nitetrain8601

QUOTE(Middle Buffalo @ May 5, 2005 -> 10:43 AM) Better hope it's unseasonably warm in October. If not, front row seats fopr me. Wouldn't be surprised if there was.

QUOTE(CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ May 5, 2005 -> 02:04 AM) Oh i can feel the love so much I completely avoid posting on this topic. Against my better judgement I will say that both sides have valid arguments. There are so many variables as to why attendance is the way it is. My forte is not racking my brain to list them. One side says " you're b****ing about attendance but I can b**** all I want about the weather and who the Sox are playing ". I could have swore the reason we go to home games is to see the home team win. Right now the Sox are an attraction in and of themselves. If that isn't reason enough to go to a game I don't know what is. Another good point.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ May 4, 2005 -> 10:28 PM) Did you enjoy the cell tonight?? Short lines I guess. Got there about an hour late because of my Math Final.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ May 4, 2005 -> 03:15 PM) What's pathetic? The fact that we had an awesome attendence for the month of April -- better than last year -- even when the month included such huge attractions like Detroit, Cleveland, and Seattle? Sheesh. b**** b**** b****. And, I just read SS2K's post. I think it's damn impressive, the best April attendence since '94, for a month that didn't even include the likes of Boston, New York, the Cubs. We're going to draw well when we play those teams -- and once summer hits, people are out of school, work, etc -- this won't even be discussed anymore, I guarantee it. Or gaurantee -- one of the two. :banghead Yeah, because back in 94 we were off to a better start than we have now. I forgot about that. Not! When you have the best team in baseball, breaking records and off to its best start in its history(not since 94 as many of you guys like to use that number) then it is pretty damn pathetic.

Again, honestly, for a team that is off to the best start in it's history, this is pretty damn pathetic and if JR moved the team, I wouldn't be able to say he's dumb for doing so. I don't see many other fans making excuses for not going. Like sox-r-us said, Seattle draws alot and they have nothing but cub-like fans there. Simply no excuse at all. And yes, I do go to alot of games and for the 50th time, I plan on going to 60+ this season.

Oh geez, if they showed all those highlights, it would literally take up half of the show. Everyone wants coverage and there is so little to go around. They talked about us breaking the record, they talked about us winning, they showed us going ahead, get over it. If you don't like it, don't watch the show. Duh.

Yeah, they can't ban him from the NBA like that. I'm sure a lawsuit would come.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ May 3, 2005 -> 10:11 PM) Right, he's definitely better then some guys who got ludicrous contracts this offseason(Benson and Milton) the problem with signing him to a long term contract before the season is Mr. Mccarthy. Brandon's going to be in the rotation next year and some people were thinking that, that could have been at the expense of Jon. The sox have a lot of starting pitching options and decisions to make this upcoming offseason, should be interesting. McCarthy might not pitch until 2 years from now when El Duque and Contreras' contracts are up. We might keep Contreras for way cheaper money, but I see El Duque retiring after his contract. Insert Brandon McCarthy there. But BMac isn't having such a great season in Charlotte now. No need to rush him for this year or next.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ May 3, 2005 -> 10:06 PM) If you mean move the team then...... :fyou :fyou :fyou If not many people are supporting it in a huge market, then there is no point. You could just watch them on tv. Seriously, there is no point for JR to have a team here if no one is going for a first place team off to it's best start in it's history. You could still watch them on tv(I don't mean you in particular) and it wouldn't change a thing except you would actually see people there. Honestly, Cub fans don't make excuses and they are the most dumbest fans you'll find on the face of the earth. I think it may be time for JR to move.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ May 3, 2005 -> 08:55 PM) Were you in Chicago at all today? It was damned cold. Definately not worth spending that much money for. I live in Chicago and if it wasn't for my last final tommorow, I would've been there.

Billy Wagner. If not Shingo.

QUOTE(BuehrleTheAce @ May 3, 2005 -> 09:15 PM) IMO we're still winning. Ugly yes, sometimes, but still winning. Many of these guys are "temperature" hitters, meaning when the weather gets warmer so do they. A-Row has proved that throughout his short career and Pauly does too. Take a look at their summer numbers compared to their early numbers. As I mentioned in another thread, Pauly typically slumps in May then heats up in June, July, and August. A-Row did the same thing last year, but he was a month later. By the time summer comes along, the power of Pauly and A-Row will be on display and the Big Hurt will be back in the lineup. Depending on what Everett and Dye do in the intervening months, I think our offense will be just fine. If PK is supposed to slump in May, I'd hate to see it because his April was god-awful.

It was 42 degrees and on my weather tracker from weatherchannel.com doesn't suggest winds blowing from the lake. Sorry, that's a poor excuse a 1st place team after April shouldn't draw less than 20,000 fans. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. Now if there isn't anyone there tommorow, then most White Sox fans should not b**** or whine about the White Sox and shouldn't have say in what the GM or manager or whoever is doing because simply, you are not paying for the product at all. Therefore, you don't deserve to criticize it. Can't believe some people suggest the White Sox should get more seating to make up for the loss of the 8 rows of the UD. We can't even fill the ballpark now, there's no point in wasting money in putting in more seats.

