CaliSoxFanViaSWside

What happened ?

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ May 25, 2013 -> 11:09 AM) I know that Axelrod has done the job in the rotation. However, Santiago is the better pitcher and a better option long term. I hate Santiago in the bullpen. Not because he isn't good but because he is much more valuable as a starter. I just don't understand why they don't want the better pitcher starting. You have all said it's because they need him in the bullpen. I hate that reason. He's a starter. So start him. Have someone else take the bullpen role. I hate when this organization does this. If Santiago becomes a #3 starter it's much much more valuable than him being a lights out setup man. Obviously, Santiago is not Chris Sale, but we all had these same discussions when they prematurely put Sale in the bullpen last year. Imagine Santiago as a setup guy. Not just pitching one inning but possibly more, the 6th and 7th or the 7th and 8th. It's incredibly valuable to the Sox pen . I still have hope the Sox can compete this year. If it doesn't happen every one will get their wish to see Santiago starting. It's going to take a few months to determine . He doesn't have to start now just as Sale didn't have to start then. If you don't understand what the Sox are trying to do after I have repeatedly clarified it I don't know what else I can do. It's all about maxing Ax's value now . Might not work out . Ax might crap the bed , but with Floyd hurt and Danks just returning we have a few months to see what Ax and Danks can do to increase their value.

