nitetrain8601

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 04:21 PM) The polls are now coming in. It appears that you are losing the majority vote. Obviously you didn't read what I just said, so I'll slow down and say it for you again. Iiiiiiiiiiii alllllreadddy kknnooowww thhhheeiiirrr opppionnnioonnssss annnd thhouugghhttss, Iiii don'tttt need to rreeerreaadd theeem. Itttt issss a llaammme attemmppptt att baiiitttting peeerrrrrrioooddd

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 04:13 PM) See my new thread... http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=34493 Why when I've already seen what people think in here. It's stupid and a lame attempt at bait. I saw people's thoughts and I have my own. I don't need to go over them again.

Can't you see aboz, if the Sox lose, it wasn't because the other team was the better team that day, it's because someone on the White Sox is f***ing up. Hell even when we win.

I think Shingo will turn it around, but I don't know about him being as good as last year again. He needs to learn to throw that chanegup over the plate instead of in the dirt or way out of the strikezone. That's his problem. He tries to throw the fastball down the middle and not his changeup so they could just sit on the fastball and Boom the dynamite goes.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 31, 2005 -> 04:08 PM) Yeah, I never pegged Jeter as great defensively, but he doesnt make alot of mistakes, just makes the plays he should make. I always thought they should let A-rod take his spot and move his ass to 2B, but whatever. Well that's what I would do. Jeter is good, but A-Rod is better defensively. They don't want to do that though because they consider Jeter the leader and don't want him moving to accomadate an outsider.

Chavez Wells Lyle Overbay(I do realize he would be costing lots of prospects) Wagner

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 04:02 PM) Heh, it must suck when you can't just admit defeat and say you were wrong. I guess stats are pretty meaningless if your eyes are the only thing that matters when judging a player's defense. :rolly How long are you going to try to argue? Seriously, I'm trying to engage in other discussions and I've already given my thoughts, so how long does it take?? Does it stop when everyone gives you a cheer and tells you how much of a badass you are? It's getting annoying, very annoying.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 04:00 PM) No, I am not God. But MANY other posters already tried to tell you that you were wrong. Uribe is a better defensive SS than Ozuna. I'm sorry we had to break it to you. I'll wait for many of the posters to jump off the bridge so you'll do it too.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:58 PM) Jeter is so overrated defensively it makes me sick. OMG HE WON TEH GLOD GLOVE!!!11!!11!! Trust me, I hate the guy and I do think he's terribly overrated, but he's still a top 5 fielder at his position. I think of him as a Kobe Bryant. Just one guy I don't like, even if he played on my team, but I can't deny his talent.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:54 PM) You didn't say that Ozuna was a trillion times better defensively at SS than Uribe. You also didn't say that Ozuna is most definately the best fielder in the game or is vastly better than Uribe as SS. But I don't see how any of this matters though because you did in fact say that Ozuna was a better defensive SS than Uribe. You are still wrong. Thank you for sharing God. Added to list: Rodriguez Rollins

My Top defensive SS: Tejada Cabrera Renteria Jeter Vizquel Izturis Alex Gonzalez(FLA) Those come to mind right away.

Jabroni, refer to this: http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...ic=34477&st=285

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:39 PM) John Rocker/Kurt Angle has spoken and he said that Uribe is a better defensive SS than Ozuna. Still waiting for my answers.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:35 PM) What in the hell does it matter how much better Ozuna is defensively at SS than Uribe? All that matters is that you said Ozuna is a better defensive SS than Uribe. And you are wrong. Still waiting for my answers.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:33 PM) Ozuna's hitting better lately? The next time he hits a ball out of the infield, it will be a first. He's leading the world in fewest feet per hit. Ozuna was a nice story in ST and all, but he definitely hasn't carried over his hitting ability into the regular season. I like Ozuna because of his hustle and attitude, but if we have to count on him to play more than twice a week.....we're screwed. I'm not talking about the offense because I know Uribe is a better offensive player than Ozuna.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:32 PM) Ahhh, backtracking... Did I? It's not backtracking if I didn't say it, is it? Just answer those two questions, I don't want to hear anything else, just answer.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:29 PM) You never said Uribe is a butcher at SS but you are trying to say that Ozuna is a better defensive SS than Uribe. That is just plain wrong. Oh yeah, because you have seen the type of prospect he was and have seen every one of his games. Not. And again, I didn't say, Ozuna>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Uribe times a trillon. I said I think he's a better fielder. I didn't say he is most definately the best fielder in the game or is vastly better than Uribe at SS. Did I?

