Dick Allen

While I do think you do learn how to win, I don't think the roster has to be full of guys with playoff experience. Who on the 2005 team was playoff tested? AJ and his .235 OBP in the ALCS prior to 2005?

Where has it ever been in print, on the radio, on TV, where Rick Hahn has a totally different philosophy as far as putting a baseball team together than KW/JR? I would think if he did, he never would have been the GM. It's not like KW went away. It's not like JR wants to pay someone to always take the opposite stance as he does. There will be differences because they aren't clones. But it is all pretty much the same.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 01:06 PM) I thought he has always been a "hands off" owners from the players respect, except for the budget. They needed to go to him to approve over budget spending. I think that still holds. Look at this offseason. According to SI, JR was disappointed upon hearing the team was a long ways away. So he said do what you can to make it a contender this year. All the signings and trades indicate that is exactly what they were doing. They signed some expensive guys but still, $14 million a year on FA is pretty middle of the road these days, so they signed several instead of trading away the few prospects they have left. This team is not as bad as they have played.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 01:00 PM) From the outside looking it, there is one guy who calls the shots. That is the Chairman. Everyone else works within Jerry's framework. Again, from the plentiful circumstantial evidence, both Kenny and Rick are OK with it. They both could have left if they wanted to do so at many different points. I agree with this. He might not actually select the players, but it was his call to spend some money and upgrade the talent level. The fact is, many of the people complaining about the signings weren't complaining when they happened, including the biggest complainer. And funny how those, at the time, were thought to be Hahn moves, and the second they backfired, KW's fingerprints are suddenly all over them. Considering some are complaining about the White Sox signing LaRoche, and think the White Sox should be more like the Cardinals, the title of this thread is pretty funny.

QUOTE (buhbuhburrrrlz @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 11:54 AM) So like HINRICH Yes, except for the leaving for a year or 2 and coming back part.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 12:17 PM) Well, they should have traded for Donaldson/Grandal or Cervelli and signed Brett Anderson, Kendrys Morales and anyone not named Melky Cabrera (such as Cespedes, Aoki, Yasmani Tomas, Rasmus, etc.) to play LF. Then they could have used some combination of Semien/Phegley/Bassitt/Ravelo to get a younger/cheaper closer candidate. Everyone would be a genius GM if they could tell you what they would have done in December the next June 26th. I didn't see too many complaints in the Sox sign David Robertson thread. Were you complaining then?

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 12:10 PM) Robertson actually seems more like a Hahn type than KW though. He doesn't throw hard and has tons of movement. JR wanted them to be a contender this year after being told the roster was a long way away. The guys they signed to make them better immediately and not in 2 or 3 years make sense. It has totally flopped. But whoever you think is making baseball decision, either KW, RH,BB , or JR, the fact is the boss told them to put together a good team NOW, and they did what they could. They had nothing to trade for immediate help unless it was Abreu or Sale and that was also an immediate hurt. So they had to sign free agents. LaRoche was considered a good signing. Melky was considered a perfect 2 hole hitter. Robertson was the best closer on the market. This board loved the Duke and Bonifacio signings. The Samardjiza trade seemed weird but if you are trying to win in 2015, not THAT weird. It has all pretty much gone wrong. Will it continue? Maybe, but stranger things have happened than some bounce back, even if it's next year. The Sox gave up prospects for Samardzija, but Phegley, even though he has done well, I doubt many here would say he is a long term plus major leaguer. Semien started out out, but his numbers are dropping, and if you hate players throwing the ball away, he's not your man. I know, he would be a great second baseman, yet the advanced stats , very limited, do make him out to be rather horrid there. So really, if you were a fan of a total rebuild, the draft picks are lining up for next season. You are out Semien and Phegley. You do get Ynoa and a comp pick or whatever they get for Shark. You do miss the second and third rounder this season, but historically those haven't been tremendous players, and anyone in JR's will might be out a little cash.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 11:56 AM) Hahn and his lieutenants had their work cut out for them. To turn a team that had won 63 and 73 games, respectively, the previous two seasons and had posted the majors' third worst run differential in 2014 into a contender overnight would be no small undertaking. They’d have to be creative, and they’d have to be aggressive — and the Samardzija trade would be a start. It was Reinsdorf's idea to OKAY THE SPENDING. It wasn't his idea to choose Samardzija, Robertson and (eventually) Cabrera specifically. From that article, it was clear that Samardzija and Robertson were the two initial targets of the off-season. But someone put them on that list in the first place, and it wasn't JR writing in ink on that infamous BIG BOARD. I see how you ignored this: “I’m a little disappointed,” Reinsdorf, the 78-year-old owner who is never one to mince words, said to the others at the summit, referring to how far his team appeared to be from contending. Reinsdorf had another message: I don’t want to hear about a rebuild. Do what you need to do to make this team a contender in 2015.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 11:50 AM) You might be 100% right. Ventura could have gone to KW/Hahn or even mentioned to JR at one time or another last season that there was no way to "fix the bullpen" without their being defined roles and someone at the back-end he could go to confidently...that the team was losing confidence in its ability to close out games and "expecting bad things to happen" (not unlike now) in the 7th, 8th or 9th inning. They tried to bluff their way through it when Nate Jones went down with Petricka and Belisario and the task proved to be too big. Here's the story from SI. It appears the "culprit" is JR. But let's not let facts ruin some KW bashing. http://www.si.com/mlb/2015/01/30/white-sox...david-robertson

