Mattchoo Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) Am I the only one not impressed with the Red Sox prospects? I watched a few vids and looked over all the stats of their "top" prospects and I am not sure on star talent here. I'd rather get three players like Schwarber, Baez, and Soler for Sale than these BoSox "can't miss" prospects Edited July 31, 2016 by Mattchoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 08:08 PM) Benintendi, Devers, Kopech, Vazquez, Swihart, and Travis for Q and Robertson NO. The Red Sox will not want Robertson. Not sure why you would want 2 converted left-fielders. Travis has a torn ACL, Vazquez had Tommy John, struggled on his return and got sent back to the minors and Swihart is on 60 day DL. Getting 3 guys w recent injury problems is really rolling the dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxforlife05 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Mattchoo @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 06:43 PM) Am I the only one not impressed with the Red Sox prospects? I watched a few vids and looked over all the stats of their "top" prospects and I am not sure on star talent here. I'd rather get three players like Schwarber, Baez, and Soler for Sale than these BoSox "can't miss" prospects Benintendi is like an Eaton type. Devers is very young and could become their top prospect next year if he handles AA well. Moncada is a top positional prospect in baseball. They would all be very good targets. Not to mention all of these guys fill what will be huge holes in the coming years (CF, 3B, 2B). Frees us up to trade Frazier right away. Lawrie can fill in at 2B until Moncada is ready then Lawrie can be dealt. And we can start Saladino at 3B until Devers is ready then trade Saladino. A lot of the Texas prospects are flawed in some way or have limited control. Only guys I really like out of Texas are Mazara + Odor. Obviously if you want pitching the Dodgers are the team to deal with. Edited July 31, 2016 by soxforlife05 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 whitesoxdave @barstoolWSD 4m4 minutes ago Chicago, IL I am #done talking about the trade deadline until Monday. #done https://twitter.com/barstoolWSD/status/759561310619271168 Lol this guy is something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 08:32 PM) whitesoxdave @barstoolWSD 4m4 minutes ago Chicago, IL I am #done talking about the trade deadline until Monday. #done https://twitter.com/barstoolWSD/status/759561310619271168 Lol this guy is something else He's definitely got sources, but my god, why would you leak info to this guy? I'm pretty sure he was tweeting screen-caps of text messages from two of his sources. I wouldn't trust someone with an ego as big as his. Edited July 31, 2016 by Chicago White Sox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 08:37 PM) He's definitely got sources, but my god, why would you leak info to this guy? I'm pretty sure he was tweeting screen-caps of text messages from two of his sources. I wouldn't trust someone with an ego as big as his. Well if he blocks out the name and number, then what difference does that make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 08:44 PM) Well if he blocks out the name and number, then what difference does that make? Are you f***ing serious? Would you appreciate that if you were an advanced scout leaking this information for no monetary gain? Would you like him tweeting the world what teams his sources are scouts for? Because he did that today. He's an arrogant f*** and not someone I would trust passing information to when it would cost me my job if I got caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 @JonMorosi For now, other clubs believe Chris Sale will stay with #WhiteSox. But a lot can happen between now and 4 pm ET Monday. @MLB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 09:13 PM) @JonMorosi For now, other clubs believe Chris Sale will stay with #WhiteSox. But a lot can happen between now and 4 pm ET Monday. @MLB Not saying hoping some pitcher gets hurt but if one does on one of the contending teams could change stance quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 08:48 PM) Are you f***ing serious? Would you appreciate that if you were an advanced scout leaking this information for no monetary gain? Would you like him tweeting the world what teams his sources are scouts for? Because he did that today. He's an arrogant f*** and not someone I would trust passing information to when it would cost me my job if I got caught. Ok, if his source is feeding him info, he's obviously aware that he is going to share that info with social media at this point. So if he posts a text conversation and all you can read is "Hey man, watch out for a Robertson trade here soon", how the hell does it make a difference if that was relayed in the form of a screenshot (with pertinent info redacted, obviously) or by him typing it out and putting quotes around it? How is that exposing anyone? Edited July 31, 2016 by ChiliIrishHammock24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 I truly can't see Sale getting traded. When you actually add up his value, I can't see any team coming close to giving up enough. Consider: http://www.fangraphs.com/library/the-begin...ng-trade-value/ Trade value is, more or less: 1. Current value, 2. +/- Surplus value, 3. +/- Rarity, 4. +/- The intellect or stupidity of the selling team. For Chris Sale, let's do a little back of the envelope arithmetic: 1. Current value ~5.25 average fWAR * 3.5 years = 18.4 fWAR 2. Surplus value is the difference between his contract & his production of fWAR. He's owed ~$42M thru 2019. Assuming each WAR costs $7M in free agency, he might 'cost' $128.8M to sign; Surplus value is thus: $128.8 - $42 = $86.8M. 3. There aren't as many 5 WAR players available in trade, much less a young lefty ace. In trade, such a player might be worth a handful of WAR as a 'kicker.' 4. This front office is incredibly stupid, so subtract perhaps 5 fWAR from Sale's trade value. (This is how Avi Garcia got here, & how Swisher was sold for a box of turds. ) All told, there is no logical way Sale gets traded. Or, put another way, if he IS traded in the next 2 seasons, it will mean that KW & Rick sold The Hope Diamond for the cost of cubic zirconium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 09:46 PM) I truly can't see Sale getting traded. When you actually add up his value, I can't see any team coming close to giving up enough. Consider: http://www.fangraphs.com/library/the-begin...ng-trade-value/ Trade value is, more or less: 1. Current value, 2. +/- Surplus value, 3. +/- Rarity, 4. +/- The intellect or stupidity of the selling team. For Chris Sale, let's do a little back of the envelope arithmetic: 1. Current value ~5.25 average fWAR * 3.5 years = 18.4 fWAR 2. Surplus value is the difference between his contract & his production of fWAR. He's owed ~$42M thru 2019. Assuming each WAR costs $7M in free agency, he might 'cost' $128.8M to sign; Surplus value is thus: $128.8 - $42 = $86.8M. 3. There aren't as many 5 WAR players available in trade, much less a young lefty ace. In trade, such a player might be worth a handful of WAR as a 'kicker.' 