ChiSox59

QUOTE (kwill @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:37 PM) I was just reading the Prospect List on the Pirates and thought the same package. I think the White Sox would have to throw a bullpen arm in there as well. Robertson or Jones. Meh. Jones is a lot more than a throw in. I want more if Jones is included. Robertson, sure I guess. Jennings maybe.

After reading around, sounds like a lot of Pittsburgh fans think Keller is as good of a prospect as Glasnow, just may not be recognized nationally as such yet. Meadows, Bell, Keller and Elias Diaz would have me very happy.

I too, am interested to see where Giolito falls on top prospect lists when they're updated. My guess is somewhere between 10-20, and I expect Lopez to be just behind him. I think Lopez still profiles as a starting pitcher, and the Sox must believe that too. As Jerksticks said, watch the highlights of his 11k game. Wow he looks nasty. I think Giolito will be fine. He needs some consistency. Coop is the right guy to work with him. I expect him up in June, and while he'll still have some lumps, I think he'll flash his ace upside. Here is to hoping his FB is up in the high 90s to start the year in AAA. If you watch highlights from him last year, he doesn't use his legs or core very much. Its all arm. I think the Sox will work with him on that.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:51 AM) I would recommend listening to Callis on Garfein's podcast dropped last night. He wasn't that worried about fastball decline and mentioned how the Nats were jerking him up and down after each start. It's more easy for me to imagine and understand Giolito after going through the ups and downs with Rodon. It's hard to imagine how a guy with a 97 fastball and slider like he has not dominating, and left handed to boot! But to consistently harnass that power isn't always a clear line. http://www.csnchicago.com/chicago-white-so...uture-white-sox Giolito is righthanded.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 10:13 AM) So, I gotta come in and defend the Pirates here. This is a team that won 98 games in 2015 and deserved to. If McCutchen is still able to put up all star numbers, this is a team with a number of strengths. In the OF, you've got 3 plus bats and at least 2 plus defenders - Marte is a borderline all star every year, McCutchen has won MVP awards, Polanco is 24, has gotten better every year, and had an above average bat last year. If his power develops as he ages he'll be an all star, so there's 3 borderline all stars and a guy who has been an MVP. That OF on paper is competitive for best in baseball. Their IF isn't filled with stars like their OF is, but Kang, Harrison, Freese, and Mercer are all 1-3 WAR players in a normal year. Decent defense, decent bats, fills in a fairly deep lineup when you have those 3 big OF bats. 1b has been a weak spot for them for years now, but Josh Bell pencils into that role nicely right now. Catcher - Cervelli again, not an all star, but a good strong catcher and handles a staff well. Their pitching rotation - Gerrit Cole is a legit number 1 starter, follow that by Taillon, Glasnow, and Kuhl and you have a young, strong, cheap starting rotation to pair with him. Bullpen has been a strength for years, and they've had an excellent record of both developing pitchers and of pulling out reclamation projects. What happened to them last year? Well first of all their pitching rotation got hurt and fell apart. Cole hit the DL, Liriano was terrible, that took a rotation that was near the top of the NL in 2015 down towards the bottom last year. They had to play a lot of rookies, the rookies have talent but you can only get so far with that young of a rotation. On top of that, McCutchen fell apart - that's the difference between being in the WC race and out of it right there, you don't replace an MVP who has a terrible year. With the young pitching they have, the only reason why that team can't be competitive with the Cubs and Cardinals again is if the same things happened this year. If McCutchen's career is really finished, then they're not competitive unless they trade him, and if Cole can't stay healthy then that does what Sale being hurt would have done to us - destroys them. That's a strong roster if a few things go well. Adding in Quintana could be a really good fit - if they're worried about injuries then add in the most reliable pitcher you can find into that #2 slot and you've made that rotation into as good of a rotation on paper as there is in that division, and if you could do it without subtracting Bell or anyone from the big league rotation by using Meadows as the key piece, then the baseball logic works. That doesn't guarantee they'll beat the Cubs, they need Cole to be healthy and McCutchen to be MVP caliber again to do that, but they would be a strong roster on paper and that's a good place to be. There are other ways to make that work if they got a full return for McCutchen also, so there's a good match on paper for that franchise. So, Balta, I know you're second (first?) team is the Bucs. What do you see as a fair trade for both sides? I see you included Bell in your lineup above, so I assume you think he's not going to be part of the package.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:52 AM) He has very little power and you can't possibly expect his OBP numbers to stay at that level as he ascends through the minors. A guy with a 1:1 walk to k ratio in the minors is very exciting to me. Look, I'd rather have a Meadows / Bell based package, but Meadows / Newman wouldn't be too bad either. I don't see the Sox pulling the trigger without Meadows.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 08:30 AM) Newman's minor league stats aren't all that inspiring. Is there something good about him I don't know? Yah, who wants a dude that got on base 39% of the time last year?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 06:41 AM) Who would their 1B be if they traded Bell? Can't see them subtracting from their major league roster unless they have an obvious replacement. We could include Frazier. I think Meadows / Bell has to be the first 2. Then fill in from there.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 01:18 PM) Certainly interesting if the White Sox would take back Headley in the deal to save the Yankees some money moving forward Just for sh**ts and gigs, I wonder what a package with Headley coming back could look like. To Yankees: Quintana Frazier To White Sox: Headley Torres Frazier Rutherford Judge Lol, doubt it. I have a hard time imagining the 2 years and $26M they owe Headley moves the meter enough to give up 4 of their top 5 prospects. A man can dream though.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 01:08 PM) Ooh, taking on Headley to make this happen would be a very smart move if the Yankees were going to give up both top 50 guys in addition to the 4 pack. The White Sox take on payroll, it's worth a huge amount to the Yankees, they can go after Arrieta next summer more freely afterwards. I might even throw in our Frazier for them if that would help, he's a short term commit that doesn't push up their '18 payroll either. Intriguing idea for sure.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 12:55 PM) No way they'd give up all 3, maybe 2 if we're lucky. That said, I'd like to see the Sox avoid the high K power guys like Judge since they've shown they have trouble developing those types. I think Andujar would be more likely to develop well with the Sox, and makes the Yankees more likely to pull the trigger since he's not as highly ranked of a prospect. Right...which is why I said a Frazier, Torres, Judge, and Fowler package makes me giddy.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 12:46 PM) I think you meant to say Judge here, but why? He's extremely likely to bust with his alarmingly high K rate and huge body that likely won't hold up. Think Adam Dunn, but with more Ks. I'd rather have Andujar, and I think he'll be the more successful player long term, despite his not being as highly rated as a prospect. Because he's the third piece. I don't love him, but we have space for a ML ready OF, and he has a bunch of upside. If we could get Rutherford instead of Judge, but still get Torres and Frazier, I'd prefer that, but I doubt that is going to happen.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 12:38 PM) Interestingly, at this particular Yankees fans' blog/website, the author of this article thinks the fair package for someone of Quintana's caliber would be "two of Jorge Mateo, Clint Frazier, Blake Rutherford, and Gleyber Torres; one of James Kaprielian, Aaron Judge, Justus Sheffield, and someone lower like Tyler Wade, Dustin Fowler, or Domingo Acevedo." He goes onto warn the Yankee fans about "prospect hugging", and does a rather credible job of describing what a great pitcher Q is. Thoughtful and fair analysis, I think! http://www.pinstripealley.com/2016/12/20/1...ford-sale-eaton Frazier, Torres, Judge, and Fowler would get me giddy.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 11:14 AM) If no team wanted him with the Phillies offering to pay almost all of his remaining deal last year, no one will want him next year. A minor league deal? Or a $1M deal? Who cares? Why not?

