Bob Sacamano

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 11, 2016 -> 06:53 AM) What's laughable is to think they will be worth move in July, next offseason, etc. The only reason to hold onto to some of these guys is because there may not be enough buyers in a single offseason with the resources to acquire them. We may have no choice but to let teams restock their farm systems and let some of their low level prospects develop into more proven commodities. But you're also taking a huge risk that these future markets won't be a huge drop off from a seller's perspective and that these guys don't get hurt or see their production decline. IMO, our best offers for these guys are likely to come right now and we should take advantage of this unique seller's market as much as possible. I don't disagree they have their highest value now but that doesn't mean teams are willing to pay it especially that amount of teams for that many guys.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 11, 2016 -> 06:31 AM) Then how do we get better? Only moving one of our studs in addition to the guys who will be free agents in 2018/2019 won't move the needle enough. We'll still be a bad baseball team with a mediocre farm system. We have to commit to a direction. That doesn't mean you have to move everyone right now, but we definitely have to move several of these guys. I'd say trading anything less than three of Sale, Quintana, Eaton, Jones, & Abreu would represent a huge failure. This is the ultimate seller's market and we must take advantage. Most of these guys are at peak value right now. They can be traded off in July, next off-season, following July, etc. Taking the best offer isn't always a good thing. Its laughable to think all those guys are going to go over the next 2 months.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 11, 2016 -> 02:18 AM) Adam Eaton was a 6.0 WAR player. He is signed for the next 5 seasons for a total of $38 million. What is this losing surplus value? His highest salary the next 5 years is in year 5 when he is due $10.5 million. If you aren't getting surplus value and you trade him, you should be fired immediately. It would be a trade just to make a trade. People love prospects until they bust. Eaton and Davidson were ranked almost the same as prospects when they were acquired. One is a 6.0 WAR player, one won't be a 6.0 WAR player cumulatively for his career. You hold on to Eaton unless you are blown away with a can't miss package. 2 or 3 years from now he still will be signed for multiple seasons, at a huge bargain. This and I've been trying to say this too. It's unlikely there are a number of teams willing to give up the talent it would taje to bring back one of Sale, Quintana, Eaton, Jones and even Abreu. Some of those guys will be here next year and maybe even next which is fine since some of them are signed for 4+ years.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 06:29 PM) My point is trading everyone who is good is foolish. The last total rebuild the Sox did was when Larry Himes was the GM. Carlton Fisk stayed. Ozzie Guillen stayed., and then they had the new park to add payroll. Trading Sale, Quintana, Eaton, Jones, all of them may wind up being pretty foolish. It is fine if you expect each trade to go perfectly, but that is pretty unlikely. Eaton has 5 years left. Do you really think you will get something that turns out better? I'm basically holding Eaton and Quintana unless overwhelmed with an offer personally.

QUOTE (bjm676 @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 04:07 PM) Not sure what thread to put this in, but this could be significant and could potentially take the Dodgers out of the equation for Sale/Q Bill Shea ‏@Bill_Shea19 I'm not plugged into the MLB trade channels, but a source who is connected to Verlander's camp told me the rumored Dodgers trade is brewing. Oh, boy. It honestly makes sense that they could be in on him. They'll still have to give up some prospects and can also afford to pay him his contract. He should last longer in the NL as well. Makes a lot of sense slotting him behind Kershaw.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 03:52 PM) But wouldn't those guys have a better chance to win by signing with a rebuilding team? Follow my logic here. If they choose a team during free agency that team may or may not be in contention come the trade deadline. There are no sure things, even a team like the Cubs, as sure as you can get right now, could have a ton of injuries or other problems next season and be out of contention come July. However, if they choose a team that they know will most likely be a seller come July, that team would be looking to trade them to a contender for prospects. Far fetched? Maybe, but maybe not. It's also possible they go to a rebuilding team and just suck as they are older.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 03:36 PM) I wouldn't mind. To me, there isn't much difference between 40 wins and 65-70 wins. As a matter of fact, I'd rather win 40 games and get the #1 pick in the draft for a few years. I think he was looking at it as more of a going to the ballpark and watching the games stand point. If they trotted that starting lineup that was posted on the previous page out there most of the season, I certainly wouldn't go to games and likely not watch. Of course, there would be some good MLB ready prospects brought back in the deals so we shouldn't have to worry about seeing that kind of lineup.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 03:26 PM) Yeah, the older guys are probably looking to win, and the guys you mentioned are looking to be regulars and hopefully make themselves another contract. Yep and they can find opportunities as regulars on rebuilding teams, possibly the Sox.

