Quintana Rumors: Round and round and round we go

[southsider2k5]

Now the Yankees want the Sox to eat money in a Quitnana trade???

 

Yankees want to flip Robertson like they flipped Miller and Chapman, must think they have some recipe to keep him from blowing 6 run leads in the 9th inning. I honestly do not doubt them. In any case if they want Robertson + Quintana AND want the Sox to eat money (this demand coming from the Yankees still beggars belief) they must be willing to part with Torres + Rutherford and more. So that's good news for talks with other teams.

 

It also means its time for the Nationals to nut up and make their move for Robertson.

 

NYY has a chance to get under the salary cap next year for sure.

[TheFutureIsNear]

Clint Frazier, Jorge Mateo, Miguel Andujar, Albert Abreu, Ian Clarkin

 

That's my guess of what I think Cashman would offer for both Q and Robertson.

 

 

[SoxAce]

Yankees put in a claim for Robertson a couple years ago at the August waivers (Sox could've gave him to the Yanks for free if they wanted). They've always been fond of him.

[southsider2k5]

I think posters are in for a world of dissapointment if they think we'd get both Torres & Frazier in a Quintana deal. Robertson is worth something, but his addition is not resulting in another top 20 prospect, even if we pay some cash.

 

I think any framework here revolves around one of two pairs of headliners, with either Torres + Rutherford (more desirable) or Frazier + Mateo (less desirable). Perhaps adding Robertson is what's required to get the Yankees to include Torres in a trade, as he may be the lone "untouchable" in the system. I think the complementary pieces would primarily be pitching based, with maybe a lesser positional prospect like Andujar included. Honestly, a Torres, Rutherford, Sheffield, + package for Quintana & Robertson would be a huge haul IMO. I think expecting much more than that is completely unrealistic.

 

I think the question isn't if Robertson is worth one of those guys on his own. The question is would Robertson being in a deal push the front line guy from a guy like Rutherford to a guy like Torres, or would it maybe force it to be two headliners plus two other guys, instead of one headliner and three other guys.

[Bob Sacamano]

Random, but who was the prospect the Yankees took for the Robertson loss in the 15 draft?

Edited December 27, 2016 by soxfan2014

[southsider2k5]

If you get money back does that mean that what you get back does not count against the luxury limit?

 

The problem the Yankees have with Robertson is if they go over the threshold, his salary in essence is quite a bit more than they are paying him.

 

This is accurate.

[southsider2k5]

My guess is that the Sox want Torres to headline, but the Yankees are refusing and offering Frazier instead. The Yankees, realizing Hahn has enough other suitors to not budge from Torres, are looking for ways to add more value if they're going to give up Torres.

 

I'd be shocked if it would be both Torres and Frazier. Like mentioned above, best case IMO is Torres/Rutherford + a couple interesting arms like Domingo Acevedo and/or Jonathan Holder, or maybe even Torres/Kaprielian + a couple smaller guys.

 

And we should be happy with that. Yes, you could theoretically max out by separating the pieces, but you can't expect literally EVERY deal to come at max efficiency, and if all it takes to grease the deal is an expensive reliever, then just do it and move on. Sox still have Nate Jones to use to exploit the reliever market.

Totally agree here.

[steveno89]

I think the question isn't if Robertson is worth one of those guys on his own. The question is would Robertson being in a deal push the front line guy from a guy like Rutherford to a guy like Torres, or would it maybe force it to be two headliners plus two other guys, instead of one headliner and three other guys.

 

Rutherford is not a good enough prospect to headline a Quintana deal on his own. He would be a second piece and Frazier and/or Torres (preferably Torres) would be the main headliner

[caulfield12]

What is the insurance policy if Q goes to the WBC or into the regular season with the Sox and gets hurt or suffers a labrum/Johan Santana injury?

 

He should be valued at $100-125 million to the franchise, at least. If not $150 million. Wonder the cost for that amount of risk. 35-40% on the dollar?

[Bob Sacamano]

What is the insurance policy if Q goes to the WBC or into the regular season with the Sox and gets hurt or suffers a labrum/Johan Santana injury?

 

I keep forgetting he is pitching in the WBC.

[Con te Giolito]

I keep forgetting he is pitching in the WBC.

It scares the s*** out of me even if I know it shouldn't

[steveno89]

if we give the best starter, closer available + money, isnt that worth torres+frazier +more?

 

Yes,

 

I am not trading Quintana and Robertson to the Yankees for a package short of Torres + Frazier ++

 

and those ++ had better be quality pieces

 

This all reeks of the White Sox swirling the rumor pot to get Pirates/Yankees/Astros/Rockies/etc to up their offer

[Bob Sacamano]

It scares the s*** out of me even if I know it shouldn't

 

This is how I feel.

 

Would hate for him to still be here only for him to suffer a terrible injury during the WBC or in the first months of the season.

Edited December 27, 2016 by soxfan2014

[Eminor3rd]

Rutherford is not a good enough prospect to headline a Quintana deal on his own. He would be a second piece and Frazier and/or Torres (preferably Torres) would be the main headliner

 

Honestly, I think he IS if it is a deal with a ton of depth instead of one that is top-heavy like we usually expect. The strength of the Yankees system is that it is chock full of guys like that.

 

Rutherford/Kaprielian/Mateo/Sheffield, for example, would be a pretty amazing haul.

[southsider2k5]

Honestly, I think he IS if it is a deal with a ton of depth instead of one that is top-heavy like we usually expect. The strength of the Yankees system is that it is chock full of guys like that.

 

Rutherford/Kaprielian/Mateo/Sheffield, for example, would be a pretty amazing haul.