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 11:29 AM) There were two competing philosophies about closers. The KW one was to go out and get the established guy, like a Billy Koch....ignoring the fact that Howry, Foulke, Gordon, Takatsu, Hermanson and Jenks were all inexpensive and able to get the job done pretty darned effectively. We saw that trend continue with Sergio Santos, Hector Santiago and Addison Reed...shipping out pitchers from this position and continually trading them to fill in gaps (or try to) in other places. Essentially, copying the Oakland A's way of doing things, which wasn't to sink a ton of money into the closer's spot, and trade those players when they became more expensive. It DEFINITELY SEEMS like a KW move to go after an elite closer like Robertson and do a slight overpay...because it's ignoring that trend which has existed since 2002-2003 with the front office acting out of desperation (just like the Dotel/Linebrink/MacDougal deals). So you mention about 6 closer acquired on the cheap by....KW, and then say signing a closer to a big money deal seems like a KW move, when he really has never done it before. I can't believe I am defending him, but where do you come up with this BS?

Butler will be a Bull probably longer than anyone will want him on the Bulls. This is just posturing.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 10:14 AM) It will absolutely be used as ammo against KU, fair or not. Delusional if you think otherwise. Illinois or anyone doesn't even have to say a word. Mac Irvin already blowing up on twitter about it. Whether it amounts to anything against Kansas for other programs, time will tell. And when he played has nothing to do with it, still. The nba finds talent. It doesn't give a s*** when you played or for who. Again, a Syracuse freshman with a torn acl went in the first round. They didn't care thay he didn't play in the tournament or whatever. What mattered is that he looked good when he did play, and was an idiot when talking to teams. Cliff can't say the same. They can use it as ammo, but the problem Illinois has is it is still Kansas and Bill Self, and they are Illinois and John Groce so it won't matter until Groce actually gets one of these one and dones and has success.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 10:23 AM) And we waited for Dunn and Danks to do just that....and, are still waiting. Even with Cabrera and Eaton hitting much better, this team is still fundamentally-flawed. With those players rising, guys like Ramirez, Beckham and Avi are correspondingly falling, so we're still not doing anything much besides treading water. If it's not the bullpen, it's the defense...if it's not the offense, it's the base running. We can fix one wall of the foundation, but the whole thing will collapse eventually and need to be rebuilt from the ground up. And I'm not even sure who we are waiting on NOW that we can expect to return us to greater glory? Alexei Ramirez? Samardzija? Quintana? Beckham? Sanchez? Gillaspie? Flowers? Robertson/Duke? You love the Royals, the Cubs, the Astros, the Pirates, probably the Rays. A couple things those teams have in common are they haven't won anything for 30 years and they had to be very bad a very long time to get where they are at. The White Sox have been bad for 3 years, and people here can't take it. They tried to win this year, but the rebuild on the fly is still in order. They did surrender a 2nd and 3rd round pick, and sent some prospects to Oakland. (Not to much whining about Semien lately) But unless you are in JR's will, the rebuild is still on. They do have a plan. Some of it is going to hinge on some of their players playing up to their capabilities.

