spiderman

What is the national perspective (guys like Callis, Goldstein, etc.) on how the White Sox are doing? They seem to have gotten good value with the 1st round pick, but what about the rest?

I think he'll be in the .230-.245 range - I assume that will lead to an increase in HR's so hopefully this will get him back near 30 HR (and that is still a little of a let down playing half your games in US Cellular).

Since I only go to games typically with 3 or 4 other people, and we drive together, it's not that big a deal although the cost to park your car in a lot blocks away from the stadium has long surpassed ridiculous levels (as has the price of food/beer, etc), but people are willing to pay it (generally speaking).

I think it's a no-risk move, and there's possible upside. For starters, the White Sox have 3 projected OF starters who each bring a level of uncertainty - Rios is coming off a horrendous season, De Aza is 27 (or so) years old and unproven for a pro-longed MLB opportunity and Viceido, although with upside, is a very young player. It's possible that all 3 have productive seasons, but it's also possible, maybe likely, that at least one struggles. Fukadome is a good defensive OF so, at worst, he's a competent late inning defensive player, and a another left handed bat who has the ability to get on base. He will probably be used early on more just because of trying to find the most favorable matchups, but this move also gives Lillibridge a greater opportunity to play some IF, and possibly take over at 2B if Beckham doesn't get the job done.

Is anyone shocked that Hawk is optimistic about the White Sox? They lost Mark Buehrle (which probably was the correct thing), traded their closer (which creates a question mark until Addison Reed proves he can handle the job), and their 2nd best power hitter/run producer from last year. In return, they got help for the future, although no top prospects and more middling types. They also depend heavily on 3 guys needing big years (Peavy, Dunn and Rios) as well as a starting rotation with no ace holding it together with Peavy, and 2 unproven talents (Sale, who does have a good future, and Humber). I'm not saying the White Sox can't surprise, but the facts don't matter to Hawk.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 14, 2012 -> 07:59 PM) Jake's trying to make us like him again http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,4465371.story All he has really done is ensure that Joe Cowley will spend the entire season ripping Peavy. Regardless of Peavy's thoughts about Ozzie Guillen, he really needs to shut up, and be ready to pitch when the season begins. I don't really care what an overpaid, injury prone pitcher thinks. Maybe I'll care what he says if he contributes more.

I'm not sure I'm understanding why the White Sox would even consider Jackson. It's time to find out if guys like Axelrod and Stewart can pitch. The White Sox aren't about to spend $10+ million, even on a 1 year deal for him.

I don't care how good Montero is projected to be. Why does Seattle trade a guy who looks like a dominating pitcher, a potential #1 type and who is very young? I don't understand why Seattle is making this trade. Am I over-hyping Pineda?

QUOTE (gatnom @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 01:35 PM) It's certainly possible, but Docsox, the guy with the best sources on this site by far, has been saying for a very long time that we would be resigning Danks. I really don't think Kenny ever planned on trading him, at least not for a realistic package. I think they fully intended on trading Danks, but were underwhelmed by the return they could get for him so they made the decision to resign him. I don't think they had resigning him as a likely option.

