Dick Allen

I think any season the White Sox play before Chris Sale clutches his elbow or shoulder, where they are playing out the string with over a month to go, is not a successful season.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 27, 2014 -> 01:40 PM) I think this season has been a nice building year for 2015 and there's no reason 2016 won't end up with the Sox contending. The biggest disappointments this year have been E. Johnson and Davidson going from core pieces to gigantic question marks, as well as the lack of non-core players performing well enough to bring back anything at the trade deadline. I will say that Rodon was the perfect draft pick for this team, given Sale and Abreu's peak years coming up. Davidson and Johnson are pretty big minuses for this season. Davidson is Michael Jordan in AA after not playing since he was a sophomore in HS except with more homers, more strikeouts and fewer stolen bases. Almost all the rest of their offensive numbers are the same. Considering how many of the other players on Charlotte's roster pretty much raked, Davidson's season is a huge blow for a team that considered him a middle of the order bat for a long time. And Johnson.........hopefully he can bounce back, but this season was just a waste of time for him.

Sergio Santos DFA'd again. No one will pick him up, and Toronto will surely pay the buyout. I bet he is one guy the Sox will want back for a look next spring if no other team does anything crazy.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 27, 2014 -> 12:35 PM) That's fine. But you can't rely on those things to happen in order to clear Rodon a rotation spot unless you're willing to keep him in the minors the whole year if they don't happen. If Noesi has a solid start and shows he's learning how to be a better starter, do you keep Rodon in AAA the full year? If Sale doesn't get hurt, do you keep Rodon in AAA the whole year? If the goal is for Rodon to enter the rotation you can't have him in a place where you're counting on one of those things to happen. Those issues are an argument that we should have a backup plan other than Rodon if the goal is for him to be in the big leagues early next season. If Rodon is deserving of a spot in the rotation, Rodon will have a spot in the rotation. C'mon man. There is no team in baseball with too much starting pitching. And no team in baseball keeps Carlos Rodon in the minors if he is ready because of guys like Hector Noesi or other mediocrity like him. Just name one season with one team where a spot wouldn't be open for Rodon if he was ready. The Sox have Sale, Q, and then a bunch of guys who can't hold Rodon's jock. Any team that banks on having 5 starters all year long is probably in for a long season. I think the 2005 White Sox tied a record with 6.

Actually, Danks was shutdown the last month of 2007 and came back in 2008 as a much better pitcher, which included a stellar performance in game 163. So if it is fatigue, at least with him, I don't think shutting him down is necessarily a mistake.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Aug 27, 2014 -> 08:37 AM) I think part of it is that the FO knew this was a "retooling" year. They won't say re-building. So if they figured out where the greatest needs were that is the step to truly building next year. But still, it makes no sense. How is it considered successful if you find out Viciedo isn't the player you had hoped him to be moving forward? Successful to me would be if they knew they could count on him moving forward, or at least found someone else they could count on. It isn't as if they have a surefire replacement ready.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 27, 2014 -> 08:35 AM) And they now know they shouldn't expect him to play more than 100 games a season from here on out? Considering he has appeared in 95 on August 26th, I find your comment ridiculous.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Aug 27, 2014 -> 08:14 AM) I look at the season this way: when the Sox signed Paulie for one more year, that was a clear sign to me that the Sox had no belief that they could contend this year. They knew they had a good core in Sale, Quintana, Abreu, Garcia and Eaton. The rest of the roster was essentially tryouts to see who gets to stick around for 2015 and who gets further attention. Gillaspie and Ramirez earned the right to stay. Noesi and Flowers aren't ideal but may have done enough to earn another year. De Aza, Viciedo, and pretty much then entire bullpen have failed and will need to be replaced, and of course Beckham is already gone. This is a successful season because the Sox have figured out for sure who needs to stay and who needs to go. There are very few question marks left. I don't see where knowing who needs to go makes a season successful. People get fired because they aren't successful. Other than the obvious, Sale, Q, Rodon, Abreu, who with his contract, they had to know was going to be around for a while, and Alexei, Eaton, there still, IMO, are questions everywhere. Garcia looks like a keeper, but it has pretty much been a lost season for him. No one knows how the Sox minor leaguers will be as major leaguers. If your job was on the line, would you commit to Hector Noesi and Zach Putnam going forward? Even Gillaspie. He's had a nice year. Has definitely earned his position, but moving forward, is anyone really sure what he is? There has been a lot of brilliance, but also some things that make you think if he hits .240 next year with little power and a mediocre glove, it wouldn't be surprising. I guess what I am getting at is IMO the only Sox player who has gotten over the hump that they really didn't know what they reasonably could expect from him moving forward in a postive way, besides Abreu, is Eaton.