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 08:35 AM) That dude is cooked. He needs to retire. He hit 25 home runs in 330 ABs last year. He'll be cheap. He wouldn't be my first option, but I wouldn't hate it either.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 11:03 AM) I would absolutely take Greg Holland off the market. Granted if it were between us and a contending team, he'd likely go there. Edit: unless of course, we offered a few million more which we can do. Yah. Also would like to see Rasmus, or even Revere.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 10:59 AM) I honestly don't really see anyone else moving to be honest. Maybe Quintana if they get an offer they like but that's about it. Everyone else potentially in July or next off-season. Yah, I don't know. Wouldn't be surprised either way. I would like to see them sign some guys to 1 year deals though if they don't plan to continue to subtract.

I wouldn't mind the Sox taking a flyer on Richie Schaffer who was DFA to make space. If he makes it through the NL, not a terrible waiver claim. Especially if the Sox plan to move more guys.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 10:30 AM) From this board. In Houston we are talking Tucker. NY outside of Frazier and Sheffield (whom I'd bet anything NY will not trade in regards to JS) is Torres/Mateo, Rockies is Rodgers. If we want near ready position players they look a lot more like Judge, whom the board is terrified of. Gotcha. I thought you were referring to actual sources.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 10:26 AM) Virtually every trade package has the White Sox taking 19 year olds as headliners. We are going to get more risk in a Quintana trade, but the MLB has just seen a huge graduation of players last year so that should be expected. Let's just trust our scouts. If we get Torres, I'd feel thrilled. Where are you seeing this?

I remember the Sox being pretty high on Winarski as a possible late inning reliever a couple years ago. Saw he was awful last year.

I think Shields will bounce back decently next year. 29 starts 9-12 185 IP 157 K 80 BB 4.13 ERA Not too shabby for a 4/5 guy.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 04:28 PM) .500 by June first would mean that everything possible goes right for the White Sox You're asking a ton of Gonzalez, Shields and Holland plus the bullpen. The offense could be better if Abreu and Frazier get hot, Anderson and Melky hit, but Avi and catcher will likely be black holes I actually think Liriano will play quite a bit in RF. I expect they to sign a Catcher, but yah, the production there will be bad, as it is on most teams. Its a total what if game. Trading Q makes this pitching staff pretty bad, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's moved still. I expect Giolito and Lopez to be in the rotation by mid June regardless. At the end of the day, I expect at least a few more subtractions from this team before all is said and done.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 04:09 PM) The White Sox roster in 2016 played downright horrific baseball for the last four and a half months of the season. That roster has since subtracted Chris Sale and Adam Eaton. So I'm not sure how it would work now where a simple "plug" in CF and DH would raise this now Sale-less and Eaton-less roster to anywhere remotely approaching "respectable". I expect better seasons from Frazier and Abreu. I expect Rodon to take a big step forward. I expect Shields to be less of a pumpkin. I don't think they'll be good, but I don't think it is that crazy that this team could be around .500 June 1 adding a Colby Rasmus, and a DH (there are plenty of options). I don't think its likely, but its possible.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 03:23 PM) It seems like you can say that about a lot of guys as it seems quite a few have no market (Melky, Frazier, D-Rob). Which again means that if Q is not traded and the Sox plug a couple holes (CF and DH), they actually will have a somewhat respectable roster on opening day