QUOTE (beautox @ May 25, 2013 -> 02:49 AM) My frustration with this situation as a sox fan is we've seen this organization make a similar mistake in the past with McCarthy back and forth between the rotation and the pen. Santiago is even more talented than Brandon ever was and if we're building for the future he needs to get stretched out in a similar fashion to Sale. Its also frustrating watching the sox front office this past offseason not move Floyd before he became a sunk cost and seeing what we had in both Dylan and Hector. Everything that you said (erased most of it for space sake ), I like. I'd rather get excited about the Sox future than think about tearing it apart. 5 strong in starters is incredibly good. Even in hindsight you can't say what happened with Brandon McCarthy hurt his career just because he hasn't become what we thought he might. It's also easy now to say Santiago has more talent than BMac . Santiago 's future looks good but we don't know if it will happen as is the case with so many young pitchers. The Sox really had no idea what they had in Ax. Most on the board hated him because he didn't have "good stuff". Even now ,although he has pitched beyond expectations ,we have no idea if he can continue that. The plan is to hope he can , establish some value and go from there.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 25, 2013 -> 12:42 AM) Except when/if Axelrod fails or there's an injury, who's going to fill the spot? It would conceivably take Santiago 3 weeks or so if all he does is pitch 3-4-5 times per month like in the second half season. How is that helping him build up his arm strength and endurance for the future? If some are complaining he can't go past 5 innings...and he already did that this week against a strong Red Sox line-up or in the final week of the 2012 season...then how does sitting him in the bullpen help the franchise? Whatever they choose, it should be creating the highest possible value out of him...not the least. As far as jerking a player around....that would be fine, it this was the first time. But we've seen it with Beckham, with Viciedo, there are lots of historical examples. I really don't understand your argument. What's the hurry with Santiago ? He appears to have a live arm. 3 days rest , bullpen session and still goes 6 with 9 K's against the Red Sox. He isn't going anywhere. The Sox know what they have in him. There is no reason to have him at max value right now. But there are reasons to max Ax's value right now as I have been saying. And yes you are 100% correct about a lot of historical examples of young players being jerked around. It's called baseball . It's been done by every team for over 100 years. It's part of what happens to young players if they aren't complete studs at a given position or with the bat. And it will continue to be that way.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 24, 2013 -> 09:42 PM) It seems to me Kepp is doing a lot better of late. I would think his average is pretty good the last 10 games or so. It seems like he gets multi hit games once in a while, and of course, tonight's big hit. Since Keppinger was dropped to 7th or lower in the order on 5/14, he's batting .314/.342/.444. Also Rios hitting streak goes to 18 and Gimenez with a big 2 out RBI. Thank you Robin for finally getting him back in there against a RH. Hope we see more of it. Danks pitching decently was huge even if it was the Marlins.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 25, 2013 -> 12:10 AM) Show any evidence from 2012 (after he was demoted from closer) and early 2013 that Santiago will be used as a set-up guy... To replace Thornton? That would be ONE PLAN (to get through this year competitively). Trading Thornton and investing the money back in the team. Replacing Nathan Jones or Lindstrom with Santiago? Are they really planning to do that? Otherwise, this whole idea of young starters starting to press....how is that changed by addressing the bullpen instead of the offense/starting line-up (for example, catcher)? Axelrod is the shortest RH starter in the game of baseball and has the lowest average fastball. He's worth more to the White Sox (because of his low salary) than he is in trade return. You can't trade Axelrod and getting a starting catcher in return for him. It's just not going to happen. With a premium being placed more and more on power pitching...Axelrod is fine as the last pitcher on the roster, but he's not going to help lead your rotation to the playoffs. And he's probably going to struggle more at UCSF when the weather (and offenses) start to heat up. The White Sox already made one mistake in bringing back Floyd and not trading him when they had the opportunity. Now they're making another one by utilizing Santiago incorrectly. If they're building towards the future, then Santiago really needs to be starting for the Charlotte Knights, so he doesn't have to spend 2014 wearing down in the end...like Chris Sale in the second half of 2012. There's no evidence to show Santiago won't be a mop up guy. Not a shred. Nada zip zilch. All I'm saying and have been saying is that it makes sense. I trust the Sox will see it's a waste to have Santiago as a set up guy. I don't have the time nor the inclination to look up stats , but I'll venture to say Ax has been equally as good , if not better then most 5th starters in MLB . How tall he is or how hard he throws has nothing to do with effectiveness. He's kept us in a lot of games. Any cost controlled starter is valuable. Starting pitching is always at a premium. He might be even better in the NL. I never said the Sox could get a starting catcher for him but I did say Ax and something else could get us a needed bat. Santiago is what , 23 ? His time will come. If Axelrod is ever going to be worth anything , his time has to be now. He is 27 and in his 1st year of starting in the majors. Injuries and ineffectiveness always brings starting pitching in a pennant chase to the forefront. Maybe I am overestimating his value but you are underestimating it. However, time will tell. The decision to keep him in the rotation is sound. Too much emphasis is put on a team jerking a player around. Do you think Santiago would rather be a reliever in the majors or a starter in the minors ? If he is any kind of team player, he'll accept his role because it helps the team now and for the future if Ax can continue to do what he has been doing.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ May 24, 2013 -> 10:56 PM) ITT people actually try to defend the decision to diminish the role of a talented starter with a sub 3 ERA. Proof that some will defend anything. In the very least, we need to stop f***ing with the development of one of the most valuable and talented players in our organization. Oh well, back to having the most talented mop up man in the game. How valuable! . He won't be a mop up man. Haven't you been paying attention ? He'll be a set up guy. If not, then I would agree with your assessment. It's not really that much of a problem having too many good starters. But it is a problem not having enough competent set up guys. Young guys often pitch out of the bullpen before finding their proper place. Seeing good start after good start wasted because of hitting woes can cause a young starter , any starter for that matter to press. Maybe the Sox can turn Ax and something else into finding a bat. That's my hope , to make the team better. You put Ax in the pen and he's worthless. He keeps going as he has been ,now you got something. That is not defending anything. That is having a plan.

TWTW . This Win Twas Weird.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ May 24, 2013 -> 10:03 PM) What an absolute joke if true. However not surprising from this often clueless organization. Axelrod is an effective starter, not so good in the pen. Santiago can be effective at both. The pen needs more help than the rotation. If Ax keeps being effective he becomes a useful trade chip. I said it in a post at the beginning of the season. The Sox had to find out what they have in Axelrod. He's been better than anyone could've expected. He may not have the stuff but he's a pitcher. He knows what he's doing up there on the mound. This helps the team in 2 different ways. Santiago will get his chance to start later. I fail to see how helping the team in 2 ways is an absolute joke.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 24, 2013 -> 08:15 PM) Thankfully our manager didn't even argue the call. First thing I thought . I'm like where is Waldo ?

Replay reversals when it costs a run and in this case a win.

Angel hit a couple of bombs in spring training .