Actually he took note of the condition and took note of who they were playing. He said, "I understand it's 42 degrees in Chicago and that they are playing the KC Royals, but god, show up. You have a 1st place team and something exciting to watch." I agree with him. We finally have a winning team which so many people complained as the main reason why they haven't showed up to games, and they are drawing less than last year so far. People show up. I didn't show up today, but I plan on showing up tommorow and the following game. Like I said, 60+games.

^^Because the offense is sucking. We are worst in the league in BA with runners in scoring position and probably one of the worst hitting teams hitting for BA. When you're playing small ball, you need to get guys with good BA and OBP. So far it isn't working and PK just isn't doing anything, but turning into Sammy Sosa of last year. Hitting into nothing but DP's. I say you package PK and Jermaine Dye for a legit guy(either at RF or 1B and teach Carl how to play 1B if you have to). We do need power. Hell trade back for Carlos Lee if you need to. Do something though.

Boom! ...goes the dynamite.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan99 @ May 3, 2005 -> 01:02 PM) As I've already stated, we have 0 chance at Mike Conley, forget about him. And you are greatly underrating Scheyer, if you think he is going to be Sean Harrington. Better than Harrington, but a similar player. Okay, let's put it this way, I think he'll be JJ Reddick. I just don't see the Illini getting Scheyer. I hope I'm wrong because he would be good for the program, I just don't see it happening.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ May 2, 2005 -> 10:21 PM) Most of the time there is a reason that these guys don't play much. I learned this after watching those guys play those few garbage minutes. The guys are just lost. Milicic looked god awful his rookie year when he went in, the guy couldn't dunk much less shoot or play defense. Bender has been around for quite some time and he still looks lost most of the time he's in. Outside of the few truly elite guys the high schoolers just aren't even close to ready. Some of these guys are starting to look more prepared like J.R. Smith, Josh Smith, and Al Jefferson, but I take that as more of an indication of the state of the NBA than how ready these guys really are. Back to the main topic. I really hope that Illinois can build on this commitment and get some of the bigger guys. It's kind of depressing seeing Duke come in and get guys like Dockery, Thompson, and Livingston, or Kansas with Wright, or UNC with Frasor. They gotta keep at least a few of the elite guys to stay in Illinois while stealing one or two from the other states. Semrau is a start, although I'm not sure he's quite the type of immediate impact guy they need. Rush would be huge even if he is a one and done, and Scheyer or some of the other 2006 prospects would really help a ton. I really don't think they can stay on top of the Big Ten every year unless they start getting guys like Cook or Brown again. Bender hasn't played because he's been injury proned ever since they tried to start playing him. Milicic is a Euro. He's pretty damn good and people were saying that he could be the best player out of that entire draft. Fact is, Larry wasn't going to play him, or whoever they brought in because he hates developing rookies and he also knew how long he was going to be there for(he does make short stops and tries to win right away instead of developing the best players on his team). Brown plays only ready players(established vets). He's the same guy that passed on Dirk Nowitzki. He didn't even play Larry Hughes he he took over those guys more than 20 minutes a game. Brown has been known as a guy who just hates to play rookies, regardless of how good they are. Darko is going to turn into a very fine player once he's not being coached by Brown. Think Dirk Nowitzki with defense. Anyway, I hope the Illini gets Marques Johnson, Thaddeus Young, and Mike Conley(or Sherron Collins) next year. I think Scheyer is going to be more like Sean Harrington was for the Illini a couple of years back. Johnson has more potential and is as good as Scheyer without the sexy appeal because he's not from the state.

QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ May 3, 2005 -> 11:57 AM) I think Viz stats are a touch misleading, he got lit up in that Cleveland game where he had to pitch a long time since he was the last reliever. I don't think he's the greatest of all time, but I think he's serviceable

Story seems like a reach. I've worked at the Cell and I know things don't go down like that. Everything will be taken care of.

It's on right now. Talking about Ozzie Guillen. Whole show is dedicated to him and the Sox.

QUOTE(Nokona @ May 2, 2005 -> 08:46 PM) Semrau + Scheyer = Sexy Please god. Please let it happen. I keep hearing that Marques Johnson is a better player than Scheyer from guys on the Illini board. They say while Scheyer is a great player himself, the reason why so many people want him at Illinois is because he's from inside the state, but Johnson has better potential and a better array of skills. I personally don't care as long as the Illini do great in recruiting. I want Thadeus Young if Brandon Rush doesn't come.

