Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 23, 2016 -> 08:44 AM) Ya, that's not that happening. Betts and JBJ alone are close to equal in value to Sale over the next 3-4 years due to their contracts and performances. You aren't getting Moncada/Benintendi/Devers PLUS JBJ or Betts. In a deal with the Red Sox, the best you could hope for is one of Moncada/Benintendi, one of Devers/Kopech and a couple other B-level prospects. For Chris Sale? The Red Sox just traded a top 20 prospect for Drew Pomerenz. While I'm in agreement with you on your first statement, you're seriously undervaluing him in your second.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 23, 2016 -> 07:50 AM) I think Q might be dealt before this years deadline. I'm starting to get the feeling that they will hold onto Sale until after the season where you could potentially have 20 teams bidding for his services. The problem is there aren't anywhere close to 20 teams that can provide us with what we need in a Sale trade. In fact, there are only a handful of teams and most of them are currently in a playoff race. In all honestly, now is the time to deal both Sale & Quintana, but I won't be upset if they wait until the offseason to move one of these guys.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 23, 2016 -> 07:17 AM) The Redsox aren't trading those 2 in July. If the Sox want one, wait until the offseason to fashion a trade. What they should do is ask for their top 5 prospects, and then bargain down from there. Top ML ready prospects is where the surplus lies this time of year...not with major league players. That's how you find players to fill multiple holes. If the Sox got Betts, that would be about it, except, perhaps for a low level prospect or 2. Don't trade him if that's the case. I agree with this. Bradley & Betts are both terrific players, but if the Red Sox are willing to give up one of them (only in the offseason mind you), they'll represent the majority of your return. Sure, you'd get some prospects back, but not Moncada or Benintendi types. And these guys only have four years of control left, which means you'll only have them for a year or two while your team is actually competive. Honestly, I would rather just have their top four prospects (two of whom are elite) plus Eduardo Rodriguez (value low right now) and at least one B spect. Not only are you getting back a lot more pieces (which we need), but you'd also have six years of control for the ones that do work out, which fits better into our competive timeline. Also, for all of you saying we don't move Sale unless it's the most lopsided trade in sports history, what value does Sale really provide us over the next three years? We're not winning anytime soon if we hold onto him. On top of that, his value will never be higher given the current market for starting pitching and his length of control. As that control erodes, so does his value and each & every year is another chance he gets injured. Now is definitely the time to convert Sale's incredible short term value to competive teams into an insane amount of future value for us. We will get an absolute haul if we move Sale right now, we just have to be realistic on what "insane" looks like.

QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 11:44 PM) I don't care. I agree with those who say that Bryant/Betts/Bogaerts/Correa is a starting point, and disagree with those who say that those players are more valuable than he is. You don't get a prime age ace who is on a 3/39 contract for less than that. He is, IMO the 2nd best LHP in baseball. and the only pitchers you could make an argument for being better than him for 2nd best in the game are Bumgarner and Fernandez. (Bumgarner and Fernandez pitch in the NL. Sale would have nearly Kershaw #s in the NL IMO. He'd annually flirt with, if not achieve 300 K Arrieta was a flash in the pan IMO. He'll settle in as an ace level pitcher, but not a demigod like Kershaw) So, you are essentially trading for the best (healthy) pitcher in the game, with a contract of 3/39. Think about that for a second. Whatever Kershaw is worth in a trade when healthy, think about that deal. That is what Sale is worth. Then you add in the contract. So you get the rest of his age 27 season and his 28, 29, 30 seasons(prime) while paying him no more than 13.5MM in ANY season. For a top 3 pitcher in the game at worst. So think about that again. THEN tell me he's not worth Bryant++ or Correa++, etc. Sorry dude, but Bryant >> Sale.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 11:25 PM) We're far from backed into a corner where we need to trade Q/Sale If you honestly believe this, then please explain. Tell us how you'd turn this team into a winner before Sale leaves. I haven't seen one rational argument for how re-tooling makes sense, just a lot desperation to avoid rebuilding.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 11:01 PM) The idea of doing that PLUS a deal involving Q is instantly a giant step ahead for an organization. Exactly. Plus you can get a few more prospects by dealing Frazier, Melky, Lawrie, Robertson, & Duke between now and next offseason. The system instantly goes from bottom five to one of the best in the game. And you'd still have some interesting major league pieces in Eaton, Abreu, Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer, & Jones. With all the financial savings, you could aggressively pursue any international free agents that are relatively young and don't count against bonus pools. It would no doubt be an ugly couple of years, but if executed correctly, you could have most of your pieces in place for the epic 2018-2019 free agent class and quickly become legit contenders. That's so much more attractive of a plan than attempting more retooling.

