witesoxfan Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 Just for reference's sake: Asche - AAA - .297/.359/.491/.850, 20.2% K, 8.2% BB, 644 PAs Davidson - AAA - .232/.314/.410/.723, 29.2% K, 9.6% BB, 1967 PAs And Cody Asche is 9 months older than Matt Davidson. I'm not saying that Cody Asche is going to be anything special, but he is a perfectly reasonable player to be giving at bats during this rebuild period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 How many more years of team control does Asche have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 02:10 PM) How many more years of team control does Asche have? 3 more years. 2020 FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 Really don't see a problem with giving Davidson, Asche and May at bats for the time being. Tilson is injured and Engel isn't hitting yet at Charlotte so there's really nobody to replace May. I guess a case could be made for Leery in CF but still need May to back up the position. For the Delmonico fans out there, look at Asche as a place holder for Delmonico until the time passes where the Sox get the extra year of control over Nicky. Would really like to see Abreu moved to DH and give Delmonico a shot at 1B when Delmonico gets called up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share Posted April 10, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 01:01 PM) For a fanbase that complains when the White Sox try to win, want them to do nothing but lose, they sure do complain a lot about s***ty players. You want the Sox to lose, don't complain Asche is in the line up. He gets them where you want them to be. I think you are missing the point here. I have no problem losing; I have a problem not getting quality development FOR that losing. Asche has dead end written all over him, mainly due to his # of years of ML experience. He has a pretty long track record at this level already. Edited April 10, 2017 by Greg Hibbard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share Posted April 10, 2017 My question truly is - what is the upside. In literally a perfect scenario, what does Asche produce? .270/.320/.380/.700 with no defensive upside and potentially a liability? What the hell is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 03:05 PM) My question truly is - what is the upside. In literally a perfect scenario, what does Asche produce? .270/.320/.380/.700 with no defensive upside and potentially a liability? What the hell is that? In this day and age that is a cromulent 4th OF and a borderline starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 03:01 PM) I think you are missing the point here. I have no problem losing; I have a problem not getting quality development FOR that losing. Asche has dead end written all over him, mainly due to his # of years of ML experience. He has a pretty long track record at this level already. But there is no one else. You don't want them to rush guys. You get this kind of crap. Maybe, somehow, one of these guys works out. Probably not, but that is rebuilding. For a team that made it a point to have most of their coaching staff, if not all, former instructors, there is very little young talent on the major league roster. Covey and Rodon is about it pitching-wise, and I don't think anyone thinks he's a core piece moving forward. Anderson is. May, Sanchez, Davidson, Asche, the Garcias, probably even Narvaez...these are guys they are hoping against hope somehow find something realizing most likely no. Fraizer, Robertson, Q, Jones, Gonzalez, Shields, Holland, Soto maybe even Abreu, but I tend to doubt it, trade bait. Rodon is a keeper, but really not many on the roster. They seem to like Saladino. So of the current roster, I think if you had RH and KW drunk telling you the truth they would say Rodon, Anderson and probably Saladino and Abreu are the guys currently on the roster they think will be on the team when they believe they are a contender. Anyone else is gravy. Everyone else, just filling in and hoping or trying to get them to play well so they can be dealt to the highest bidder. Edited April 10, 2017 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share Posted April 10, 2017 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 03:10 PM) In this day and age that is a cromulent 4th OF and a borderline starter. So our very best case scenario is 4th OF/borderline starter Great Yep, I sure hope we can reach our goal and develop Cody Asche into the next Warren Newsom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share Posted April 10, 2017 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 03:10 PM) But there is no one else. You don't want them to rush guys. You get this kind of crap. Maybe, somehow, one of these guys works out. Probably not, but that is rebuilding. For a team that made it a point to have most of their coaching staff, if not all, former instructors, their is very little young talent on the major league roster. Covey is about it pitching-wise, and I don't think anyone thinks he's a core piece moving forward. Anderson is. May, Sanchez, Davidson, Asche, the Garcias, probably even Narvaez...these are guys they are hoping against hope somehow find something realizing most likely no. Fraizer, Robertson, Q, Jones, Gonzalez, Shields, Holland, Soto maybe even Abreu, but I tend to doubt it, trade bait. Rodon is a keeper, but really not many on the roster. They seem to like Saladino. So of the current roster, I think if you had RH and KW drunk telling you the truth they would say Rodon, Anderson and probably Saladino and Abreu are the guys currently on the roster they think will be on the team when they believe they are a contender. Anyone else is gravy. Everyone else, just filling in and hoping or trying to get them to play well so they can be dealt to the highest bidder. There is no one else? There's not any minor leaguer in our system who deserves even