Lucas Giolito

[Soxfest]

Any team would love too have Giolito. Spring training stats mean nothing to me. I am looking forward to his growth in a Sox uniform. Lopez is going to be a solid #2 or #3 starter in the not so distant future.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Soxfest

[maxjusttyped]

Any team would love too have Giolito. Spring training stats mean nothing to me. I am looking forward to his growth in a Sox uniform. Lopez is going to be a solid #2 or #3 starter in the not so distant future.

Spring Training stats are meaningless, but not all aspects of Spring Training are. It is absolutely noteworthy and concerning that his velocity is down 4 MPH from where it was 2 years ago.

 

https://twitter.com/jeffwzimmerman/status/842095102801674241

Edited March 25, 2017 by maxjusttyped

[Soha]

The Sox got Giolito in part because word was all around baseball that the Nats were down on Giolito. That his stock is down from it's peak was part of the trade - not a sudden tough break for the White Sox. To me Lopez is the biggest piece of the deal, but I still feel really good about Giolito and his future. It might take a few years. Maybe he won't be a #1. Heck maybe he'll end up in the pen. That doesn't mean he won't be darn good someday.

[Balta1701]

The Sox got Giolito in part because word was all around baseball that the Nats were down on Giolito. That his stock is down from it's peak was part of the trade - not a sudden tough break for the White Sox. To me Lopez is the biggest piece of the deal, but I still feel really good about Giolito and his future. It might take a few years. Maybe he won't be a #1. Heck maybe he'll end up in the pen. That doesn't mean he won't be darn good someday.

I still feel like we had this thread in 2007 about Gavin Floyd.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

The Sox got Giolito in part because word was all around baseball that the Nats were down on Giolito. That his stock is down from it's peak was part of the trade - not a sudden tough break for the White Sox. To me Lopez is the biggest piece of the deal, but I still feel really good about Giolito and his future. It might take a few years. Maybe he won't be a #1. Heck maybe he'll end up in the pen. That doesn't mean he won't be darn good someday.

 

Everyone also seems to forget about Dunning. The Sox were very high on him and were looking at him for the second round before the Nets took him. If Lopez turns into a #2-3, Dunning a #5, and Giolito a high-leverage reliever, I don't see how people can't call that a win.

[Chicago White Sox]

Spring Training stats are meaningless, but not all aspects of Spring Training are. It is absolutely noteworthy and concerning that his velocity is down 4 MPH from where it was 2 years ago.

 

https://twitter.com/jeffwzimmerman/status/842095102801674241

I'm no expert, but I'm not sure comparing someone's velocity in spring training to their velocity during the middle of the regular season is very fair.

[Dick Allen]

I'm no expert, but I'm not sure comparing someone's velocity in spring training to their velocity during the middle of the regular season is very fair.

Especially the first couple of weeks of spring training. He has mechanical issues to sort our. he has some red flags, but I don't think throwing only 93 the first few weeks of spring training is one of them.

[Chicago White Sox]

The Sox got Giolito in part because word was all around baseball that the Nats were down on Giolito. That his stock is down from it's peak was part of the trade - not a sudden tough break for the White Sox. To me Lopez is the biggest piece of the deal, but I still feel really good about Giolito and his future. It might take a few years. Maybe he won't be a #1. Heck maybe he'll end up in the pen. That doesn't mean he won't be darn good someday.

 

 

Everyone also seems to forget about Dunning. The Sox were very high on him and were looking at him for the second round before the Nets took him. If Lopez turns into a #2-3, Dunning a #5, and Giolito a high-leverage reliever, I don't see how people can't call that a win.

These are great posts. Giolito doesn't have to be an ace for this deal to be a win for us. The key IMO is to get at least one #2/#3 caliber starter out of this plus a back of the rotation type or a high leverage reliever. Anything more than that is just a bonus IMO.

[iamshack]

And this is the exact downside to "blow it up". If it fails, we are talking years more of problems.

These posts are frustrating coming from you, because I think you know better.

[GreatScott82]

These posts are frustrating coming from you, because I think you know better.

I'm shocked that some fans wanted the team to NOT rebuild. This was long over due. My only issue was letting Hahn and KW be in charge of it since they were the ones who essentially put the organization in this situation... It is what it is, Hahn finally got his wish-- let's see if he can work his magic with this potential Quintana deal.

[WBWSF]

Both Williams and Hahn have to shoulder the blame for the present situation the team is in. Unfortunately they are still running things. The only way that is going to change is if the team is sold. I still think JR is going to put the team up for sale during the 2018 season and we'll have a new owner going into the 2019 season.

[TaylorStSox]

And this is the exact downside to "blow it up". If it fails, we are talking years more of problems.

We're going to have "years of problems" regardless.

[RockRaines]

Beware putting too much emphasis on anonymous scout quotes.

[Lip Man 1]

I still think JR is going to put the team up for sale during the 2018 season and we'll have a new owner going into the 2019 season.

 

I think this statement is entirely wrong. But feel free to keep repeating it every single time.

 

Two words for you: TAX HIT if he sells before he passes on.

 

That is all.

 

Mark

 

[oldsox]

I think this statement is entirely wrong. But feel free to keep repeating it every single time.

 

Two words for you: TAX HIT if he sells before he passes on.

 

That is all.

 

Mark

Long Term Capital Gain, right?

 

What is the rate now? What will it be when he sells?

[Dick Allen]

I think this statement is entirely wrong. But feel free to keep repeating it every single time.

 

Two words for you: TAX HIT if he sells before he passes on.

 

That is all.

 

Mark

I wasn't aware taxes a White Sox sale would incur while JR is alive go away once he is dead.

 

It would be interesting to see the percentage of ownership breakdown within his group.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Dick Allen

[WBWSF]

I think this statement is entirely wrong. But feel free to keep repeating it every single time.

