Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 01:58 PM) You don't trade Rodon and Anderson in a rebuild. Those are the types of guys you want to acquire, not trade away. The rest...sure. Though I'd still have really tough time trading Eaton and Abreu. I'd want packages just a tad under what I'd want for Q for those two. Oh I'm not suggesting you trade Rodon or Anderson, I'm just saying a rebuild is when you trade core guys (and they're simply part of our core). Obviously the guys should be looking to deal are Sale, Quintana, Abreu, & Eaton. And I'm in agreement with you, I'd rather deal the pitchers than the position players, but would open to dealing any and all of them if the returns are right.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 01:39 PM) No it's not. Trading veterans for minor leaguers is rebuilding. Why would it only be considered rebuilding if they traded Sale and/or Q? They aren't going to trade everyone away. Rebuilding means trading from your core, so guys like Sale, Quintana, Abreu, Eaton, Rodon, Anderson, & Jones. Trading a bunch of guys a year from free agency and coming off poor seasons is definitely not rebuilding. Instead of arguing semantics, explain how such a strategy (deal the complimentary pieces) gets us closer to the playoffs or helps us achieve sustainable success.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 01:32 PM) It is possible to do a near-full rebuild by not trading Sale and Q but it would involve trading just about everyone else - Eaton, Abreu, Melky, Gonzalez, Frazier, Robertson, Lawrie. Should be able to get some really nice pieces for those guys. Sure it won't be the haul that Sale and Q would bring back but I would still expect 4 or 5 top 100 prospects that are near MLB ready (Eaton should bring back 2 by himself). Would be great to get another young high profile arm to round out that rotation. A rotation consisting of Sale, Q, Rodon, Fulmer, and Glasnow would be fun to watch even if the offense stinks while guys like Collins, Anderson, Tilson, Sanchez, Navarez, Engel and whoever else comes over via trade take their lumps. Certainly that would be one way to clear major salary ahead of the 2018-2019 FA class. Would likely clear enough payroll to be below $75MM heading into 2017-2018 free agency. So you want to trade everything but Sale & Quintana for a one year shot in 2019? Because Sale will be gone after that season. Why not just trade Sale? Is that one year window really worth what your forgoing in value today for Chris?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 01:20 PM) Getting something is better than nothing. I imagine Melky and Frazier and Robertson have some value around the league. Once they trade Sale and or Q for prospects that don't turn into MVP candidates, everyone who is so gung ho to get rid of every player, will change their tune. They can always trade Sale or Q in a year or 2. No sense in trading him just to get rid of him. If trading an ace for prospects is a guarantee to make teams better, I have no idea why teams pay them so much money. But that's not a rebuild, that's just more retooling. And how does it help us maximize the three year window we have with Chris under control? You're punting at least the 2017 season by trading guys like Frazier, Melky, & Robertson and now have three big holes to fill before the 2018 season. If all goes well, which is unlikely for reasons listed numerous times, you have two seasons to compete before you lose Chris Sale for nothing. Does that really sound like a good plan to you? Again, this retooling nonsense has to end. Like Hahn said in the STH event, we aren't going to get better until we take a step back. More retooling is just delaying the inevitable. There are obvious risks when it comes to rebuilding, but they are far less than more half-ass retooling. Our track record over the past 10 seasons speaks for itself.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 12:25 PM) He mentioned Melky, Robertson, Frazier, and Lawrie's contracts expiring soon. I would imagine they may be the first lined up out the door. Although if they do trade Frazier, I would hang on to Lawrie. He isn't going to bring much back, and has had nice stretches this year. You could put him at 3B, and hope he plays well enough to flip at the deadline if they aren't winning. It would really be radical to trade Sale and Q. I would imagine that is not the plan unless they get an offer they can't turn down. And what's that going to accomplish? Trading a bunch of guys coming off average to below average seasons with only a year left of control? How does that make us better exactly? That's just a half-ass rebuild and we'll end up losing Sale in three year with no chance of being competitive. You're so anti rebuild that you're not even making sense any more.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 7, 2016 -> 07:09 AM) You would think all of our core assets are gone after next season with the way some people talk. They are all locked up thru 2019 at a minimum. Here's the other thing - the original core of Eaton, Sale, Q, and Abreu is growing as we speak by adding guys like Rodon and Anderson and hopefully in the near future Fulmer, Burdi, Collins, and Hansen. Can always retool by not only signing FA but also by trading expiring contracts like Melky, Robertson, Gonzalez, and Frazier too if they don't fit into the plan thru 2019. Sure they won't get the haul of a Sale or Q but did anyone think the Cubs would get the type of hail they got for expiring contracts Feldman or Shark/Hammel? You're basically arguing for non-stop retooling with this post, which is exactly why we're in this predicament in the first place. And how does trading the expiring contracts of B/C type players help us become competive before Sale leaves for free agency exactly? You're only making it even more abundantly clear that while our window is technically three years, it's more likely one year unless several prospects make leaps in 2017. And I'm not sure who you think those guys may be. Collins might be able to fill a spot in 2018 if we give up on him as a catcher. I don't think anyone else from our 2016 draft class, other than Burdi, will help before 2019. Who else in the system do you expect to become a major league contributor before then? I get that rebuilding is a painful proposition, but it's the right move for the organzation at this point time.

