SoxFan562004

every now and then the Hawk says something worth listening too, it was about Halladay and he said (paraphrasing here a little) 25-40 years ago you never traded a good position player who will give you around 30 hr and around 100 rbis for a guy who is going to give you 20+ wins as a starter (if someone remember the exact numbers he said please post). I think generally I agree with him. For me, especially with how well Gavin, MB and Danks have pitched recentally, I would be hesitant to support a trade that depleted the farm system and/or Alexei for Doc at this point

QUOTE (daa84 @ Jul 10, 2009 -> 09:26 AM) this is exactly right. I'll frankly always disagree with people like bearsox who insist swisher is a "terrible" baseball player. Is swisher is a star? hell no. Is he a decent major leaguer? Yes. And could we use a decent major leaguer in CF right now instead of Dwise and brian Anderson? Absolutely, and IMO the "blind swisher hate" comes from people who can't even admit that. Regardless of what your opinions of him are you must admit that KW got a horrendous return for him. When you get a guy a who was DFAd 1 month into hte season, a guy with a 10+ ERA in charlotte and a minor league reliever (albeit a promising one) its bad value for a guy who will end the season with 20-25 HR and a .360 obp. Good post. I'm sure people can read a few of my posts and think I have blind love for Swisher, while that's not true, I think the Sox would be a better team with him than without him this year. Now, we can argue about his contract, and after what Dunn and Abreu signed for, I lean towards the camp that maybe dumping him wasn't the worst idea, however, to call him a terrible base ball player is wrong IMO. First, he was playing a new regular position of CF, which has some effect on a player. Also, I'm going to give some evil stats here, so please stop reading if you're not a fan, if not I'll save some people the regular responses... baseball is not played on paper I want to see it with my eyes My grand daddy didn't need no OBP or OPS stats aren't everything I'll take the opinion of a one eyed peg legged scout over some fancy numbers derp der derp... (Please, don't label me as a stat head either, i think there's many things, especially fielding, that need to be scouted on film or in person, but stats should be considered important and a great way to get value on some players, and I'm just having some fun with people who hate stats) OK, his career clutch stats aren't horrible and if memory serves me right he his at least one walk off or clutch home run for the Sox last year (it was at home, I can't remember the details). http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...=Career&t=b Also, in his career, and especially in 08, he hit really well at the Cell http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...ar=2008&t=b He also takes a lot of pitches and has a good career OBP, which outside of Thome and when Q isn't playing, the Sox lack. That's crucial to me because generally BPs around the league suck, and the more pitches seen the quicker they're gotten into. BearSox, you do a lot of posting on Future sox board, especially around the draft. Baseball is so much more than a handful of ABs in certain situations. For Mitchell you didn't like the pick initially, then slammed him for one AB (I believe his first televised one against a LHP) then came around after the WS was over. Baseball is a game of failure and to hand pick a few ABs isn't fair to the player, you have to look at the players body of work. I think you're a good poster who contributed a lot of good knowledge to the draft because you took the time to read scouting reports a lot of people didn't and passed that knowledge along, but I think you were unfair to Mitchell during the beginning of the draft and Swisher. Does that make me right? Absolutely not and what makes this board fun! daa84 is right when he says Swisher isn't a star, but he's a solid player (maybe better off in the NL because he can jump from corner OF to 1b and give you decent D at either position) that had a bad year with the Sox and is getting trashed on this board. Not all games have clutch situations, you need a solid roster to help you get you "easy" wins during the season and I think Swisher can help.

If you have to take Wells, then I think he may go to and the Jays would be willing to send him to the NYY or Bos. In the long run they might figure they're better off with the money from Wells and the players they get. I don't see many teams who can take on both those contracts. Maybe LAA too.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 07:08 PM) Colon 3 ip 1 h 0 r 0 k so far. I'd like to see a few strikeouts, but considering he hasn't pitched for a while the results look decent. Hopefully he's throwing more than 88 and has an off speed pitch to go with it. Now its 4 ip with 1 hit. Didn't Contreras do the same thing in Charlotte. Maybe lightning can strike twice. Nah. yeah, but there's a little more luxury with Colon. The Count came back and has been great, so the Sox are fortunate to have 4 solid SPs right now, Colon would just have to be a 5th starter.