QUOTE (JoeBatterz @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:26 PM) Wake me up when the rebuilding is over. Is this rebuilding as much as just dumping salaries? Most of these guys they are acquiring don't seem to grade out to anything more than back of the rotation starters, maybe bullpen guys - and that's if they pan out. They probably have improved their minor league system a little, but it was so bad to begin with, and it's still very bad. There's not much to rebuild with in the minors.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Dec 30, 2011 -> 02:10 PM) has it been discussed on here somewhere what the lineup would be if Qs not traded?? if rios is the rios from last year do they bench him? If rios is 2010 rios who leads off?? Which would be your ideal lineup next year if Q stays? 1. De aza 2. Gordo 3. PK 4. dunn 5 Q 6 Dayan 7 AJ 8 lexi 9. morel or if we get the good rios 1. Lexi 2 gordo 3 pk 4 dunn 5 Q 6 dayan 7 AJ 8 rios 9 morel De Aza is likely to be the lead-off hitter unless he shows he can't do the job, but if Quentin does come back, they would rotate the 4 OF (Rios, Quentin, De Aza, and Viceido) not to mention Dunn as Ventura suggested and Lillibridge. So, it's probably a crowded OF even without him. I don't see how Beckham can hit any higher than 8 or 9 unless he proves he can hit major league pitching. Personally, I would love to see Lillibridge get a chance to win the job in spring training, but I don't know if he'll get that chance with him being seen as a valuable utility type. Konerko will be 3rd and Dunn will be 4th to open the season, and Viceido will probably bat 5th depending on where Rios is.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Dec 27, 2011 -> 12:36 AM) All you had to do was non tender Frasor, and you would have a spot for Reed in the pen, which would mean a better bullpen from top to bottom for approximately the same price (I think actually less). This sends me a pretty clear message that there are priorities higher than fielding the best team this year. Once again, this doesn't exactly mean they are going to trade people away if they feel they are getting inadequate value. Quentin is the only person I think they HAVE to trade at this point. We need to be able to see what both De Aza and Viciedo can do at the major league level this year. The White Sox though believe that starting pitcher is extremely important, and they couldn't pass on what they view as a future member of their starting rotation. Along with believing that Reed can fill the closer spot, these are obviously two risks than could hurt the club next season, although it could help the team in 2013 if Molina is able to secure a rotation spot. I don't disagree with not tendering Frasor though. I still don't understand that move. Maybe they still move him, but I can't imagine he'd bring much in return, but it seems like a luxury for a team that claims to have payroll issues. I still think both Quentin and Floyd are moved this off-season.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 16, 2011 -> 08:28 PM) The only direction that's logical for a FA is trading Thornton and then replacing him with another "journeyman" type in the realm of Arthur Rhodes or Darren Oliver. Don't trust Ohman at all as the primary LH guy in late inning, pressure situations. We'll find out quickly enough if they want to waste a year of Santiago's development as a starter to make him the 2nd lefty in the pen. Correct, that the's type of move I was thinking about, where you open a spot by moving a veteran and then either fill from within or with a cheap free agent. If the case of Thornton, I think they would give that role to Santiago, but it does at least open the possibility of a free agent move in the bullpen. I don't think trading Danks/Floyd would result in adding another starter since they do have enough options (Sale, Peavy, Danks/Floyd, Humber, Stewart, Axelrod), although the level of quality will certainly be the question about this group.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 16, 2011 -> 11:45 AM) Floyd could be a good fit for the Pirates. He's relatively inexpensive, and they seem like they're going to try to contend (at least more so than in the past). Both Marte and Moskos are intriguing, but it seems like Marte might have a higher upside. Good point on Floyd - I think he's under contract for 2 more seasons meaning his contract would be a fixed cost for the Pirates. He does make good coin, but another benefit of acquiring him is that they could move him next off-season or before the trading deadline prior to his free agency if the Pirates are unable to contend and perhaps recoup a prospect. Floyd would seem to be a good option for any of the mid/smaller markets team in need of pitching. I think he would have more of a market than Danks right now with Danks impending free agency and his contract demands. That's a big financial committment and prospects.

I really do see the White Sox adding any free agents until well after the New Year's when bargain basement shopping would be done (maybe not even then), AND the White Sox have executed their off-season plan, presumably moving Carlos Quentin and possibly a few pitchers amongst Danks/Floyd/Thornton. If they do trade away a few of their own, they may have just enough loose change to sign a couple veterans for cheap, 1 year deals to provide some semblance of depth (maybe a 4th OF behind De Aza, Viceido and Rios although they may just stick with Lillibridge) although I still think that what is already here will make up nearly all of the 25 man roster.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 06:39 PM) 1.) Sox get solid pitching prospect for Santos 2.) Pujols leaving Cardinals has to invigorate Brewers/Reds/Pirates making Floyd more attractive 3.) Rangers lose starter making Danks more attractive. 4.) Didn't overpay for Buehrle. 1) Correct - they did get a solid prospect for Santos although he probably won't be of any help for the 2012 team. Hopefully, he will be a candidate for the rotation in 2013 asssuming he continues to be a good minor league prospect. In the short-term, the Sox go into spring training in a very similar spot to last season - without knowing who their closer is, although we can probably rule out Matt Thornton (if he is even with the team). 2/3) I think the White Sox may have been caught off-guard on the Danks/Floyd market. For starters, I don't know that they will get back what they think they would have when the off-season began, and, if they can't get back what they were hoping, that could drastically change their plans, considering they still need to trim payroll and may have to decide between taking a lesser deal or finding another way to re-configure the roster, and add a few prospects. 4) I agree that it was a smart move to let Buerhle go. He may end proving me wrong and pitching well for the next 4 years, but A) The White Sox cannot afford another large contract and B) I believe that that last 2 years (maye more) will prove to be bad (or at least mediocre) money. I can't say that the winter meetings were a success for the White Sox, but the meetings are also just a small portion of the off-season and there's plenty of time for the White Sox to execute their off-season plan, whatever that is.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 01:11 PM) PK isn't going anywhere. We still need some revenue from ticket sales, you know. Considering that the White Sox struggle at times to break 20-25K in the summer time weeknight games, I really don't think the fans are going to games because Konerko is on the team. I just think the fanbase is so small, the only way to draw large crowds is a strong start to the season and being a consistent winner - even this just keeps you in the mid 20's, maybe low 30's here and there.

