Dick Allen

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 1, 2015 -> 09:14 AM) His winning percentage is 80 points better and he's has a playoff appearance with the Indians, though. How many games do you think the Sox would be ahead of the Indians if they were able to trade managers? 15? 20? It's funny, I read on here the Sox have no future. Almost all their players suck, their prospects suck, their payroll is maxed out...Yet, I also read where apparently if someone else was managing, none of this would be true.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Jul 1, 2015 -> 08:16 AM) Remember Terry Francona was available when we hired a tee-ball coach hanging out in Malibu? Well what the f***? KW really wanted PK over Terry? He's a problem too, the organization is dysfunctional, not as bad, but just like the New York Jets The same guy who is managing the team SI picked to win the WS and is 1.5 games ahead of the White Sox? Yeah, the Sox would be leading the division by 10 games if they hired him.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 01:12 PM) The optimism last offseason didn't work out so well for those who had it. How did the pessimism work out for you?

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 01:31 PM) If anybody is going for drinks before the game, I would recommend Flying Saucer over Ballpark Village. 900 Spruce, about 1 block west of the stadium. I was there last month. I also was at the Ballpark Village. Leonard Zelig is correct.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 10:49 AM) Isn't that preferable to now pretending Robin Ventura was 2012 AL Manager of the Year and that we actually made the playoffs that season? Should we just throw out the results from the field and argue the Sox should have won in 1994, 2003, 2006, 2008 (Quentin hamate was unlucky), 2010 and 2012? Weren't we just as lucky Hahn's kid lucked out on the coin toss, or it would be a full decade since the last White Sox playoff appearance? That doesn't count? Sometimes...teams make their own luck. It's sports. Even the 2005 White Sox had about at least eight or nine lucky things occur for them to win...every possible break went their way. No. 30 years of sucking to make a wild card is not the preferred way.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 10:21 AM) That was Greg Walker...and, if Ventura had actually led the 2012 team to the playoffs and World Series, he would have essentially bought himself another 5-6 years of good will from the fans. Now we're going on 2.5 years with just a liitle light at the end of the tunnel (Rodon, Fulmer, Anderson)..and no hint of a second playoff appearance (2008 for Ozzie) or 90 win team in sight. Finally, every team in the division is better positioned for the next 2-3 seasons...other than the Tigers, who still will possess the ability to outspend us by 25-30% as long as Illitch is alive. And, for as long as they retain David Price, they've got a gambler's chance. If you are blaming the losing on the manager, why are you crying about the talent level? A good manager obviously has this team in the playoffs easily and probably the WS.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 10:21 AM) That was Greg Walker...and, if Ventura had actually led the 2012 team to the playoffs and World Series, he would have essentially bought himself another 5-6 years of good will from the fans. Now we're going on 2.5 years with just a liitle light at the end of the tunnel (Rodon, Fulmer, Anderson)..and no hint of a second playoff appearance (2008 for Ozzie) or 90 win team in sight. Finally, every team in the division is better positioned for the next 2-3 seasons...other than the Tigers, who still will possess the ability to outspend us by 25-30% as long as Illitch is alive. And, for as long as they retain David Price, they've got a gambler's chance. So the White Sox situation is hopeless. They will never win. Isn't this the Royals model that you want the Sox to adopt? Suck Royally for 30 years, sneak into the WC get lucky during the WC game, get to the WS, lose, and suddenly your way is the right way.

Do people forget Ozzie quit on the team? Who was the manager for many of the This. Team. Is. Dead. posts. It didn't used to be blamed on the manager. Now it is.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 30, 2015 -> 09:46 AM) The Sox can ignore the potential benefits of an exciting metamorphosis at their own risk. But Hahn's promising offseason has only resulted in a bump of 1,014 fans per game and their average of 21,910 ranks 27th in league attendance — with 49 home games left for the division's last-place team. They'e already lost 50% of their offseason ticket bounce. And selling advertising for radio and t.v. broadcasts from here on out (if they weren't already locked into season long packages) will become a game of rapidly dimishing returns. Other than playing the Cubs and July 17-19th (2005 reunion)...things are going to get uglier without anything beyond cosmetic changes taking place. If it is all about the bottom line, cleaning house now isn't going to do anything but cost them money. They would be paying another manager, and or GM, or Exec VP, and fans aren't going to watch this team because Ozzie Guillen or whoever, is in the dugout. The White Sox aren't going to fire anyone because that is what DeLuca wants, or Haugh wants, or Caulfield wants.