There's no question in my mind the Red Sox are the best fit for Sale, because you don't have to get a piece off their major league roster. Moncada, Benintendi, Devers, & Kopech is an incredible start. Throw in a couple more B-level prospects and you have a deal too good to pass up.

1-7 since the All-Star game and Robin still has a job. Absolutely mind-boggling.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 09:37 PM) Our front office doesn't give a f*** about the Cubs. Our fanbase shouldn't care, either. And if there's one thing we have all learned, the baseball operations group cares little what "the fanbase" thinks. They know when the team in the black pinstripes wins, the seats get filled. It's not much harder than that. Well, I will 100% disagree with you here. Do you remember how long it took a chunk of our fanbase to get over the White Flag trade? You think most Sox fans would be cool with watching Sale help the Cubs win their first World Series in a 100+ years? Sure, some of the more sophisticated fans on this board would be ok with it, but Bob from Bridgeport ain't going to be happy and may never be able to forgive this ownership group. As much as it theoretically shouldn't matter, it would be the equivalent of the Red Sox selling Babe Ruth to the Yankees for a piano. And don't doubt for a second that Reinsdorf, Hahn, & KW aren't aware of this. That's not to say they wouldn't trade with the Cubs, but they definitely won't be trading the face of the franchise to them in one of the most important deals in team history.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 09:28 PM) I would take Schwarber, Contreras, and Baez. I don't necessarily need Bryant. I'd need another high-end prospect like Torres or Jimenez plus a B spect or two. Unfortunately, any deal with the Cubs is a pipe dream as our front office helping them win a World Series would be seen as an betrayal by a large chunk of our fanbase.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 09:17 PM) Sorry Cubbies. It starts with Bryant. Come on man, Bryant is arguably a more valuable asset than Sale. I really hope the Sox's demands aren't that outrageous or we're going to miss out on a huge opportunity here.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 03:55 PM) Are they prepared to give up Moancada, Swihart, Benintendi, and Bogaerts? *That is officially the craziest "fleecing" deal I've ever typed out. If Boston is willing to give up all three of Moncada, Benintendi, & Devers, we wouldn't need to touch their major league roster IMO. Moncada & Benintendi are legit top 10 prospects and probably only a year away from being major league ready. I'll take that as a substitute for a young, major league bat. Need Devers, another top 100 prospect, and a coupke B types to make the deal right now. Otherwise, I'm holding Sale until the offseason.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 03:12 PM) And it begins. Sale to the Red Sox for Moncada, Benintendi, Devers, Kopech, + Quintana to the Dodgers for Urias, Bellinger, Verdugo, + Was going to do this before, but here's your potential 2019 roster with these trades. We'd also have a boatload of money and an epic free agent class to spend it on to fill in the gaps (obviously not all these guys would work out). Someone please tell me how holding onto Sale and/or Quintana makes more sense? 1B: Bellinger 2B: Moncada SS: Anderson 3B: Devers LF: Verdugo CF: Benintendi RF: Eaton DH: Abreu C: Collins #1: Urias #2: Rodon #3: Fulmer #4: Kopech #5: Adams/Hansen CL: Burdi SU: Jones

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 03:01 PM) Jon Heyman‏ @JonHeyman The #WhiteSox are at least listening on offers for Sale and Quintana, with the #RedSox among many interested parties And it begins. Sale to the Red Sox for Moncada, Benintendi, Devers, Kopech, + Quintana to the Dodgers for Urias, Bellinger, Verdugo, +

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 02:31 PM) I do not trust this organization and their professional scouting ability to make the right choices in trading these players. Why? Because they missed on Avi Garcia & Matt Davidson? You always have to accept the fact that some of your prospects are going bust, which is why you need a lot of them. This front office's downfall was relying on 100% of them to work out in recent years. We had no depth when we started going for it again and it ended up costing us in the end. I'm not sure how much I blame Hahn & KW for that, because it's very possible Reinsdorf told them to go for it against their wishes. Don't get me wrong, I'm not giving the front office a free pass here because they've clearly made some mistakes. Having said that, I'm not passing on the opportunity of a lifetime because there's a non-zero chance they fail, especially when the alternative is more half-assing it.