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:25 PM) Glad you helped your part of the debate with this spectacular gem of insight. Just finished saying I never said Uribe was butcher in the field. Find me where I said that smartasses. Also said that Ozuna is just a better fielder(didn't say how much better) and that Uribe is better suited at 2B and 3B. I guess people can't accept that.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:21 PM) If anyone is complaining about Uribe's play at SS, I don't want to know what they think about our right side of the infield. Iguchi has been solid in the field, but he has absolutely no range. PK is pretty much the same. Uribe is as good of a defensive SS as we've had here in a long time. How many times does he just boot grounders like Valentin used to? Ozuna has shown me nothing to suggest he's an above average defensive infielder. I never said he was a butcher at SS, lots of people just assume that.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:18 PM) I find it funny that everyone is agreeing with me that Uribe is a better defensive SS than Ozuna. Thanks though. By the way, is there any room left on "Crede's Crew"? I just love that .225 AVG of his! So if I bring a bunch of guys to this site and they agree with me on every point I make, am I automatically right? Stupid ass argument made by a stupid ass poster. Not suprised it came from you.

QUOTE(qwerty @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:17 PM) RF= Range Factor ((PO + A) divided by innings). ZR= Zone rating. The percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical defensive "zone," as measured by STATS, Inc. I look at zone rating before i look at range factor because alot of times players can have a good range factor due to the fact that they are in the right place at the right time. Zone rating is based on how far you go for the balls to either side of the field. Up, down, right, left... it is all included. And how do you calculate that? If you have a Scott Rolen at 3B, wouldn't your range automatically be better or automatically worse(not sure how it works) because he gets to so many balls?

And how the hell does a stat calculate such things as range? That's a stat you really can't put a number on. I do go to a ton more games than any of you do. Uribe as a 2B or 3B> Uribe as a SS. Never did I say he was a butcher at SS either(but I guess some guys like arguing to make them look tough) I said Ozuna is a better SS than Uribe.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 03:05 PM) Thanks for taking care of that ridiculous post for me. I'm still laughing at the stupidity of it. You can't just look at stats. Look at CLEE, he had no errors last year at LF. I guess he's a better fielder than Jim Edmonds. Nope, that's wrong. He can't get to as many balls as an Edmonds. Uribe wouldn't be able to get to as many balls for outs as Ozuna at SS. Sad to see you have to depend on others to come up with an argument for you. And Uribe played 2B more than any other position last year. He split time at 3B and SS and not by much. Of course his stats(which is just that) will suggest he's a great SS. I'm still laughing at the stupidity and lack of intellect in your posts.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:57 PM) LOL, so now Ozuna is a better SS than Uribe? I'm not sure I can respond because I'm laughing too hard. Once again, you are dead wrong. Defensively yes. Again, for some reason you're taking into equation the offense. When offense comes in, you don't argue positions. Ozuna is a better SS than Uribe. Uribe would be better suited for a 3B or 2B role. You were dead wrong and many people helped me prove it, so the only person you should be laughing at is yourself. There's a reason Ozuna was traded for Rentera(salary dump for potential). Ozuna is a better SS than Uribe whether you want to believe that or not.

QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ May 31, 2005 -> 02:58 PM) Leaving Marte in after the botched double play had me heated. That's what I voted for. I'm not as hard on Ozzie as most, but I definitely have a problem with his bullpen management. When Everett came in for Iguchi, I was thinking along the same lines as you are...just hit one to semi-deep to deep left, it doesn't even have to approach the warning track. Iguchi is waaay more likely to line out to an infielder or something along those lines. If people don't agree, that's fine. I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. Yeah, that was my thinking behind the Everett situation. Iguchi is more a line drive person. If Hermy did indeed tell Ozzie he couldn't go, then why was he continuing to warm up after Marte was brought in?