southsider2k5

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 02:18 PM) That's because they've had so little success. The truly successful teams have had more playoff appearances in the last 10 or 15 years than we've had in the last 100. Even in the 60's the White Sox were trying to move.

QUOTE (The Mighty Mite @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 01:44 PM) In the 50s and 60s, Chicago was a White Sox town often outdrawing the Cubs by a 2-1 margin. When JR bought the Sox in 1981 the town was equally divided. The Sox were the first Chicago team to draw 2 million in 1983, so things were still looking good but JR started a run of disaster moves that lost a couple of generations to the Cubs, those moves and the great marketing job by the Tribune and Harry Caray that made Wrigley Field the greatest place ever to watch a baseball game really hurt the Sox. Press coverage in the town was really lopsided. So now we are in this situation were the Cubs out draw us by a 2-1 margin. I have no idea what kinds of moves the Sox can make to rectify the situation, it would probably take a new ball park in a better location and an extended run of first place finishes and a couple of WS Championships and that still might not do the trick. Don't count on this hapenning, this franchise has never made the post season 2 years in a row in their 117 years. When the lease is up in a decade or so, my guess is there will be about 3 or 4 towns that will throw out some sweetheart deals to get the Sox to move. There has been at least 3 times in the last 50 years that the White Sox have been almost moved because they could see greener pastures. Two of those were long before the evil JR empire took over this team. The White Sox haven't been truly big market successful, even when they have had success.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 01:49 PM) We just need to stop comparing ourselves to the Cubs who are the biggest attendance anomaly in baseball and compare ourselves to what "normal" teams do when they don't play well. Just look at the teams in our own division. The Royals had attendance around 1.3 to 1.5 million every year for years. Then they went to the WS and *only* drew 1.9 million. Then 2.7 million the next year when they won. Last year they missed the playoffs and their attendance went down. I'm sure it will go down even more if they miss the playoffs again this year. The Indians, even with a WS appearance last year haven't cracked 2 million since 2008. The Twins attendance has been steadily declining since they moved into their new stadium. They've been to the playoffs once since then. We need to quit acting like the White Sox attendance isn't completely normal for what this team is and has been for several years. Maybe if people get over the idea that the White Sox are a big market team those comps would disappear. There is just nothing about this organization that shows that is realistic.

QUOTE (Soha @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 01:42 PM) For the record - I was thinking of something along the lines of 3 years for 7 mil. That would be $2.33 mil per. To me that sets him for life, and at the same time is minimal risk from the White Sox end. But yeah, trade him if someone offers something decent up. Even with his horrible numbers, he has managed to pull down $900k or more each of the last three seasons. Being 3 months from free agency, I am not sure the incentive for him to sign would be enough