Good series and over the last 10 games have gained 2 games on Tigers and Minny. I just want somebody from the org to come out and say something along the lines of "f the Twins and their ballpark, we've come in here scared before, no more." Instead it will be more of the same I'm afraid from Ozzie and Hawk

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 9, 2009 -> 03:10 PM) I normally am not a big Cubs basher, but has anyone seen this? Seriously, Soriano's prima donna act is hilarious. He's sucked all year, and apparently still requires 24 hour notice if he's not playing, because he can then come to the game NOT ready to play. LOL and they still have a LONG time and a lot of money on that contract

she's attractive, not mad hot, Erin still owns that network. Also, that show is TERRIBLE it is brutal, I gave it a couple of chances and it is unwatchable.

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templa...8&zoneid=13 Cro Cop cancelled his fight against Mighty Mo in DREAM and Dos Santos is saying he's his next opponent at 103

Another solid win and pitching was good again! Alexei really starting to hit, love to see him take it the opposite way every now and then, keep the pitchers honest. Box score on MLB.com had attendance as 26,772, considering how crappy the weather was all day today, that's a solid number

FWIW, ESPN and MLBN seem to like the Phillies as a good fit. Even though JP said he would listen to all offers, most think he would be hesitant to move him to NYY or Bos. MLBN said that the Giants have interest

Soto suffered an oblique strain during BP and is at a hospital getting an MRI, no timetable yet.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:59 PM) And I am not disputing that. What I am disputing is when every single fan says the economy the economy the economy. All KW said was that their numbers have been down this year and it could preclude them from making a big acquisition. Why is that so offensive to people? It's the truth. Honestly, this organization goes beyond the call of duty to put a competitive team on the field. Much more so than it's fan base supports it economically. To seem offended by these comments is just another example of our fanbase being an angry, defensive, and stubborn group. That is all I am saying. I see your point, I just don't think KW should have said it due to the beating may are taking in this economy. I 100% agree that this org has done a great job being competative and what they have done with the farm system the last year has been awesome. Although, judging attendance trends in the past, pure hypothetical, if the Sox add Halladay or another big name tomorrow they get a bump in attendance. I think in this division the Sox will stick around all year and attendance will be down from last year, but not at the level it is right now

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:47 PM) I think so, because if he dominates the bigger, stronger Alves it'll be a lot more impressive than dominating the much smaller Penn. Fitch and the third Hughes fight were his best performances so far IMO. Serra was impressive too but Serra at his best is probably a second-tier 155'er, just under the BJ/Florian/Maynard/Diego/Sherk/Edgar group. Remember Alves actually walks around as a small HW (206+) and on fight day is going to be well over the MW limit (I think Meltzer actually had him at 199 before the Hughes fight). Alves is a big dude. I think GSP is going to take him down repeatedly and dominate him, and if he does that it'll send the message that he can beat some top-level MW's, as Alves could comfortably fight at MW and still not be undersized if he felt like it. Alves has to keep this standing, if not it will be a GSP clinic. The one way I could see it turning out positive for Alves is if he manages to keep it on the feet and lays in some of those demonic leg kicks and hampers GSP early, outside of that I agree with you that GSP rolls

QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 08:17 PM) Sam Bowie wasn't a bust, but he was drafted ahead of Michael Jordan. and just crippled by injuries. He would have always had a black mark because of the Jordan thing, but if he stayed healthy he likely would have had a very good to great NBA career.

QUOTE (Jimbo's Drinker @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:49 PM) I think by now you know to never get obsessed with White Sox minor leaguers. Odds are they will be dealt. just wait, knowing KW a top guy or two will go before the deadline or in the offseason

he is awesome and consistent. People rag on that contract, but I think it was fine. He and MB will get statutes at some point

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:45 PM) I'm not disputing the poor performance and the bad weather. What my argument is is that Sox fans are using the economy for an excuse when it isn't the reason fans are going to less games. It's just one that seems more justifiable. it's a mix, I don't think the economy is 100% the reason. I think they will draw well if they continue to play better, Q comes back healthy and throw in the Bos and NYY series. However, for me the economy has cost me money in and health insurance. I got a nasty infection and had to pay out of pocket for the doctors visit and some meds, that cost me a Sox game... also have 2 friends who are bros and in the same union, they are working 20-30 hours a week when they were working 40+ last year, my brother-in-laws company cut down hours and may close a branch of their company (luckily not his), my dad is a computer consultant and the company he consults for (located on the south side and big number of Sox fans) had consultants take 1 week of unpaid vacation and cut their hourly rate and employees had to take 2 weeks of unpaid vacation... I can go on and on about personal experiences I know of people being hit by the economy on their day to day pay, not just 401ks or investements. It's a mix of reasons, but the economy is certainly one of them