Why do people complain the White Sox hire their own and then suggest guys like Ozzie, Thome, Alomar, and Martinez? The Sun Times article is pretty funny considering it is written by Chris De Luca, a guy who refused to fire Cowley, and a guy whose own people think is very incompetent at his job as a managing editor (see Jim O'Donnell). People have been calling for his head for years.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 02:32 PM) Who is our captain then? Sale for the pitchers... Who for the bats? No Konerko anymore. You can say that for the Astros and Rays -- but I'd be willing to say neither will be in the playoffs. I would bet collectively, the 2015 White Sox roster has more postseason experience than the 2005 roster had coming into that season.

While I do think you do learn how to win, I don't think the roster has to be full of guys with playoff experience. Who on the 2005 team was playoff tested? AJ and his .235 OBP in the ALCS prior to 2005?

Where has it ever been in print, on the radio, on TV, where Rick Hahn has a totally different philosophy as far as putting a baseball team together than KW/JR? I would think if he did, he never would have been the GM. It's not like KW went away. It's not like JR wants to pay someone to always take the opposite stance as he does. There will be differences because they aren't clones. But it is all pretty much the same.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 01:06 PM) I thought he has always been a "hands off" owners from the players respect, except for the budget. They needed to go to him to approve over budget spending. I think that still holds. Look at this offseason. According to SI, JR was disappointed upon hearing the team was a long ways away. So he said do what you can to make it a contender this year. All the signings and trades indicate that is exactly what they were doing. They signed some expensive guys but still, $14 million a year on FA is pretty middle of the road these days, so they signed several instead of trading away the few prospects they have left. This team is not as bad as they have played.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 01:00 PM) From the outside looking it, there is one guy who calls the shots. That is the Chairman. Everyone else works within Jerry's framework. Again, from the plentiful circumstantial evidence, both Kenny and Rick are OK with it. They both could have left if they wanted to do so at many different points. I agree with this. He might not actually select the players, but it was his call to spend some money and upgrade the talent level. The fact is, many of the people complaining about the signings weren't complaining when they happened, including the biggest complainer. And funny how those, at the time, were thought to be Hahn moves, and the second they backfired, KW's fingerprints are suddenly all over them. Considering some are complaining about the White Sox signing LaRoche, and think the White Sox should be more like the Cardinals, the title of this thread is pretty funny.

QUOTE (buhbuhburrrrlz @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 11:54 AM) So like HINRICH Yes, except for the leaving for a year or 2 and coming back part.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 12:17 PM) Well, they should have traded for Donaldson/Grandal or Cervelli and signed Brett Anderson, Kendrys Morales and anyone not named Melky Cabrera (such as Cespedes, Aoki, Yasmani Tomas, Rasmus, etc.) to play LF. Then they could have used some combination of Semien/Phegley/Bassitt/Ravelo to get a younger/cheaper closer candidate. Everyone would be a genius GM if they could tell you what they would have done in December the next June 26th. I didn't see too many complaints in the Sox sign David Robertson thread. Were you complaining then?

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 12:10 PM) Robertson actually seems more like a Hahn type than KW though. He doesn't throw hard and has tons of movement. JR wanted them to be a contender this year after being told the roster was a long way away. The guys they signed to make them better immediately and not in 2 or 3 years make sense. It has totally flopped. But whoever you think is making baseball decision, either KW, RH,BB , or JR, the fact is the boss told them to put together a good team NOW, and they did what they could. They had nothing to trade for immediate help unless it was Abreu or Sale and that was also an immediate hurt. So they had to sign free agents. LaRoche was considered a good signing. Melky was considered a perfect 2 hole hitter. Robertson was the best closer on the market. This board loved the Duke and Bonifacio signings. The Samardjiza trade seemed weird but if you are trying to win in 2015, not THAT weird. It has all pretty much gone wrong. Will it continue? Maybe, but stranger things have happened than some bounce back, even if it's next year. The Sox gave up prospects for Samardzija, but Phegley, even though he has done well, I doubt many here would say he is a long term plus major leaguer. Semien started out out, but his numbers are dropping, and if you hate players throwing the ball away, he's not your man. I know, he would be a great second baseman, yet the advanced stats , very limited, do make him out to be rather horrid there. So really, if you were a fan of a total rebuild, the draft picks are lining up for next season. You are out Semien and Phegley. You do get Ynoa and a comp pick or whatever they get for Shark. You do miss the second and third rounder this season, but historically those haven't been tremendous players, and anyone in JR's will might be out a little cash.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 11:56 AM) Hahn and his lieutenants had their work cut out for them. To turn a team that had won 63 and 73 games, respectively, the previous two seasons and had posted the majors' third worst run differential in 2014 into a contender overnight would be no small undertaking. They’d have to be creative, and they’d have to be aggressive — and the Samardzija trade would be a start. It was Reinsdorf's idea to OKAY THE SPENDING. It wasn't his idea to choose Samardzija, Robertson and (eventually) Cabrera specifically. From that article, it was clear that Samardzija and Robertson were the two initial targets of the off-season. But someone put them on that list in the first place, and it wasn't JR writing in ink on that infamous BIG BOARD. I see how you ignored this: “I’m a little disappointed,” Reinsdorf, the 78-year-old owner who is never one to mince words, said to the others at the summit, referring to how far his team appeared to be from contending. Reinsdorf had another message: I don’t want to hear about a rebuild. Do what you need to do to make this team a contender in 2015.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 11:50 AM) You might be 100% right. Ventura could have gone to KW/Hahn or even mentioned to JR at one time or another last season that there was no way to "fix the bullpen" without their being defined roles and someone at the back-end he could go to confidently...that the team was losing confidence in its ability to close out games and "expecting bad things to happen" (not unlike now) in the 7th, 8th or 9th inning. They tried to bluff their way through it when Nate Jones went down with Petricka and Belisario and the task proved to be too big. Here's the story from SI. It appears the "culprit" is JR. But let's not let facts ruin some KW bashing. http://www.si.com/mlb/2015/01/30/white-sox...david-robertson