4. This front office is incredibly stupid, so subtract perhaps 5 fWAR from Sale's trade value. (This is how Avi Garcia got here, & how Swisher was sold for a box of turds. ) All told, there is no logical way Sale gets traded. Or, put another way, if he IS traded in the next 2 seasons, it will mean that KW & Rick sold The Hope Diamond for the cost of cubic zirconium. Interesting analysis, but it fails to account for the fact that the Sox can't score enough runs to play .500 ball and don't have enough offensive talent in their minor league system to remedy this. Edited July 31, 2016 by Black_Jack29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 08:57 PM) Interesting analysis, but it fails to account for the fact that the Sox can't score enough runs to play .500 ball and don't have enough offensive talent in their minor league system to remedy this. To be honest, while I share your angst in this, the ineptitude of his team mates, his manager, & the front office have little to do with what he is actually worth in trade. Trading just to trade is one way this organization has slid into the crapper. See: Peavey, Swisher, & other vets sold for nothing as examples of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 09:12 PM) To be honest, while I share your angst in this, the ineptitude of his team mates, his manager, & the front office have little to do with what he is actually worth in trade. Trading just to trade is one way this organization has slid into the crapper. See: Peavey, Swisher, & other vets sold for nothing as examples of this. Disagree on Peavy. He wasn't sold for peanuts. Garcia was a legit prospect that hasn't worked out. Montas became one and helped us land Frazier. Wendelken helped us land Lawrie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 09:19 PM) Disagree on Peavy. He wasn't sold for peanuts. Garcia was a legit prospect that hasn't worked out. Montas became one and helped us land Frazier. Wendelken helped us land Lawrie. Fair enough. But the overriding points remain: 1. Sale is (currently) too valuable to be traded. 2. Trading just to trade is one reason why this organizationis mired in mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 10:32 PM) Fair enough. But the overriding points remain: 1. Sale is (currently) too valuable to be traded. 2. Trading just to trade is one reason why this organizationis mired in mediocrity. No one is too valuable to be traded. Everyone has a price when your team is consistently this bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 09:32 PM) Fair enough. But the overriding points remain: 1. Sale is (currently) too valuable to be traded. 2. Trading just to trade is one reason why this organizationis mired in mediocrity. They're only trading him if they get an overwhelming offer. That's why he hasn't been moved. But to keep sucking and not try something else is silly. I'm not advocating trading him just to trade him but the deal needs to be right. I think it'll be this offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 10:36 PM) They're only trading him if they get an overwhelming offer. That's why he hasn't been moved. But to keep sucking and not try something else is silly. I'm not advocating trading him just to trade him but the deal needs to be right. I think it'll be this offseason. It's worse than silly. It's gross mismanagement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Deadpool @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 09:35 PM) No one is too valuable to be traded. Everyone has a price when your team is consistently this bad Ok. Go ahead & add up his current & surplus value, then come up with: 1. A package that will be fair value, & 2. A team able to make such an offer, & 3. A GM with enough cajones to thoroughly gut their org for 'one guy.' Edited July 31, 2016 by Two-Gun Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 09:36 PM) They're only trading him if they get an overwhelming offer. That's why he hasn't been moved. But to keep sucking and not try something else is silly. I'm not advocating trading him just to trade him but the deal needs to be right. I think it'll be this offseason. Even after this season, his surplus value will still be "only" ~$75M. If it happens this offseason, I would be surprised. Sale's current & surplus value will still be too expensive for most GMs to stomach, IMO. Otherwise, we agree: trade what you can, but anything less than fair value hurts this org. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 10:42 PM) Ok. Go ahead & add up his current & surplus value, then come up with: 1. A package that will be fair value, & 2. A team able to make such an offer, & 3. A GM with enough cajones to thoroughly gut their org for 'one guy.' I can see Dombrowski getting worried and offering Moncada, Benintendi, Kopech, Devers, Vazquez, Rodriguez, and Shaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 09:49 PM) I can see Dombrowski getting worried and offering Moncada, Benintendi, Kopech, Devers, Vazquez, Rodriguez, and Shaw. With the Indians making the Lucroy deal, I hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 09:49 PM) I can see Dombrowski getting worried and offering Moncada, Benintendi, Kopech, Devers, Vazquez, Rodriguez, and Shaw. Off the top of my head, that actually may not be enough, when you add up the current & surplus value. At the same time, Boston might not need a ~2 WAR SP for the rest of this season to compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 11:49 PM) I can see Dombrowski getting worried and offering Moncada, Benintendi, Kopech, Devers, Vazquez, Rodriguez, and Shaw. Ok, this is the ONE instance where I'd say you need to package Robertson with Sale to convince Dombrowski. Please let it be so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 30, 2016 -> 09:52 PM) Ok, this is the ONE instance where I'd say you need to package Robertson with Sale to convince Dombrowski. Please let it be so. And I would say bye bye Sale. Love ya and all you've done for us but that nets us 7 players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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