 

Two words for you: TAX HIT if he sells before he passes on.

 

That is all.

 

I will keep repeating it and I will go into more detail now. 2018 will have one of the worse teams in White Sox history. It will also be one of the most profitable in MLB. I will do the simple math for anybody who is interested. Forbes magazine says the White Sox franchise has a gross of $250 million dollars. The 2018 White Sox payroll will be around $50 million dollars. Taking everything into account the team is going to make some serious money in 2018 even with a horrendous team. JR will put the team up for sale in 2018 and the new owner will take over the team in 2019. JR will make one last profitable year in 2018 and drive off into the sunset. Hopefully Hahn and Ken Williams will be gone under the new ownership. Keep in mind also that the Miami Marlins are suppose to be sold this year for a billion and a half dollars. I would think that the White Sox will be sold for something around those numbers also. I also know for a fact that most of the White Sox investors (who are elderly) want the team to be sold ASAP.

Edited March 26, 2017 by WBWSF

[tray]

Not sure if this thread is about Lucas Giolito, the trade with the Nats, the Sox ownership structure, Jerry's longevity, or income tax law.

Giolito has a chance to be a starter. Even if he is a bust, Adam Eaton had to go just like Sale had to go. This is more of a purge than a rebuild although, at some point, it just becomes a question of semantics.

 

 

 

 

[tray]

. I also know for a fact that most of the White Sox investors (who are elderly) want the team to be sold ASAP.

 

Source? Link?

[greg775]

I'm shocked that some fans wanted the team to NOT rebuild. This was long over due. My only issue was letting Hahn and KW be in charge of it since they were the ones who essentially put the organization in this situation... It is what it is, Hahn finally got his wish-- let's see if he can work his magic with this potential Quintana deal.

The rebuild is stupid. I know I'm retreading old greg statements here, but the Sox had chances to dump some of these guys last season and didn't do it. Guys like Robertson, Frazier and Melky. Now that's a rebuild. The Sox made a couple big trades and got the guy from the Cardinals in a little transaction. We've got all these veterans and we're not even trying to win this year. I've said a million times before if we had a smart front office all they needed to do was add a few pieces and see if we could win.

The Sox are not the kind of franchise that tears it all down and rebuilds from scratch. Unfortunately we're in for a long long sub .500 drought. You rebuild lovers also trust our front office to make good deals.

 

I LOVE southsider's posts on this alleged rebuild. Let him explain.

[username]

Long Term Capital Gain, right?

 

What is the rate now? What will it be when he sells?

 

Yeah if he dies and passes it along, the "basis" of the asset should step-up: i.e. his heirs wouldn't have to pay as much in long-term capital gains taxes when they sell it, since they received the asset at its current value. Its an interesting component of the tax system.

[Lip Man 1]

WBWSF:

 

Sigh....OK...for the 8,456th time.

 

First off what any others investors want or wish MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING...repeat NOTHING. JR has day to day control of the operations of the White Sox. IT IS IN HIS CONTRACT. He has the absolute final say on all matters including a possible sale. EVERY other minority owner can say, "we want to sell" but if JR says "no." That's it...over and done. Also unless JR is guilty of some type of illegal activity or is judged to no longer be in control of his mental capacity (i.e. unfit to run the operation) HE CAN NOT BE REMOVED FROM THAT POSITION. Again that is specifically stipulated in his contract. With the money the Sox are making no one can even hope to make that claim.

 

Second, based on what I've been told and from what I've read if JR were to sell before he passed away the tax could be as much as 200 MILLION DOLLARS on him and his family. 200 MILLION.

 

JR isn't the sharpest baseball guy around but he is a brilliant businessman who STARTED AS A TAX GUY. NO ONE knows the in's and out's of the tax laws better than him.

 

If you think he is going to inflict that kind of penalty on his family you are being delusional.

 

If the team is sold after he passes on the tax hit is much MUCH LOWER.

 

Like it or not, for better or worse he is going to own the franchise until it is time for him to leave this existence or unless the tax laws are changed.

 

But if you want to continue to believe in a fantasy then by all means...go for it.

 

Sorry, I don't mean to offend but this constant repetition of nonsense gets old.

 

And in the interest of full disclosure I have been asked to co-author a book on JR, one of the most successful and controversial sports owners in Chicago franchise history. I researched for six months including a number of direct interviews and put together a 75 page outline / format for the upcoming publication. The other person involved in this is now doing much of the writing. Basically I did most of the research and he is doing the other part of the process. He approached me with the idea. I thought it was worth my time and found it interesting so I did what I could.

 

Much of the info on JR is actually public record if you look hard enough.

 

Mark

Edited March 26, 2017 by Lip Man 1

[BlackSox13]

Quick question. WTF does JR's ownership and the "conspiracy" rebuild have to do with Lucas Giolito's FB velocity drop and CB spin rate?

 

I swear some folks complain for the sake of complaining and if there was nothing to complain about, they would complain about that too.

 

Lighten up Sox fans and be glad baseball is back after a long winter.

[Dick Allen]

Yeah if he dies and passes it along, the "basis" of the asset should step-up: i.e. his heirs wouldn't have to pay as much in long-term capital gains taxes when they sell it, since they received the asset at its current value. Its an interesting component of the tax system.

They want to put a gigantic basis number on that the estate tax man will be looking for a ckeck.only JR really knows how much of the team he owns.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Dick Allen

[Jake]

I also have reservations about Giolito because there's not a lot there that still justifies top 10 prospect status, especially with his reduced velocity and good-not-amazing minor league stats. Curveball is for real, though. But the trade was great. There is just as much, if not more, reason for optimism with Lopez and Dunning is as good as a 3rd piece in a trade ever gets.