We have a very unique opportunity here. The demand for starting pitching is insane, we have two young/cheap/controllable left-handed starters available, and there are multiple contenders in need of pitching with elite farm systems. For a franchise mired in mediocrity, this is an opportunity of a lifetime. The packages we could receive would be unprecedented and inject an incredible amount of talent into our organization. I would fully expect seven top 100 prospects (several of them elite) & another couple B types. And that's just for Sale & Quintana. Trading guys like Robertson, Duke, Frazier, Melky, & Lawrie would only increase the overall haul. By the end of next offseason, we could easily have the best farm system in baseball, quality major league assets in Eaton, Abreu, Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer, & Jones, huge draft & international pools for 2017, and a ton of financial flexibility. That's option A and is right there for the taking. Option B is to half-ass it three more years, lose Sale for a comp pick (if they still exist), and remain in mediocrity for the foreseeable future. I can't believe we're even having this debate. I realize that rebuilding is painful, but there is no doubt in my mind it's the quickest path for us becoming a legit playoff contender again.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 10:20 AM) This seems like the best bet. Hopefully, they should get at least 1 or 2 MLB ready players in the positions who mentioned. This will 2-3 holes to fill over the next year or two. Frazier, Melky, & Lawrie are all free agents after next season. So either you're spending big money to lock up those guys (all three who are flawed and two in their 30s) or have to fill another three holes with limited internal options. I really feel like people are grasping at straws here. Look at our weak minor league system. Look at the next two free agent classes which are both poor. Realize Chris Sale, our most important player, has three years of control left. Combine all those facts and really try to come up with a legit plan to win before you lose Sale for nothing. Best case scenario you get one year with him before leaves for a $200M+ contract and that's assuming everything goes right. Seems like many posters here are so anti-rebuild that they'd like to half-ass it for another three years.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 09:51 AM) This is about where I'm at. If we build the next core around Sale, Q, Rodon, Fulmer and Anderson I won't be mad. Maybe Eaton and Abreu stick around. Pray that Hostetler's drafts keep looking positive. How in the world do you build a core around those guys before Sale hits free agency in three years? Collins might only need one season in the minors, but even college guys like Call & Fisher will need two. And honestly, there isn't much there after those three except for maybe Engel & Trey M and both are huge wild cards at this point. Honestly, there's no rational argument to hold onto Sale & Quintana at this point.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 10:49 PM) Q for Soler and Happ is the dumbest thing I have ever seen Lol...I was thinking the same exact thing.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 06:13 PM) Great...I'll take Profar. Thank you. Profar has three years of control and is represented by Boras. He can't be the biggest piece in a Quintana trade.

I really hope that this front office and ownership group doesn't blow this current opportunity. You don't have to move Sale or Quintana right now, but you should be actively listening on all offers and prepared to move them in the offseason.

Trade both of them or trade neither. Stop half-assing it, this team isn't winning anytime soon without both of them, so why hold onto just one? The good news is we have some interesting, high-upside arms in the system. If we go full-rebuild, we can give Fulmer some additional seasoning in the minors next year, can try developing Burdi as a starter, can give Adams a full year in AA, and take our time with Hansen. Those four plus Rodon is a nice starting point towards building a quality rotation and they should all be ready by 2018 hopefully. And that doesn't include anyone you get in the firesale or potentially draft with a high pick this year. The real concern is on the postion player side and that's what needs to be prioritized if we sell. Anderson is the only guy on the major league roster that you definitely keep and feel confident about building around. I think there's some hope for Saladino becoming a solid regular at 2B, but that's far less of a certainty. Eaton still has five years of control after this season, so an argument could be made for keeping him. But that's pretty much it. On the minors side, Collins looks like the real deal as a hitter, whether he ends up at catcher, 1B, or DH. After him is a bunch of question marks and guys a long ways away. If trading Sale & Quintana can get you four elite hitting prospects (top 50) plus some other high-end talents, we can quickly rebuild this team in a couple of years. Obviously you have to get those deals right, but if executed correctly, it's probably our fastest route towards competing.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 06:18 AM) The problem is if all these guys suck and are going to be free agents fairly soon, who would give up anything of value to get them? Doesn't the constant trolling get tiring for you? First off, you know the guys we're discussing don't suck. Some of them may be having down years, but they aren't bad baseball players. Second, you're not new to baseball and know that teams pay a premium for talent at the deadline all the time. The fact that none of the guys we'd likely deal are pure rentals is a plus. Not sure why I even waste my time responding to this nonsense. We all get you're anti-rebuild, you've made that perfectly clear, but why can't you at least be objective in your arguements instead of simply posting fluff?

Profar has three years of control left and is represented by Boras. He can't be the main chip in a deal for Sale or Quintana.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 08:12 PM) whitesoxdave ‏@barstoolWSD 31m31 minutes ago Chicago, IL I am getting indications that the #WhiteSox may be re-considering their stance of being "non-sellers" in the coming weeks whitesoxdave ‏@barstoolWSD 29m29 minutes ago Chicago, IL I won't name teams/players yet but have gotten semi-specific details Awesome news. I've never been in favor of a full-fledged rebuild in my entire life as a Sox fan, but I'm certain it's the right move at the moment given where the franchise stands. Still skeptical Jerry will approve a sell-off.