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 11:29 AM) There were two competing philosophies about closers. The KW one was to go out and get the established guy, like a Billy Koch....ignoring the fact that Howry, Foulke, Gordon, Takatsu, Hermanson and Jenks were all inexpensive and able to get the job done pretty darned effectively. We saw that trend continue with Sergio Santos, Hector Santiago and Addison Reed...shipping out pitchers from this position and continually trading them to fill in gaps (or try to) in other places. Essentially, copying the Oakland A's way of doing things, which wasn't to sink a ton of money into the closer's spot, and trade those players when they became more expensive. It DEFINITELY SEEMS like a KW move to go after an elite closer like Robertson and do a slight overpay...because it's ignoring that trend which has existed since 2002-2003 with the front office acting out of desperation (just like the Dotel/Linebrink/MacDougal deals). So you mention about 6 closer acquired on the cheap by....KW, and then say signing a closer to a big money deal seems like a KW move, when he really has never done it before. I can't believe I am defending him, but where do you come up with this BS?

Butler will be a Bull probably longer than anyone will want him on the Bulls. This is just posturing.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 10:14 AM) It will absolutely be used as ammo against KU, fair or not. Delusional if you think otherwise. Illinois or anyone doesn't even have to say a word. Mac Irvin already blowing up on twitter about it. Whether it amounts to anything against Kansas for other programs, time will tell. And when he played has nothing to do with it, still. The nba finds talent. It doesn't give a s*** when you played or for who. Again, a Syracuse freshman with a torn acl went in the first round. They didn't care thay he didn't play in the tournament or whatever. What mattered is that he looked good when he did play, and was an idiot when talking to teams. Cliff can't say the same. They can use it as ammo, but the problem Illinois has is it is still Kansas and Bill Self, and they are Illinois and John Groce so it won't matter until Groce actually gets one of these one and dones and has success.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 10:23 AM) And we waited for Dunn and Danks to do just that....and, are still waiting. Even with Cabrera and Eaton hitting much better, this team is still fundamentally-flawed. With those players rising, guys like Ramirez, Beckham and Avi are correspondingly falling, so we're still not doing anything much besides treading water. If it's not the bullpen, it's the defense...if it's not the offense, it's the base running. We can fix one wall of the foundation, but the whole thing will collapse eventually and need to be rebuilt from the ground up. And I'm not even sure who we are waiting on NOW that we can expect to return us to greater glory? Alexei Ramirez? Samardzija? Quintana? Beckham? Sanchez? Gillaspie? Flowers? Robertson/Duke? You love the Royals, the Cubs, the Astros, the Pirates, probably the Rays. A couple things those teams have in common are they haven't won anything for 30 years and they had to be very bad a very long time to get where they are at. The White Sox have been bad for 3 years, and people here can't take it. They tried to win this year, but the rebuild on the fly is still in order. They did surrender a 2nd and 3rd round pick, and sent some prospects to Oakland. (Not to much whining about Semien lately) But unless you are in JR's will, the rebuild is still on. They do have a plan. Some of it is going to hinge on some of their players playing up to their capabilities.

The quickest fix will be several players returning to their former levels of play. It isn't so crazy it will happen.