Stone was singing the praises of Cleveland's totally rebuilt bullpen, and the other day said if the Sox had KC's bullpen, they would be in first place. Even with all the other issues, fixing the bullpen has to be the priority. It effects the game and overall record a lot more than the other holes. Fill the other holes if you can, but make sure that the bullpen is addressed.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 26, 2014 -> 02:41 PM) Then they could have provided value to the future of the team through trade. I think the Sox were justified in keeping those guys, but it's obviously bitten them in the ass (as pretty much every short-term signing they made this offseason has). The Sox luck with that compared to the Cubs lately has been ridiculous. I doubt they sign someone else. They still had Keppinger, and I would imagine they thought he would be healthy enough to play. If Paulie doesn't come back, maybe he still is in baseball. Ultimately, it didn't cost the White Sox anything, and Paulie has had his moments. He still gets the biggest cheers at USCF. Letting him go out like this instead of the Fisk, Thomas, McDowell, Maggs ugliness when they left is preferrable and ultimately may help the White Sox. A. with free agents and B. being omited from no trade clauses.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 26, 2014 -> 02:32 PM) Viciedo was seemingly going to platoon with De Aza and get about 300-400 plate appearances prior to Garcia getting hurt. He can play multiple positions (I think it's safe to say he can play LF, RF, and 1B). He's young and got years of control still. De Aza was viewed as a competent starting player. Beckham was given one more chance. Those players all have bigger roles with the ability to diversify their roles while also having (relative) youth on their side. They could have had a future on this team if they performed. Konerko has no future on this team, and this team is rebuilding, which is a time when teams make critical decisions on their future. I love and respect everything Konerko did for the organization, and I ultimately didn't care that Konerko was on the roster, but those people who have or had a beef with Konerko have/had legitimate gripes. They really don't. The spot gets very limited playing time. If you want one of your better minor leaguers there, you are basically wasting a year of development. I initially thought it ultimately cost Jordan Danks a spot, but he did get some time with injuries earlier and his play wound up costing him a spot.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 26, 2014 -> 10:29 AM) At the very least it seems like Semien would have a decent shot at an IF/utility position next year if they wanted to go that way, and depending on what they do at other positions there could be some at bats available at DH for him as well. Leury should clearly not get a chance to be the UT guy again until he does more in the minors to improve with the bat. The Sox need to send Leury to winter ball to work on the offense. If he could just be mediocre, he's a nice guy to have on the bench.

The great joy people take seeing a person they don't even know struggling is actually pretty sad.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Aug 26, 2014 -> 07:34 AM) Each year that a player is in the minor leagues for more than 20 days after being put on the 40 man roster counts as an option year. He was put on the 40 man and called up in 2012 and remained in the Majors the rest of that year other than one short stint. If my understanding is correct, the Sox used one option year in each of 2013 and 2014 so he should have one left after this year. That's amazing. Jordan Danks is the Jess Settles of baseball. It seems he has been getting called up and sent down forever, yet still has an option left.

I'm a Beckham fan, and while I do think sometimes position being played will affect your offense, I don't think it had anything to do with Gordon's struggles. He did hit well for periods as a 2B. He overthinks. His swing gets long, and he struggles. Earlier this year, when he got his average to about .300, his stroke was short and sweet.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 24, 2014 -> 04:06 PM) Williams wanted a house-horse. Someone who would be loyal to him and Cooper. I understand that, but why they picked someone who had never sat so much as a minute on a bench as a coach in any capacity, despite being retired for 7 years, is hard to figure. I also don't understand the extension - unless it's Williams still calling the shots on such things. How many years have you sat on a bench? You seem to think you have every answer.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Aug 24, 2014 -> 03:51 PM) McCann is not your typical LHH. He's hitting just .208/.265/.324 vs RHP. Headly has an OPS almost .100 points higher vs RHP than McCann. Once again facts. Stop it, you will make the complainers look as incompetent as they think RV is.

Paulie is working the grecian formula on his goatee.

QUOTE (JoshPR @ Aug 24, 2014 -> 02:45 PM) Off a damn good reliever too Riveria taught this guy the cutter, and he got to 500 career strikeouts quicker than Mariano. Righties hit this guy better than lefties in case anyone is wondering about pinch hitters.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 24, 2014 -> 02:33 PM) The offense has gone silent since the Yanks scored. They haven't scored more than 3 runs in a game for a week.

Big error totals are pretty standard in the low minors. Ozzie Smith played 68 minor league games. They all were as a 22 year old in low A ball. He made 23 errors. If Anderson is showing nice range, there is nothing to panic about....yet.

So much crying .

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Aug 23, 2014 -> 03:12 PM) Sox lose 5-3................................ 7th straight loss on the road against the Yankees. Team in the typical toilet mode under Ventura in August. 16-12 August 2012 16-13 August 2013 At least have some fact when Robin bashing.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 23, 2014 -> 06:37 AM) The way you characterized Alexei Ramirez was inaccurate. It should have said starting American League All-Star SS, if not for Derek Jeter homage. Reading your posts he is old, he has to go, the attendance.....the fact is this team isn't very good. Their best players have almost all been injured. They have had others bust. People have been pining for guys from the AAA team to play. A team that actually has a worse record in AAA than the White Sox. Yet if the Sox lose, Robin is stupid. Look at the criticism for this game. A poster complained he DIDN'T bunt and used Webb in the 9th. Yet anytime he has bunted, he is stupid for wasting outs and any idiot except Robin knows Webb should be the Sox closer. It used to be Greg Walker's fault when the hitters didn't hit. Now if the pitchers pitch well, Cooper is a genius. If they suck, Robin has to go. If the hitters hit, Steverson is great. If they don't Robin is a buffoon. Some people need to get a grip. The offense has been better, but really how much better would it have been without new players Eaton and Abreu? The pitchers who should suck, suck. They need better players. That isn't Robin's job or Cooper' job or Steverson's job. Stone said last night if the White Sox had KC's bullpen they would be in first place after Hawk said they would battle for first place. The talent level needs to improve.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Aug 22, 2014 -> 10:33 PM) I don't think I've heard anyone here say Avisail Garcia sucks. (yet) I agree with you to an extent though. Avi has hardly played. I was referring to Viciedo.