QUOTE (Soha @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 01:31 PM) I didn't even mention that he could get injured, which is out of his control and happens at an alarming rate to pitchers unfortunately. Again, if you get a useful player back then ok. He could get injured, which is another great reason to not offer an extension. Honestly I have no idea what to think of how teams will value Swarzak. He is a pending free agent, but he also has a 5 year history of being pretty awful. The things that jumped out at me in his numbers is that his swing and miss rate has pretty much doubled in the last year, while his HR/9 has gone down about 90%. I get that he has gained some velocity (almost 1mph on his FB, flat on his slider), but I am sure not willing to bet a few years of a contract on that being sustainable for that amount of time. I wonder if the rest of MLB is either.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 01:29 PM) Actually, there are 6. The A's, Nationals, Royals, Reds, Rays and Pirates. What's interesting in looking through all of them individually, is that most of them set their all-time attendance records in a year where one of the following happened. 1) They had 2 or more consecutive playoff appearances in the years prior. Or in the case of the 2011 Giants, they were in the middle of an every other year WS championship streak. 2) It was their first year of existence. The 1993 Marlins and Rockies. The 1998 Rays, The 2005 Nationals. 3) It was their first (or last) year at a stadium. 2008 Mets, 2010 Twins, 2004 Padres. The only real anomalies are the 2007 Dodgers, the 1997 Orioles, the 2008 Tigers and the 2011 Brewers. I'm not sure what was special about the years they hit their attendance highs.Even the teams that have lower records than the Sox fit into one of these categories. 1993 Rockies 4,483,350 first year of existence 2008 Yankees 4,298,655 It's the Yankees. The one year out of an 18-year span they didn't make the playoffs. 1993 Blue Jays 4,057,947 2nd of back to back WS wins. Skydome had a capacity of over 53,000 2008 Mets 4,042,045 Last season at Shea Stadium 1993 Braves 3,884,720 3 consecutive playoff appearances (including 2 WS) in 91, 92 and 93. 2007 Dodgers 3,857,036 Consistently around 3 million pretty much every year. Not sure what's special about this specific year. 2010 Phillies 3,777,322 Consecutive playoff appearances from 2007 - 2011. Won WS in 2008. 1997 Orioles 3,711,132 team drew over 3 million every year between 1992 and 2001 (minus strike year). 97 was second playoff appearance in a row 1998 Dbacks 3,610,290 first year of existence 2007 Cards 3,552,180 6 playoff appearances in 7 years prior. WS win in 2006. 2002 Mariners 3,542,938 Went to ALCS in 2000 and 2001. Won 116 games in 2001. Attendance steadily declined in following years. 1999 Indians 3,468,456 midst of sellout record, won division 4 years prior 2012 Rangers 3,460,280 went to WS in 2010 and 2011. 2006 Angels 3,406,790 Consecutive playoff appearance 2 years prior and 3 years after. 2011 Giants 3,387,303 Middle of an every other year WS championship. Won it in 2010, 2012 and 2014. 2008 Cubs 3,300,200 First back to back playoff appearance since 1908. Steadily declined until next playoff appearance in 2015. 2010 Twins 3,223,640 first year of new stadium (has gone down every year since) 2008 Tigers 3,202,645 no idea? WS 2 years prior. Payroll jumped about 45 million 2004 Astros 3,087,872 Pretty good jump from 2003. Went to NLCS. 2005 attendance was actually lower. 2011 Brewers 3,071,373 No idea? Pretty good jump from 2010. Went to NLCS in 2011. 1993 Marlins 3,064,847 first year of existence 2009 Red Sox 3,062,699 Build up from previous years. Didn't go down much 2 years after either. Haven't cracked 3 million mark since 2012 2004 Padres 3,016,752 first year of new stadium Never above 3 million since. 2006 White Sox 2,957,414 year after WS win 1990 A's 2,900,217 3rd consecutive WS appearance. 2005 Nationals 2,731,993 First year of current iteration 2015 Royals 2,708,549 2nd consecutive WS appearance. 1976 Reds 2,629,708 2nd of back to back WS wins 1998 Rays 2,506,293 First year of existence 2015 Pirates 2,498,596 Third consecutive year of playoff appearances The problem is that 2005 pretty much came out of nowhere. The fans came out about as well as you can expect for a team that was predicted to finish 3rd or 4th in the division and hadn't shown a lot of promise in the years past. Then in 2006 we came out in droves ready to support the team as much as we could. But they fell short and then 2007 happened and we all figured it was back to the same ole, same old once again. Sure we got teased a little in 2008 but I don't think anyone really believed that team would do much. And we've gotten nothing since then. I'm positive the Sox would support a constant winner/contender. We just haven't been giving the chance yet. I remember when Sox fans used to say that a playoff appearance was enough. Then it became a World title would be enough. Now they have to win every single year. Knowing this fan base, they would turn into the Atlanta Braves who didn't even sell out playoff games.

Daryl Van Schouwen‏Verified account @CST_soxvan 1h1 hour ago José Abreu is attempting to join Simmons (11), Pujols (10), Ted Williams (8), DiMaggio (7) as only players with 100-plus RBI first 4 seasons

Dan Hayes‏Verified account @CSNHayes 1h1 hour ago #WhiteSox for 7/5: Engel 8, Cabrera 7, Abreu 3, A. Garcia 9, Frazier 5, Davidson DH, Anderson 6, Smith 2, Sanchez 4. Pelfrey 1.

QUOTE (Soha @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 01:17 PM) I don't think it's as easy as you're saying. What happens if he starts getting shelled in July and August and nobody wants him this winter? You can sign him to a deal and he's set for life. We shouldn't underestimate how important that is to a person. I think we just saw that very thing in action when TA signed that 6 year deal against his agent's advice. And for trading - yeah if you get a decent offer, take it. But it needs to be an asset that has a chance to mean something someday, even if it's somewhat of a longshot. Going back to Tilson. When the Tilson deal happened, Cardinal fans were all like - who cares, his ceiling is as a 4th outfielder. It's basically like giving up nothing. That's all I'm saying we should avoid. You can sign 4th outfielders for pennies on the dollar as free agents. If a player has that little confidence in themselves right before free agency, that would be a huge red flag to me. Besides that, with the amount of arms in the system, versus when this team can be expected to compete again, I have no real interest in signing Swarzak to an extension anyway. Trade him to the highest bidder by July 31, and add that to our minor league system. Count Swarzak as a victory as we turned a scrap heap signing into a young player.

QUOTE (Soha @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 12:51 PM) See to me, a likely 4th outfielder is way less valuable than a bullpen arm that puts fires out. So why trade a guy for someone who's likely potential is as a lesser player than what you're giving up. In Swarzak's case (and I'm guess ing here), he probably hasn't been paid ever and would likely jump at it if you offer him a 3 year extension for a pretty cheap number. It could end up being a super bargain for the White Sox. Dude is a free agent is 3 months. He is no hurry to sign anything right now. He is another one who gets dumped off to the highest bidder by July 31st.

Kahnle is probably the least likely guy who is currently on the 25 man roster and not a rookie, to get traded.