12 Team 0.5 PPR League QB Cam Newton (5th) RB Todd Gurley (1st) RB C.J. Anderson (3rd) WR Allen Robinson (2nd) WR T.Y. Hilton (4th) WR Michael Floyd (6th) FL Rashad Jennings (7th) FL Stefon Diggs (8th) TE Zac Miller (13th) DEF Broncos (12th) BE Christine Michael (9th) BE Torrey Smith (10th) BE Tajae Sharpe (11th) BE Darren Sproles (14th) BE Matthew Stafford (15th) Thoughts? Obviously TE is a huge concern and will be a focus area on the waiver wire. I also have some worries about my WR3 & WR4 (Floyd & Diggs), but don't think either was a huge reach where selected and both have significant upside. And I was ecstatic to get Michael in the 9th & Sharpe in the 11th, two guys I had targeted in the 9 to 11 range.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 11:44 PM) Rick and / or Kenny can say whatever they want. The only person who when they speak matters, is JR. And all indications are pointing to him 'not" wanting a rebuild. We'll see. Maybe he can be talked into changing his mind. And another poster mentioned a good point. The Sox are near the bottom in attendance and at the bottom in TV ratings. If they suck another five years because of a true rebuild, from that standpoint it doesn't matter. They are getting more than enough revenue from the different streams to keep themselves going. JR won't be wondering where his next meal is going to come from if they decide to tear it down and average 12 thousand a game. Mark Multiple people on the radio have suggested Reinsdorf is open to a rebuild. And Dick Allen said that Rick Hahn strongly hinted at a rebuild today during a season ticket holder event. Throw in the fact that Burdi & Fulmer aren't being called up and the bogus reasons why, and I honestly believe we're heading for a rebuild.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 09:55 PM) Good. Get him to W-S next April and have him starting games. Birmingham, but yes I agree. And if we really go the rebuild route, I fully expect us to give him that opportunity.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 09:21 PM) Eh, I think some fans like to complain for the sake of complaining and I'm not sure that's better than the who-gives-a-damners. Many Sox fans have stated that they have no interest in attending games with the current state of the team so I would expect that will turn around if they get the full rebuild they so desperately desire. I'll be curious to see what the attendance figures show, numbers don't lie...Wouldn't be shocked to see them dip below 20k/game if they roll out a couple consecutive seasons of 90+ losses after this year. Who cares about any of this? We need to rebuild now because we're unable to build around our core assets before their value is completely gone. It doesn't matter if fans are miserable for the next few years or if attendance drops. All that matters is building a major league core and minor league pipeline that can lead to sustainable success. Sucks we're at this point and I don't look forward to the next few years of White Sox baseball, but it's the only option for us at this time.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 12:56 AM) I wish I had a group of guys committed enough for that format. That would be awesome. I have ended up with CJ Anderson in all four leagues. I like him in Kubiak's offense with that defense. He was hurt at the beginning of last year and once he got a break he came back and was awesome. They dropped his side kick too. Everything seems like his stock is trending up but he fell in all of my leagues. Basically that's what I have in Anderson and I'd like to hear your opinions on him. He's only my RB1 in the 2QB league where I jumped Newton/Brady/ODB/Robinson/Allen early. What rounds did you land him in? I have my draft tonight and am targeting him for the 3rd round. Not sure if he'd make it to the 4th round in our league, where quality RBs go early despite it being 0.5 PPR.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Sep 5, 2016 -> 11:52 PM) Ignoring all of your melodramatic bulls***, I'll answer your actual civilized question here. He was taken 16th overall. 6th RB off the board. And he took Doug Martin and Jeremy Hill in the 3rd and 5th. He contacted me and said he wants to trade one of his extra RB for a WR. Do you have a bunch of weird rules? How does David Johnson go 16th and why did you pass on him twice? People are going to need to better understand the rules/scoring of your league in order to critique your roster.