 

Agreed. The Yankees have so much positional talent. They also have about 4 guys who could headline a deal by themselves. Granted I want to see the Sox clean off of the top of the Yankees, list, but at the same time, there are a lot of ways a deal could get done as they have both depth and quality through their system.

 

The telling thing is that even with all of the names listed, there are still plenty of other quality guys who haven't been discussed. Billy McKinney hasn't been mentioned, and neither have guys like Wilkerman Garcia, Donny Sands, or Leo Molina that could be on the back end of a deal.

[steveno89]

Honestly, I think he IS if it is a deal with a ton of depth instead of one that is top-heavy like we usually expect. The strength of the Yankees system is that it is chock full of guys like that.

 

Rutherford/Kaprielian/Mateo/Sheffield, for example, would be a pretty amazing haul.

 

A solid haul, but it is missing the marquee headliner to get a deal done

 

If the Yankees do not make Torres and/or Frazier available I don't see a deal happening. Quintana + Robertson should net both of them

 

Mateo's stock has slipped after a mediocre 2016, I no longer view him as a top 50 mlb prospect. Judge's stock is down a bit too after striking out at an alarming rate in 2016.

 

Robertson will have good value at the deadline, I don't love the idea of including him in a potential deal unless it lands us both Torres and Frazier as headliners

[bmags]

Yes,

 

I am not trading Quintana and Robertson to the Yankees for a package short of Torres + Frazier ++

 

and those ++ had better be quality pieces

 

This all reeks of the White Sox swirling the rumor pot to get Pirates/Yankees/Astros/Rockies/etc to up their offer

 

Depends. I think so highly of Torres and Frazier that any deal that gets us both of those is better to me than Quintana and Robertson separately getting us a "better" deal elsewhere.

 

Even though I think torres + frazier ain't happening, would I take a package of Robertson/Quintana/Cash for Torres/Rutherford++ or a deal with astros for Musgrove/Martes/Tucker.

 

I'd take Torres/Rutherford, I just like them a lot more and the backend pieces yankees have to offer. I just don't think a rudimentary formula can always be applied for prospect value.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Getting Torres and Frazier is crazy talk. Getting one of them is probably a requirement for 4 years of Q though. Torres/Rutherford ++ would be fantastic deal.

[SoxAce]

Rutherford is not a good enough prospect to headline a Quintana deal on his own. He would be a second piece and Frazier and/or Torres (preferably Torres) would be the main headliner

 

Rutherford is a better prospect than Frazier IMO. Might not say it yet in the BA rankings and because he got injured, but that kid is legit.

[bmags]

I do not know this but can look it up.

 

Luxury tax penalty is AAV

[steveno89]

Getting Torres and Frazier is crazy talk. Getting one of them is probably a requirement for 4 years of Q though. Torres/Rutherford ++ would be fantastic deal.

 

Not necessarily

 

If Robertson is included in the deal, along with some cash, I could see that being enough to justify Torres + Frazier headlining a deal to the White Sox

 

Remember, the cost to acquire a #1 or #2 starting pitcher in free agency is absurd, even for the Yankees. Quintana's deal is a steal.

 

With multiple suitors, Hahn is driving the pricetag up as high as possible.

[username]

Depends. I think so highly of Torres and Frazier that any deal that gets us both of those is better to me than Quintana and Robertson separately getting us a "better" deal elsewhere.

 

Even though I think torres + frazier ain't happening, would I take a package of Robertson/Quintana/Cash for Torres/Rutherford++ or a deal with astros for Musgrove/Martes/Tucker.

 

I'd take Torres/Rutherford, I just like them a lot more and the backend pieces yankees have to offer. I just don't think a rudimentary formula can always be applied for prospect value.

 

Totally agreed. Plus the Yankees need Frazier in the near future to compete. Torres is a better prospect, but still pretty far away - and the same goes for Rutherford. Which is why I think they're probably more likely pieces.

[TheFutureIsNear]

A solid haul, but it is missing the marquee headliner to get a deal done

 

If the Yankees do not make Torres and/or Frazier available I don't see a deal happening. Quintana + Robertson should net both of them

 

Mateo's stock has slipped after a mediocre 2016, I no longer view him as a top 50 mlb prospect. Judge's stock is down a bit too after striking out at an alarming rate in 2016.

 

Robertson will have good value at the deadline, I don't love the idea of including him in a potential deal unless it lands us both Torres and Frazier as headliners

 

Why are you acting like Robertson has a lot of value? Robertson adds a couple of B level prospects to the end of the deal. His name shouldn't even be mentioned with Frazier and Torres. Getting both is indeed crazy talk

Edited December 27, 2016 by TheFutureIsNear

[Whisox05]

Here goes another day of getting teased early and leaving us hanging until tomorrow lol

[Eminor3rd]

Agreed. The Yankees have so much positional talent. They also have about 4 guys who could headline a deal by themselves. Granted I want to see the Sox clean off of the top of the Yankees, list, but at the same time, there are a lot of ways a deal could get done as they have both depth and quality through their system.

 

The telling thing is that even with all of the names listed, there are still plenty of other quality guys who haven't been discussed. Billy McKinney hasn't been mentioned, and neither have guys like Wilkerman Garcia, Donny Sands, or Leo Molina that could be on the back end of a deal.

 

Totally forgot about Garcia. Acevedo and Holder are two guys that are clearly third tier but would slot into our top ten before this December.

 

The more I think about it, the harder it is for me to believe that Torres will get moved. Not that Quintana isn't worth Torres, but just that it would seem so counter-productive to what Cashman has been building. And while top end talent is always the goal as you said, getting 5 or 6 of those second/third tier Yankees prospects would do our system a TON of good.

Edited December 27, 2016 by Eminor3rd