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:39 PM) Looks like tomorrow could be the official day. excellent, he needs baseball reps. Huge hat tip to the Sox org for addressing the farm system the last year or so. It was such a black hole, now there's real promise coming through.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:34 PM) I'm talking about the general lack of knowledge the average White Sox fan has about the team. This is due, as I have argued in the past several times before, to the fact that Chicago beat writers, at least those that cover baseball, are absolutely brutal. They do not do their homework and it shows in their reporting. There are probably 25-50 posters on this website alone that are more knowledgeable about the White Sox organization than our beat writers are, and this isn't a well-paying job for those posters! Our fanbase might be more apt to support the team if it actually understood the position the team was in, why it was doing what it was doing, why we had no leadoff hitter, why Corky Miller is the backup catcher, etc. There are reasonable answers for these questions, it's just that no one bother to give them to the fanbase. It's unfortunate. I do agree with you that the media has completely glossed over the fact that the Sox have completely done a 180 on their farm system and that they're playing out some of the larger contracts. I have posted many times before, especially when everyone was trying to say the Peavy deal was being done only for the short term. However, the economy is crippling people and stepping away from the economy, this team had bad players on it and was playing like crap until the last 2-3 weeks, that had a big effect on attendance.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:25 PM) I'm sorry, some of you may certainly have been affected significantly by the economic downturn, but you will not convince me that that is the reason for the drop in attendance. It's not an actual change in earnings. It's an attitude. The fans are not happy with this team, they know fewer and fewer players from the WS team, their are probably lesser company season ticket packages that were purchased, etc. But there is still PLENTY of money in the City of Chicago and the suburbs to support this team at a higher clip. It's being proven year in and year out on the Northside. This is just another instance of White Sox fans being less than educated about the team and it's players, and being whiny and stubborn. Could you explain this? This team had Wise leading off and as the starting CF, Corky Miller as a backup catcher, a wing and a prayer 4 and 5th starter and haven't played very well at home all year. They've just started playing better with The Count working his stuff out in the minors, Gavin and Danks turning it around and Beckham coming up. There was very little to be excited about this team for a long time, and they were playing like it.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:19 PM) And they do go see them 8 miles north. I understand the demographics of the two teams in Chicago, but from the way you describe things, Dick, it certainly doesn't seem to follow on the North side from what I can tell... well, at the risk of being labled an overreacting Sox fan or something along those lines, the Cubs flatout have a bigger fan base, especially in the business world. The White Sox are not on the same level as the Yankees (nobody is) the Red Sox, Cubs and another team or two.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:19 PM) Attendance is down like 4,000 a game from 2008 right now, and if we continue to remain in the race, I'd bet by the end of the year the drop per game is even less than that. Fact is, there are a couple/few thousand people a night who aren't going to games this year because they can't afford it right now. That's a fact, not an excuse. it wouldn't make up for the 4,000 a game, but didn't one of the Tigers game count as a zero attendance?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:17 PM) I'm sorry, but I really just don't buy into this. I think people are going waaaayyy too far in crying about this economy. Sure, the economy is bad. Sure, people are losing their jobs. Sure, people lost money in the stock market. But honestly, how many of us here have had their lives changed in the past 18 months so significantly so that we can no longer afford to go to White Sox games? It's like a massive social excuse for everything bad that happens to people now...the economy, the economy, the economy. While it's certain some people have had their lives significantly changed, whether it be through losing their jobs, losing some of their 401k, etc., this has not been such a great disaster that 95% of our fans cannot continue to support the team as they always have. are you kidding? I hate complaining about my problems, but I have been effected by the economy to the point where it would be hard for me to go to the typicall 10-15 Sox games I go to every year.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:15 PM) The state of Illinois has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country. People are hurting. If they are only going to go to one or two games all season, why wouldn't they pick Boston or the Yankees, they are far more interesting than a Manny-less Dodger team? Or why not save a lot of money and see the Tigers or Twins in a divison match up that means a little more? Whoever priced the game is trying to live off the 59 WS. They already celebrated that in 2005. If people were really that interested in the Dodgers they can go see them 8 miles north every season. good point about those two series, those will likely draw well and at least average out the Dodgers series

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 09:38 PM) CQ DNP today in Charlotte loss. hopefully that was scheduled and there were no setbacks.