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Sep 5, 2016 -> 11:26 PM) Here is my team. I am laughable at RB, but I think everything else is solid. Currently have a trade offer out of Allen Hurns for RB David Johnson. Don't expect him to accept, but plan on countering with Eric Decker or Keenan Allen if/when he rejects it. 10 DeAndre Hopkins, Hou WR 11 Rob Gronkowski, NE TE 30 Keenan Allen, SD WR 31 Doug Baldwin, Sea WR 50 Latavius Murray, Oak RB 51 Eric Decker, NYJ WR 70 Melvin Gordon, SD RB 71 Tom Brady, NE QB 90 Giovani Bernard, Cin RB 91 Allen Hurns, Jax WR 110 Isaiah Crowell, Cle RB 111 Seahawks D/ST D/ST 130 Matthew Stafford, Det QB 131 Bilal Powell, NYJ RB 150 Dorial Green-Beckham, Phi WR 151 Cairo Santos, KC K I'm sorry, but are you f***ing serious with those offers? David Johnson is a top two RB. Why would anyone trade you him for the garbage you're proposing? And in a ten team league...wow just wow. I'd be personally offended if someone offered me any of those players for Johnson. Where the hell was he taken in your league and why didn't you draft him yourself if you have the balls to offer this guy a 10th round receiver for him?

QUOTE (spiderman @ Sep 5, 2016 -> 11:16 PM) How much is left on Shields deal after this season, and what do the White Sox owe? Roughly $40M and we owe $20M. Seems unlikely he would retire and pass up on that much money, but you never know if he keeps performing like this.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 5, 2016 -> 09:43 PM) Fowler - CF Eaton - RF Abreu - 1B Frazier - 3B Melky - LF Moreland or Alvarez (whoever is cheaper) - DH Wieters - C Lawrie/Saladino - 2B Anderson - SS Sale, Q, Rodon, Gonzalez, Fulmer/Volquez That team should absolutely compete for a playoff spot next year IMO. Wouldn't take a drastic payroll increase either. Fowler would be a legit upgrade in CF, but Moreland would only be a small one at DH/1B and Wieters doesn't seem to be much of an upgrade at all at C. That's not nearly enough improvement to make us serious contenders and will cost us a 1st round pick to boot. Not to be a dick, but that's a half-ass offseason plan if I've ever seen one, which is exactly what we need to avoid. Either go big or blow this s*** up. Can't keep being stuck in the middle.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Sep 5, 2016 -> 02:26 PM) If you wanna compete, you can make 1 or 2 dumpster dive moves. The White Sox would be depending on much more than that which is a recipe for disaster. IMO, Abreu, Eaton, Frazier and Anderson are the only good everyday players we have. Anderson has the best chance at being a dynamic player (think Kris Bryant or Anthony Rizzo as examples of dynamic players). Frazier has great power. Abreu is a good overall player but they need a lot more. Dumpster diving is not the way to accomplish filling out that many roster spots. I simply don't see how they fix this squad until they deal everyone away or decide to have a 200 mil payroll. The Sox can compete next year if Abreu & Frazier both bounce back (~3 WAR players) and they fill their holes in CF, DH/1B, & C with good to great players. I'm talking about signing Encarnacion & Ramos and trading for a guy like Charlie Blackmon. Do all three and you suddenly have a team with enough talent to withstand the grind of a 162 game season. Do much less, and you're relying on above-average luck and health to be competive. The two questions though are if adding all three of those pieces is even possible and whether or not it's the right long term answer. Signing those free agents will cost one and possibly two picks and our 1st rounder is not protected. Plus you'll have to beat numerous other suitors in a weak market and lock up significant payroll flexibility into guys on the wrong side of 30 (Ramos turns 30 next August) without superstar appeal and likely put yourself out of commission for the epic 2018/19 free agent class. And god only knows if we have the chips to get a guy like Blackmon without dipping into your 2016 draft class. Fulmer would probably have to be included in any package and then you're hurting your starting pitching depth and quite possibly dealing your #5 starter, which creates another hole. So long story short, adding the pieces necessary to compete is going to be costly and basically would require you going "all in" for Sale's remaining three years. And that's only possible if Reindsdorf is willing to open the checkbook and the front office can execute their plan, both which didn't happen last offseason in a buyer's market. I just don't see it happening, and fully expect more dumpster diving if they in fact go for it.