QUOTE (Fantl916 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 11:45 AM) i think one thing shouldn't be lost in these discussions about whom the white sox are trading with and why. I, personally, think it's completely valid to identify who your tradeable assets are and to target specific prospects, leveraging a perceived value as much as your can while still getting the guys you want. I see a lot of posts about tading with the orioles or red sox or yankees, but in reality what's the point if those orgs are only going to offer their #8 and #10 prospects? if the yankees won't part with banuelos for danks, and you don't partiucularly like guys like noesi or sanchez or heathcott then why pull the trigger? one of kenny's first comments re: the trade of santos for molina was that molina was one of their top tier targets on their so-called "short list". he traded a replaceable commodity, albeit a solid asset, for someone they view as a very high quality prospect. you can't argue with that. you also aren't being a good armchair gm if youre just throwing out names saying things like "i wish the white sox wouldve talked to the red sox about santos cuz gordon edes tweeted this! we couldve got kalish! lars anderson! reddick! middlebrooks!"... barf.... give me one prospect with a chance to be a #2 starter (ie a well above average MLBer) as opposed to 3 lower division types. i like kenny's approach, and anyone who's been calling for a "let the youngens play" approach should like it to. with where we are, you make everyone available and see what you are offered. much like Beane is doing with Gio and Alderson is doing with Neise/Ike (Ike, depending on what you read) as you never know if someone's gonna blow you away. I see merit is listening if someone wants to talk viciedo, even if "it doesnt make sense" but the offer would have to be ridiculous to take. lest, i digress, thats not really what this post is about. the reality is that kenny is doing the right thing, by idenifying whom he's most willing to deal and targeting specific prospects that his scouting/management team has identified as peeps on their short list. getting equal value doesnt necessarily mean the world at this point when you're going backwards. if the Reds offer Grandal, a guy maybe keeny sees as the catcher of the future, for Floyd don't you do it? dont you make that leap and say "screw if this isnt equal value i'm getting 1 piece that i want for someone who doesnt fit in my long term plans". i'm on board hugely with santos and nestor because of that very reason, and am for one excited for nestor molina this year to see what he's got. Williams did trade a solid asset in Santos for a quality prospect in Molina, but I really hope that the White sox weren't over-rating him. I realize Toronto has a deep system, but I don't think he was cracking their top 10 list, and most projections on his future have him as a middle of the rotation starter at best. Granted, if Reed is ready to close, it's a good idea to stockpile as many pitchers with quality as possible so this does have the potential to be a good trade as long as this wasn't a Williams reach.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 09:55 PM) I am so tired of Sox fans bashing Jerry Reinsdorf.. The Sox has been in the top 10 in payroll many times but the fans continue not to show up to the ballpark. I been to the ballpark many times while we were contending first place, on a warm sunny night and the stadium was still half full.. If Kenny Williams is making moves based upon fan reaction, which I don't believe he is, then you would have justification to at least blame the fans indirectly. As to the current state of this team, Williams deserves most of the blame (if you remove the blame from players with a history of producing, not producing) - the farm system has produced some players on the major league team, but it's amongst the worst in the majors and add to that a team with a payroll that has to be cut, in part to moves that proved costly, and you have the makings of a team that will have overrated players (in terms of contract vs. production), little help coming from the minors and the need to move the veteran pieces with some talent in order to shed payroll and replenish the youth in the minors.

Chicago Tribune Scouting Report This report is less than flattering - basically says the Sox over overrating this guy because the guy they got from Toronto likes him, and that he projects as a back of the rotation starter.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 12:54 PM) Addison Reed would be my inclination. 108 minor league innings with 155 k's 1.41 ERA .74 WHIP Agree. I would hope they learned from last year too not put players (Thornton) in positions that they haven't been in. Ideally, Reed claims the job in spring training.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 11:19 AM) Because it is still in the FO's plans to bring him back. I have firsthand knowledge that this is part of their plan granted some team doesnt give him 4 years at 15 million. But hey, continue with your statements. Also, based upon your projected pitching staff in the other thread where you no longer have Danks and Floyd, why would Buerhle willingingly return for less years (and money) for a team that appears to be quasi-rebuilding? Why not take more years and more money and sign with Florida or Washington?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 11:19 AM) Because it is still in the FO's plans to bring him back. I have firsthand knowledge that this is part of their plan granted some team doesnt give him 4 years at 15 million. But hey, continue with your statements. Is Buerhle going to come back and lose one year that he could have gotten elsewhere and potentially less money in the first 3 years?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 11:25 AM) If they traded who i think they will trade here is the lineup you will most likely see: 1. De Aza 2. Alexei 3. Dunn 4. Konerko 5. Viciedo 6. AJP/Flowers 7. Rios 8. Gordo 9. Morel 1. Buehrle 2. Humber 3. Peavy 4. Sale 5. Stewart/Whoever You dont think that team at least has a chance to compete within this division? The only they compete is if Dunn returns to a 30HR+ player and Vicedio replaces Quentin's production. That offense would have to be very good to hold up a pitching staff that looks like that. I'd say that this would be a 75 win team.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 10:02 AM) The Sox are not going to resign Buehrle. Why is there so much speculation that they will?! Let it go, people. I don't think they will resign Buerhle. I know many think that Reinsdorf could jump in and work something out, but I just don't feel that it's smart to give him a 3-4 year deal at his age with all of the payroll concerns already existing.