The quickest fix will be several players returning to their former levels of play. It isn't so crazy it will happen.

Chris Squire, bassist for Yes......he gone.

Quentin is the obvious answer.slappy guys like Pierre and Vizquel who was in the NL for 3 years held their own.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 27, 2015 -> 11:26 AM) So basically the managers back then were better off? Wasn't LaRussa one of the first to start analyzing advanced statistics on his own...all those index cards that he kept? Fisk attributed his renaissance to the warm weather and the higher place in the batting order. ''Just knowing where you are going to be in the lineup every day helps,'' he said, ''and batting second keeps you aware. You are faced with a lot of situations.'' Previously, he was in the lower third of the batting order. Source nytimes.com If Robin Ventura put a catcher hitting about .175 fifty or sixty games imto the season, into the 2 hole with a team struggling, he would be called a moron. Ventura is trying to fimd a two hole hitter. Melky, Alexei, Beckham, Gillaspie, Shuck, Avi have all hit secomd. What the hell else is he supposed to do? Why don't you just tell us what the correct philosophy is and who the guy batting secomd should be. At this point he is tryimg to find something that will work. Nothing has as of yet, but he is still trying. That "philosophy" seems pretty sound.

Because he is 30 years old and sucks.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 27, 2015 -> 09:26 AM) http://www.southsidesox.com/2015/6/24/8837...could-be-bolder Article looking at Alexei Ramirez and Cabrera, bat speed, the #2 spot and Ventura's "philosophy." I think his philosophy is trying to find someone who will do well in the 2 hole. Except for Abreu and LaRoche he has tried just about everyone except the catchers and Sanchez. I think he is hoping it could spark something like it did Fisk in 1983 where I am sure if all these numbers were around back then there would have been many calls for his release before moving there.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 26, 2015 -> 09:12 PM) Have we ever had a single minor leaguer come up and execute a sac bunt in a key situation? If slappy middle infielders can't even do it, there's no prayer for anyone else. Ventura's decision-making the last two innings didn't help. Where was Putnam? Why is it assumed Duke matches up equally well with righties and lefties? It certainly wasn't a suicide squeeze. High fastballs are hard to bunt. He should have let that one go. I think a young guy hitting .150 probably was too impatient. Hopefully he will learn from this. And if you look at his splits the last 2 seasons, it would be assumed Duke matches up pretty equally with batters from bith sides of the plate.

QUOTE (harkness @ Jun 26, 2015 -> 09:10 PM) Nope Ah, yep. I read on this very site, you don't play for a tie on the road.

QUOTE (lilnicky @ Jun 26, 2015 -> 09:07 PM) I was listening to Tigers broadcast on XM radio the announcer's couldn't believe that Beckham wasn't bunting to move Garcia....enough with this team's stupidity!! Wan't Robin an idiot for playing for a tie on the road earlier this season when a bunt in a similar situation failed?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 25, 2015 -> 05:31 PM) I thought weight was an issue with Okafor as well I think it has been, but what is his reputation? If he has a good work ethic, the strength and conditioning in the NBA should make that a non issue. If he has a lazy reputation like Eddy Curry He may get hurt sitting on and popping an exercise ball in a couple of years like he did.

If I was picking first I would take Russell.

Nice job by Duke. Letting Victor reach and getting out of it was a break, as he is now out of the game.