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 5, 2016 -> 12:02 PM) That's a very dramatic post but still doesn't change my stance that signing a few players this offseason and seeing if it comes together during the first half of 2017 is a good approach. If they are out of the race next July then sure tear it up. The Sox aren't losing any players of value this offseason and guys like Melky and Robertson might both be MORE valuable next July then they were this year or this offseason since they will have less money remaining on their contracts. I see no reason to be in a big rush here. This starting staff is going to be really great next season with the emergence of Rodon and Fulmer and possible addition of a capable #5 starter. Fill the holes in CF, C, and DH and see what happens. Players like Moreland and Wieters are not dumpster dives like Rollins, Latos, Avila, etc. but they will require JR to open the pocketbook a bit wider since they are another tier up. What happens if Sale goes down with an injury? I'd argue no franchise has more of their overall value tied up into one player than the Sox with Chris. If he gets injured next season, not only do your chances of competing in 2017 go out the window, but you're ability to turn him into assets with significant future value could be all but gone. And the damage that would do this franchise would be beyond catastrophic. Many posters here are scared of a rebuild in general, imagine what that would be like if we start it off by getting nothing of value for Sale. Sure, if they're going to fill all their holes with actual impact talent, then it's a risk I'm willing to take. But if we're talking about more dumpster diving or C-level free agents, then let's get started with the rebuild this franchise desperately needs instead of needing everything to go right to even sniff the playoffs.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 07:50 PM) With 2 teams in the same market with stadiums within 15 (?) miles of each other they should cut the market size in half. Half of the Chicago metropolitan area would still rank as the 10th largest in the country.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 02:16 PM) The back end of the Sox rotation makes one want Danks and Noesi back. John Danks was absolutely horrific this year, there's nothing that would make me want him back. It's just too bad that after cutting him loose we immediately traded for the right-handed version of him.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 01:50 PM) I find it odd we Americans complain about the corrupt politicians yet we are about to elect one of the most corrupt ever in a landslide vote. What is going on here, America?? Great post. Are you really asking this? Donald Trump is the only alternative and probably the biggest threat to our world's well-being. It sucks that these are our only candidates, but a corrupt Hilary >>>>>>>>>> an insane Trump and it's not even debatable.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 10:36 AM) Why don't we qualify like the Cardinals and Tigers do for those mid and small market compensation picks if our operating revenue is in the 20's? Just curious. They're based on market size, not how well you operate within your market.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 01:12 AM) Sox still have 11th pick. 4.5 GB of Philly for 10th pick. 13.5 GB of MIN for 1st pick And to think this season can't get any worse, we're going to be just good enough to end up with the 11th pick. I don't see how we can make up 4.5 games on the Phillies at this point.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 3, 2016 -> 07:02 PM) Even if Sanchez hit .325 the final month, would anyone want him to have the 2b job over Lawrie and/or Saladino next year? No way in hell. I'm guessing Lawrie will keep his job, but if anyone should replace him it's Saladino.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 3, 2016 -> 04:11 PM) No one is happy with how the team is playing this year but there is no denying the fantastic front end of the rotation that has developed which has an ability to become even deeper if Fulmer reaches his potential. There is nothing wrong with signing a veteran on a short term deal for additional depth and to support the back end of the rotation. Heck even everyone's favorite team around here the Cubs signed 33 year old Jason Hammel to a 2 year deal to do exactly what I'm describing. Similarly Doug Fister was signed to a 1 year deal by the Astros. You just can't count on these guys to be front of the rotation starters but a low to mid 4 ERA and 160+ IP is a perfectably reasonable expectation and very valuable. Nobody expected that from guys like Latos, Paulino, etc. but I would expect that from guys like Volquez and Fister, which are another tier up. JR has to be willing to spend that extra $ to get guys that are serviceable rather than scrap heap headed out of the league types. This would mean expanding the payroll another $15-20MM next season. How do you expect the Sox to have the money to sign another starter when we're already paying Shields $10M and will need significant financial resources to fix the offense?

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Sep 3, 2016 -> 02:04 PM) Knowing our organization its the next logical hire. Surprised Willie Harris isnt hired as our hitting coach next with Bobby Jenks as the pitching coach. Give it some time, Willie Harris is the hitting coach at Great Falls.