whitesoxfan101

We always hear about how much Coop preaches movement over velocity. But maybe in the case of Jenks, we need to just say quit with the movement crap and throw your fastball and hook with as much violence as you can and try to blow people away. It certainly looked like that is what happened last night, and at any rate, hopefully Bobby keeps throwing like that. Because althought it was just the Mariners last night, I can't even remember the last time his stuff looked that overwhelming, and nobody would have hit him. If Jenks can pitch well, our bullpen is just epic stuff, so lets hope he found something last night.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 03:29 PM) I read the whole story, im not even sure why it would be taken down. If anything taking it down will result in more negative publicity than just leaving the story up. Strange I agree with you, but ESPN has proven not to be the best at understanding things like how negative publicity works in recent years.

Pee in a stall instead of at a urinal? Only suggestion I can think of.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 03:18 PM) Theyve got money, a new ballpark, and great attendance. They invest well in the draft and are able to go out and get impact players (Cabrera) to help their team. But all they have is a whopping one wild card playoff berth in the last 22 years. And even that year, they blew it in the World Series to a team that won 83 games.

I hope you're right. I'm not looking for Ted Williams or Joe Morgan here, just an occasional walk. Even if he just walks enough to get a 30 or 40 point split in the BA and OBP like Alexei does, it'll work IMO due to what I think should be very good power and solid ability to hit for average.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 03:13 PM) None of us Jordan supporters can really criticize TOO much considering he used to do s*** like this too (and worse) and the media more or less protected him. Oh I agree, I don't care what LeBron is doing in Vegas. I'm just saying ESPN is naturally going to try and keep stories like this on the down low because of their investment in the league. Which is why it can't be taken seriously in terms of it's sports journalism.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 03:11 PM) The Tigers have had higher payrolls than ours since 2008, and they haven't done anything since 2006. They aren't particularly well run. I'd certainly say we're better run than they are.

I'm not interested in if Q or Dunn is better because I wouldn't trade Q for Dunn anyways right now.

That's what happens when you're in bed with the leagues. ESPN "journalism" really can't be taken seriously since it's a sports network that's in bed with most of the people/leagues/organizations/assocations it covers.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 03:02 PM) Because zero teams in major league baseball have done it for the last five years even? The standard is making the playoffs in baseball. Once you get there, it's largely a crap shoot because you're taking teams built to be the best in their division for 162 games and seeing who is better for 3 of 5 or 4 of 7. In that sense, the Twins have been vastly superior to us in KW's time. Even the Indians have as many division titles (although I'd obviously put us well above them due to '05 and overall record). Winning the World Series is the ultimate goal, but the idea is to make the playoffs as often as possible and take your chances after that since it's largely luck once you get there, and the Twins do a much better job of that than us. And the fact that we found the perfect storm in '05 doesn't change that.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 02:59 PM) Applying a ridiculous standard of never having any down years isn't any better. You realize according to your own standards, no team in any division of baseball would be good enough, because exactly zero have been in the top two in their division every single year in the last 5 years even. I don't see how it's ridiculous. The Twins have won 5 of the last 8 AL Central Titles, largely with a payroll below ours.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 02:56 PM) I really wonder if Ozzie could talk him into coming here? Probably. I think part of the reason he'd like to stay is his daughter, and obviously he wouldn't have to move to play for the Sox. I can't see a deal like that happening though.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 02:52 PM) Being born in 1973 into a Sox family, I agree 100%. The quote on your very own signature shows that the standard has been raised due to 2005, not only by the fans but by the people in the organization. Pretty good with occasional divisional titles and obviously the one trump card of 2005 is not bad by any means, but the expectations here are high now. And I think KW and Oz would be the first people to admit that.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 02:51 PM) The amazing thing is that Viciedos OPS is .755 because of his zero walks. Which is the one thing about him that bothers me.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 02:44 PM) I still would let them have more division tiles without a World Series title. If we are close to them every year but have more World Series trophies, I'll live with that. The ultimate goal is the World Series and as long as we are in the hunt and win a few division titles in the meantime, it works for me. Oh I'd rather have 2 divisions and a World Series than 5 divisions and that's it, no doubt about it. I just think their consistency of being in the playoffs is a sign that overall, they are run better. I think being the best for 162 consistently is more a sign of skill, where as being the best for it and then winning a World Series (particularly when you are like the White Sox, who aren't in the playoffs all that frequently) is a mix of skill and luck.

QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 02:40 PM) Pitino testified that he had sex with the woman "very briefly." http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/bask....html?eref=sihp For some reason, I find that amusing. Probably because Rick Pitino admitting he's a one minute man is pretty funny.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 02:36 PM) One thing worth considering though...even though KW came up through the org, for the first year/couple years after he took over, he was dealing with the hand he was dealt. That said, I don't see how you can argue that there has been a better run organization than the Twins over the past decade, in terms of doing more with limited and scarce financial resources. There's a reason we keep saying we want to play more like them. Exactly. I don't care where we stack up in relationship to the rest of baseball, I care where we stack up in relationship to the Twins. Because that's our competition every year just to make the playoffs in the first place.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 02:30 PM) I think if you look around the league they are a fairly successful combination as well. Outside of the Yankees and Boston has there been another combo with more wins or titles? Well see this is where the argument gets interesting. To me, the Twins have been a more succesful team than us in KW's time since they've won the division five times and we've won it twice (no wild cards for either side, only AL Central wild card in that time was Detroit in '06). Obviously we've got the trump card of the World Series in '05, but I'm not sure the fact that we found the right playoff combination in '05 (which I think doing is more luck than skill, considering it's teams that got there being great for 162 trying to be better in a best of 5 or 7) overcomes the Twins resume overall, even though it is a trump card.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 02:25 PM) I think alot of the issue is that many people here have really only known the Sox management with Ozzie and KW. Right or wrong this is their point of view. They haven't lived through other GM's or managers, so it's only natural to do the grass is greener scenario. Many of the same posters have been tearing other GM's apart for recent trades. Most new GM's are unknown quantities and you aren't sure what you will get. It will be interesting on what the opinions will be once KW and Ozzie are gone. Having lived through Sox GM's and mangers since the 70's, I'm only too happy to see KW and Ozzie here. I can't think of a better GM or manager the Sox have had in 35 years. I will not argue the point that KW and Oz are the best GM/manager combo the Sox have had in the past 4 decades or so. But just because we have a long previous history of ineptitude at those spots doesn't mean we should give the current guys a pass because they aren't terrible as well.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 02:13 PM) Seattle took 3/4 from the Twins earlier this year. And the Twins lost 2 of 3 at home to Cleveland starting this stretch too. The only thing the Twins have done a lot better than us in is divisional games, and most of our divisional games were early on when we absolutely sucked.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 02:06 PM) Jones has an OPS+ of 98 on the season and a .753 OPS. Against LH pitchers in particular, he has an .853 OPS. Furthermore, he's been a plus fielder in both CF and RF, despite limited time there (he's been a negative fielder in LF, but he's played a total of 10 games there, as opposed to 35 in RF). Yes, he's all or nothing, but he's pretty much been exactly the kind of guy you'd want on your bench and rotating through the DH as the right-handed partner. Strong on defense, and especially against LHP, not a liability with the bats. Yet he has 58 AB vs. LHP and 152 vs. RHP. I understand you see a lot more RHP in a season, but that difference should not be that high.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 02:09 PM) I wouldn't be surprised if he waives it to go to a team that is more in contention, but I could see him not wanting play in CA for 2 months with a team that's 8.5 out of first and basically no shot at the wild card. Exactly, he'd be moving out west for 2 months basically for nothing, only to have to move again after the season. If he turned down a trade to Texas or something, I'd be more surprised.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 02:08 PM) Really, I'd hesitate an awful lot unless I had another option for both this year and long-term as my 5th starter. I still think you lose more wins replacing Hudson with Torres than you gain by replacing Kotsay with Dunn. I'm not sure I'd give up Hudson in a Dunn deal since it's a rental, but at this point I have to disagree with the bolded point.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 02:03 PM) What is with the Twins? Is it that they were constructed to just be better than anybody in the Central? Year after year they are champs. Their early exits in the playoffs never seem to demoralize them or take away their momentum. They've been on fire since your guy Bobby Jenks blew the big hairy one against them in the finale of the series there. Well that, and they're playing some weak competition right now.

I agree that the timing of this thread is wrong, as I said in my first post in here, you can't be firing people when in first place. But if we fail to make the playoffs this year, that's an 80 percent failure rate for KW in 10 years (I consider any year not in the playoffs a failure for us, which considering the way our organization talks every year, seems fair) and such a ratio will lead to people calling for his head naturally. And Ozzie is always going to have his critics between some of his bizarre commentary and bizarre in game managing decisions.