Is it any wonder that Illinois is where it is? https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-math-in-one-tweet/

QUOTE (shipps @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 12:18 PM) Casey Stern‏Verified account @CaseyStern 3m3 minutes ago More Ned Yost told me in no uncertain terms, that the #Royals will buy NOT sell at the deadline. "We're going for this thing." @MLBNetworkRadio

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 11:09 AM) Tier 1: Could go quick and will almost assuredly go for decent return - Frazier/Robertson Tier 2: Could go at any point for a song - Holland/Pelfrey Tier 3: Productive but expect a lack of interest/return given performance - Swarzak/Melky Tier 4: Return dependent - Q/Kahnle Past that, it'd be a shock to see them move Avi. Jennings could but isn't all that interesting. There's really 8 guys. Hopefully the Sox trade 5-6 of them. It ought to be interesting. They have a ton of guys who need to go (aka anyone who is a free agent after this season), but none of them are nearly as valuable as guys like Avi, Q, and Robertson who have some contract value built in. I think they guys in category 1/2/3 should be easier to get deals done for (except for Robertson). Q is someone that teams have had a price tag on for a year now, so that should be something where as soon as someone wants to pay up, a deal is done.

I get the feeling it will be Quintana, and it will be pretty quickly.

Jon Morosi‏Verified account @jonmorosi 3h3 hours ago Sources: #Cardinals interested in Josh Donaldson, but they have had no formal trade discussions with the #BlueJays. @MLB @MLBNetwork

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 10:34 AM) The first homer video was cool, but short season stats mean nothing to me. Realistically, the guy hasn't played organized baseball in a year, and he is playing against 16/17 year old kids. The stats mean nothing, what really matters is getting him back into game shape and ready for full season ball next year.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/national-in...-432628683.html The Six minute video is worth a watch. I have the History Channel special set to record on my DVR already.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 10:16 AM) So are you saying you heard something different??? Hmmmmmm That's not what I heard.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 10:00 AM) As opposed to the supposed austerity-driven Republican Congress, that wants to increase defense spending at least 10% without having any noteworthy (non hidden) plan almost half a year in for what to do about Russia, North Korea, Iran, ISIS, etc. 0r do you remember when Bush was printing money for the unfunded Medicare B handout? The Republicans want to give away tax revenues in order to force the middle class to bear a bigger burden while the 1%ers are lining their pockets and vacationing in the Caymans. Ramble all you want, but people are voting with their feet right now and leaving the state. Politicians should refuse to acknowledge why at their own risk.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 08:53 AM) I was at Kopech's 6/29 start - his shortest and statistically weakest of the season. I took notes, chatted with scouts, took video, talked with Michael and his pitching coach. The result is this article. Turns out this start was a good example of why context is so important, and to not get carried away with single game results. Give it a read! Sounds like some definite maturity issues to work out, but nice to know the stuff is still there after a career high in IP.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 08:12 AM) Then that would be the FO ignoring sunk cost. The Astros signed Jon Singelton to a premature (in retrospect) pre-arb extension, and instead of compounding their losses, he's sitting in the minors...despite the fact that First Base remains one of their weaker positions (relative to the Astros). Further, this is rebuild...they need to acquire the best talent regardless of position. They can't start penciling in prospects onto the major league roster this early in the process. A lot of these guys will flop....and when one does, it's "next man up." Singleton's deal is paying him $2 million. That really isn't a sacrifice in modern baseball. The Sox have done this multiple times. It is also a poor comparison seeing as the Anderson deal is significantly higher than that in its last few years.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 10:00 AM) Hopefully. Edit: it is now hitting me that that is only 27 days from now. Where has time gone? There is literally no reason for any player who will be a free agent after this season to stay here. Even if it is just salary relief, there is zero reason for them to be kept.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 06:01 AM) Existing in a big market SHOULD make you a big market team. That's a no-brainer, and only an irrational angry mindset would not allow one to reach this easy conclusion. It's the embarrassingly ineffective management of the past several decades that has precluded this organization from taking advantage of the great market that is Chicago. If you can get past the most simple of concepts, you could understand that it is a little more complex than what you want it to be to fit your grudge.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 09:35 AM) Chicago Metro population = 9,512,999 Ok, let's assume the Cubs and White Sox can each capture half the market on average: Chicago Metro population divided by 2 = 4,756,500 Ok, now let's compare that to other market sizes: Atlanta = 5,710,795 San Diego = 3,263,000 Dallas/Ft. Worth = 6,426,214 Seattle = 3,733,580 Washington DC = 6,097,684 Phoenix = 4,574,531 Miami = 5,008,000 The White Sox are a mid-market team because, although Chicago is a large market by itself, the market is divided by additional competition, whereas most other baseball markets are not. Chicago is the nations smallest multiple team market. And that is with the crazy assumption that the Sox and Cubs evenly share Chicago. Realistically it is probably more like 2/3 to 1/3.