Potential stop-gappy type of players who could take a 1-year deal to try to bounce back: Colby Rasmus (OF) Carlos Gomez (OF) Pedro Alvarez (DH) Kendrys Morales (DH) Ryan Hanigan (backup C or just bring him in on a minor league deal; could possibly be a mentor to young catchers in camp) Just skimming the list of free-agents, I wanted to include some older players (Holliday, Beltran, Utley) but figured they would look to try to win one more time. Also didn't want to waste time listing pitchers as there seem to be many as options.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 11:18 AM) MiLb FAs that intrigue me: C Willians Austidillo, RHP Roman Mendez, RHP Euclides Leyer, OF Kelly Dugan, LHP Brian Matusz, OF Slade Heathcott, 2B Sean Coyle, SS Cito Culver, OF Cesar Puello, LHP Rinku Singh, OF Stetson Allie, OF Mike Baxter, LHP Victor Payano, C Kellin Deglan, LHP Danny Hultzen, RHP Anthony Carter, RHP Neal Cotts What about lesser guys that are MLB free agents that will likely land MiLB deals?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 02:52 PM) That would be one of the worst teams in the history of the league. You and whoever they were playing and their fans would be the only ones who didn't have a problem with that line up. I understand the concept of rebuilding. I understand why some really want it, and some thing a step or two back makes sense, but it's clear you don't spend much money if any on White Sox baseball if you are OK with that line up. Many still do. I don't spend a lot, but many still do. They won't if they got it up the ass like that. This. There is no way a lineup would ever look like that. They would do what other rebuilding teams have done (like the Cubs in recent years) and sign MLB stop-gaps looking to bounce back on one year deals to fill in around some of the young guys and deal off in July. There is also zero chance they deal Sale, Quintana, Eaton, Abreu, Jones, Robertson and the other short-term guys in just a few months. Some of these guys will be here on Opening Day (I expect one of Sale/Q, Eaton and Abreu at least).

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 01:23 PM) I feel like trading Lawrie is unneccessary. He isn't expensive, he won't net you back anything franchise altering, and he is a low-chance lottery ticket to improve his value. I was thinking along the same lines. I don't think he has much value now and I don't think he will have much value in July. I don't see his value changing much between now and the trade deadline. He can be a cheap stop-gap at 3B for a full season if they do deal Frazier and if you want to move him in July, go for it. I would expect back something similar to what we gave up for him.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 01:00 PM) Seriously. You guys are acting like he is a bum. I know he didn't have a 4 win season, but he's still incredibly valuable to a team in need. If they didn't get a good offer for him, then just offer him the QO and get the pick. No brainer. Yep.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 12:22 PM) He'd probably get a contract similar to what Encarnacion will get IMO. Agreed. He's also younger than Encarnacion.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 11:51 AM) Hmm. Thanks for sharing. Didn't realize the advanced stats hated him THAT much. The eye test would say he is mediocre defensive 1B, but clearly the stats say otherwise. I wonder where EE would be if he played as much 1B as Abreu over past few years? Encarnacion I believe has mostly been a DH due to injuries.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 11:40 AM) DH's aren't worth nearly as much on the free agent market as actual position players. His value you should be similar to EE and he may get a 5 year $125 million deal. I bet a team that misses out on EE calls Hahn about Abreu.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 10:26 AM) Hahn made it sound like he is sticking around next year In a rebuild, I don't expect him to go anywhere.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 09:45 AM) Frazier just isn't very good. His power numbers are great, but his performance relative to his power numbers is poor. They may just end up holding onto him and offering the QO at season's end.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2016 -> 09:40 AM) It depends on how tight the market actually is. Justin Turner is available as a free agent and was substantially better than Frazier this year. Luis Valbuena put up better numbers than Frazier and is available, but he only played 90 games. The thing I can't answer right now is - how many teams don't need these guys? Houston has Bregman who will take over 3b, they don't need one. Boston may or may not want a 3b. A lot of the other competitive teams have guys they're probably pretty happy with at 3b. I only count a handful of teams that Frazier would be a clear upgrade for, some of those are like Minnesota - not going to bring in someone to replace Sano or other young guy - and they're off the list too. If someone like SF or Boston steps in to go after Turner and takes him off the market, that could create more demand, but right now this position doesn't seem like the sellers market that you see at other positions from a quick look at the leaguewide stats. Now that I look at this, Frazier might actually not be in that much demand at all. That's troublesome. I was thinking possibly Mets. They have Wright at third but there is no way you can count on him. Frazier can also be a 1B option for them though (or they can shift Wright to first).

What do you guys think is a realistic return for Frazier? I would think at least one good prospect since a team trading for him can recoup a pick with a QO (assuming it doesn't change much in the next CBA). So likely 2 good prospects?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 02:42 PM) Kyle Glaser ‏@KyleAGlaser 1h1 hour ago Manfred says he expects new CBA to be done by Dec. 1 expiration of current one This will probably make players and teams hold off until then to see if there are any changes to free agent compensation.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 02:01 PM) That may have been Rock Raines QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 02:03 PM) Yes, that was Rock. Oh ok. Knew it was someone.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 01:48 PM) Wish we could get some info from Bucket. Haven't heard from him all year. I think he was the one who had a falling out with his source. Or maybe it was someone else.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 01:15 PM) Yah, except I don't have confidence that Vazquez is any good. I don't think he is either. My preference is Swihart in all honesty and he might be the Sox preference as well. Who knows.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 9, 2016 -> 01:09 PM) Glad to hear Cameron thinks it is short. Give me Rodriguez and Vazquez in addition and I'd probably do it. Yeah. With that deal, you'd fill 3 holes at the MLB level: one created by dealing Sale, catcher spot, and an MLB-ready OF.