BS actually. When someone else has complained about officiating, no one has said anything. JVG does it and they screw him over. I could maybe see 10,000, but not 100,000.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ May 2, 2005 -> 07:56 PM) I know Duhon was good as a high school player, but very few had him as the number one overall player. Miles was locked into that spot for some time. I don't recall anything having him going in the top 10 after his freshmen year. If that is really the case than he is a moron for not going and that's another story, but I never remember anything saying that. Also, the first article you quote states that he would be a 5-10 pick IF he could run the offense and be a team leader. Also, Katz never said he would go in the top 5, but he said it was in the realm of possibility. Katz isn't an NBA draft guy anyways, I would read more into it if the pro scouts or writers on ESPN had said that. It was also written before the season, speculating that he would have a great year. I never argued that he didn't have that kind of potential, but he never reached it. Both of those quotes are merely speculating on his potential, and aren't draft prep articles that say he would definitely go in the top 10 as you seem to claim that they are. I also don't really see how you can claim that you can see that all of those guys would fail. Bender wasn't really any different than Garnett, he was a big guy with excellent ball handling and shooting skills that dominated the All-star games and was a top 5 pick. Miles was an incredibly athletic player who looked like he could dominate with more experience, much like T-Mac, but it never happened. Stevenson fits in that category too, he wasn't that different than Kobe. Harrington was tough to say that about too, he had a ton of talent coming out. These guys were all extremely talented, but for some reason they never fufilled their potential. It's hard to predict that kind of stuff because most of the high school prospects are extremely raw. You don't know if the ridiculously athletic swingman will ever be able to create his own shot, or if that post guy will develop the moves. Yes, Kobe was an All-star in his second year, although he still wasn't even a starter on his own team. He's one of the handful of guys that produced early in his career, he's basically the only other one besides the one I mentioned that produced in his first two years. You're missing the main point of my argument. The point is that the vast majority of these guys AREN'T more qualified than the veterans that they are taking roster spots from. Teams draft these players based on their potential, not their current ability to contribute to the team. This is why the players' association has been somewhat receptive to the age limit. Most of these guys ride the bench for at least their first two years, making little to no impact on their team. Those spots could be used better on a veteran that is actually ready to compete in the NBA while the guys that still need some time to develop stay in college to do that. Teams are somewhat forced into taking these guys in the current situation. The NBA has stripped the college ranks to the point that when the senior class comes up the top 15 guys are gone, so they have to go deeper into the underclassmen pool to find the future all-stars. GM's wouldn't have to do that with an age limit because the top players will still be there. The players would also be able to develop their skills more against better competition, meaning they'd be less likely to come into the NBA and ride the bench for their first two years. The age limit would improve the quality of play both in college and in the pros, because there would be fewer guys entering the league that aren't ready to play at all like Edi or Darko. Bender was going in a situation where they had just got Jermaine O'Neal, got Al Harrington from the year before, and got Ron Artest. Also Indy didn't play him right away. Coaches decision, for whatever reason. Leon Smith had documented problems in high school. Miles was never ever a jumpshooter. He was a skinny kid who just drove. Never developed a jumpshot and didn't use effort to play D. The fact that Jordan hyped him up to be drafted higher than he should've been. DeShawn Stevenson was just given bad advice as he wasn't a sought after player in the NBA. Everyone knew he could score, that's it. I even remember watching a Utah game where they were talking about this exact thing. Harrington hasn't been a bust. Look at his numbers. He's been pretty good actually. Kwame played weak competition in Georgia and that was always the knock on him. Georgia I believe was the worst ranked state for basketball his senior year which is when he dominated. He has the tools, but he doesn't have the mindset. I guess you could say you couldn't predict him. Lenny Cooke is one guy I will say that I couldn't predict because it seemed he had a good grasp. Ndubi Ebi was a guy drafted just for the sake of developing because of KG and Olwakandi(spose to be good) and Kedrick Perkins was the same way. Lots of these guys are already pre-determined by the NBA coaches and teams that they will start off on the bench. Anyway, we don't know who's ready or not if it's already in GM's minds that when they draft a HSer that they'll sit on the bench for the year. Tons of teams are doing that. Blame coaches and GM's for not playing the guys right away and not letting them "earn their check."

http://nbadraft.net/profiles/chrisduhon.htm talks about him being a 5-10 pick and falling no lower than a 20 pick after his freshman year. http://espn.go.com/ncb/columns/katz_andy/1267426.html There's more if you want them. That particular link also talks about how he was probably the best pure PG the ACC ever produced and how he had a 4:1 A/TO ratio. That's an article about Marcus Taylor and Chris Duhon. Many sites say Duhon and Taylor were 1-2 and vice versa in many scouts eyes. And of course, guys who only have realistic shots of making it go. Diop was going to be a bust going through college or not because of injury concerns. Never played a full year of basketball without getting hurt prior to NBA, why would he start when he was playing in a more physical league?? Most of the guys who didn't make it you could pretty much predict it. And BTW, I remember Kobe being an All-Star in his second season. You may want to check that up. Your whole argument is that well veterans, even though they may be lesser players, deserve to get paid the millions over better qualified people simply because they are veterans. You also need to take into account that the teams are drafting them, the players aren't drafting themselves. Also coaches usually think it's best to put a guy on the bench and not play him at all. Look at Larry Brown. Darko played pro and he didn't even get 20 minutes per game in his 2nd year yet.