People act like they never seen relief pitchers before. There's no such thing as a perfect pen. Pitchers give up runs . Our hitting is a way bigger problem than our pitching. Crain and Reed have been very very good. Not many bullpens in MLB can boast 2 relievers who have done what they have so far. They are like 2 of the top 12 WAR relievers right now. Can't have a revolving door in the bullpen and expect any consistency. Hell can't expect any kind of consistency in most pens. Hardly a year goes by that most teams have 2 or more new relief pitchers. Angels have gone through like 22 pitchers already this year.

I'm 100% for Gimenez getting more starts. Plenty of RH pitchers . They should be a 50/50 platoon at the very least . If both keep having passed balls, I'd call that some circumstances that impact the pitching staff more than we want already.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ May 23, 2013 -> 08:54 AM) No need to brag about Veal getting sent down. I think everyone and their mother knew he doesn't belong on an MLB team and he was the guy to go. It's my party. I only see people griping . You'll see most of what I said will happen. Veal was the 1st step. Next is Santiago as a set up guy and Ax still in the rotation.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ May 22, 2013 -> 12:18 PM) My prediction. Ax stays in the rotation. Because of the Sale tendonitis, Santiago will get a start on short rest and after throwing his bullpen session. He is not in a a position to succeed. Also with Thornton and Veal shaky Santiago won't be the long man, he'll be a set up guy. Omogrosso is long relief if he can handle it. Maybe keeping Omogrosso leaves too many pitchers on the roster. I haven't bothered counting but Veal will be sent back down. It's also possible Danks gets one start and then gets sent back down for another 30 days if that's even possible without claiming another rehab stint. Help me out here.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 22, 2013 -> 07:45 PM) Couldn't disagree more. You have tomorrow off and your starting pitcher gave you 6 innings. You should be able to piece together 3 innings from your bullpen. Omogrosso had no business starting this inning. If the score was something like 5-1 going into this inning, then that's fine. While we're piling on Robin why the heck doesn't Gimenez get more starts against RH's . He only went 4/5 with a HR last time he played. And it's not so much Flower's hitting I mind but my goodness he can't catch a lick.

QUOTE (Jake @ May 22, 2013 -> 05:29 PM) We are really overreacting to the potential risk of starting Santiago today. It is sub-optimal, but really not a big deal. Those side sessions are typically thrown at a very low intensity. You wouldn't develop any soreness, for instance. Some guys won't even throw them from a mound. Actually from what I read he said he was cutting it loose it the BP session.

Santiago not in a position to succeed . Starting on short rest between starts and throwing bullpen session yesterday. If he fails it makes putting him in the bullpen easier. Would love to see him make it a hard decision for the Sox by pitching at least 5-6 good innings. Unfortunately the Sox need 7 after taxing the bullpen the last few days. Seems like a throw away game so a win to complete the sweep would be huge.

My prediction. Ax stays in the rotation. Because of the Sale tendonitis, Santiago will get a start on short rest and after throwing his bullpen session. He is not in a a position to succeed. Also with Thornton and Veal shaky Santiago won't be the long man, he'll be a set up guy. Omogrosso is long relief if he can handle it. Maybe keeping Omogrosso leaves too many pitchers on the roster. I haven't bothered counting but Veal will be sent back down. It's also possible Danks gets one start and then gets sent back down for another 30 days if that's even possible without claiming another rehab stint. Help me out here.

For those asking if Kepp ever smiles the answer is yes . http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/5/21/4353...they-have-to-be

Looking for Viciedo to continue his good OBP skills against Dubront and for PK to get 3 hits.

QUOTE (Knuckles @ May 21, 2013 -> 09:38 AM) http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heym...iday-in-chicago Would hate to see Danks in the rotation at Axe's expense. Danks won't do any better. Let Danks pitch long relief and continue to build arm strength under the watchful eye of Coop.

QUOTE (Jake @ May 21, 2013 -> 11:36 AM) It's hilarious how mad people were at the prospect of losing PK Fan favorites outweigh getting a young stud I guess. And people say Cub fans are dumb.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 21, 2013 -> 08:15 AM) Axelrod does nothing that drops your jaw, except get guys out. It would be a shame if he was dropped from the rotation. He has held his own against some very good pitchers. http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/5/21/4350...x-fifth-starter