just a cup of coffee at DH to see if he can hit home runs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 03:01 PM) I think you are missing the point here. I have no problem losing; I have a problem not getting quality development FOR that losing. Asche has dead end written all over him, mainly due to his # of years of ML experience. He has a pretty long track record at this level already. He's not blocking any development though. Who do you think should be getting those ABs instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 03:20 PM) There is no one else? There's not any minor leaguer in our system who deserves even just a cup of coffee at DH to see if he can hit home runs? No one any more than Asche. Asche sucks. No one is debating that, I paid money to watch Asche play, I'm not so happy about that, but so would just about every other in house option unless you want to rush someone for no reason at all. Edited April 10, 2017 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 03:05 PM) My question truly is - what is the upside. In literally a perfect scenario, what does Asche produce? .270/.320/.380/.700 with no defensive upside and potentially a liability? What the hell is that? In a perfect scenario, he is a league average or better hitter, which is plenty valuable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 12:42 PM) I've been poring over this guy's major league and minor league career, and what am I missing here? He seems like a good contact hitter with little power, suspect defense at 3rd base. Why are we spending a roster spot on a guy who appears to be Gordon Beckham without defense, especially since we have a 3rd baseman this season? I've been asking that for a month. There no upside. He fulfills none of the requirements for being on this roster. He's not someone who can be peddled; nor is he someone who has a future. I think it's likely an extension of a FO bad habit of loving proven veterans, no matter how bad they are (although they usually favor the ones who were good at some point in their career; not always though - they had a long love affair with DeWayne Wise, e.g.). Edited April 10, 2017 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 03:36 PM) I've been asking that for a month. There no upside. He fulfills none of the requirements for being on this roster. He's not someone who can be peddled; nor is he someone who has a future. I think it's likely an extension of a FO bad habit of loving proven veterans, no matter how bad they are (although they usually favor the ones who were good at some point in their career; not always though - they had a long love affair with DeWayne Wise, e.g.). Who should get his roster spot instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 03:36 PM) I've been asking that for a month. There no upside. He fulfills none of the requirements for being on this roster. He's not someone who can be peddled; nor is he someone who has a future. I think it's likely an extension of a FO bad habit of loving proven veterans, no matter how bad they are (although they usually favor the ones who were good at some point in their career; not always though - they had a long love affair with DeWayne Wise, e.g.). So pick someone who does meet the requirements from the minors. He needs to have completed his MiLB development. The team needs to think he is ready to make the jump to the MLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 03:05 PM) My question truly is - what is the upside. In literally a perfect scenario, what does Asche produce? .270/.320/.380/.700 with no defensive upside and potentially a liability? What the hell is that? I think you are way overestimating what anyone else could step in and do right now. This system is absolutely barren of ML ready hitters. Hell even Jacob May shouldn't be here. This is a system just loaded with garbage at the top levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 There's guys we can pluck from the minors to DH but there's either no reason to start their service time or they need to get some reps playing different positions. Having Delmonico up to play full time DH right now well he need fielding reps and starting his service time in a down year just isn't the smartest thing to do at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 03:36 PM) I've been asking that for a month. There no upside. He fulfills none of the requirements for being on this roster. He's not someone who can be peddled; nor is he someone who has a future. I think it's likely an extension of a FO bad habit of loving proven veterans, no matter how bad they are (although they usually favor the ones who were good at some point in their career; not always though - they had a long love affair with DeWayne Wise, e.g.). People keep making posts like this, as if there is someone who is there someone who has a future or some skill that isn't playing. It is just complaining to complain. Even as someone who is about as pessimistic as you can get about what we have done to this point, even I can realize that you are pushing a boulder up Mt Everest here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 04:46 PM) People keep making posts like this, as if there is someone who is there who has a future or some skill that isn't playing. It is just complaining to complain. Even as someone who is about as pessimistic as you can get about what we have done to this point, even I can realize that you are pushing a boulder up Mt Everest here. Right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share Posted April 10, 2017 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 03:46 PM) People keep making posts like this, as if there is someone who is there someone who has a future or some skill that isn't playing. It is just complaining to complain. Even as someone who is about as pessimistic as you can get about what we have done to this point, even I can realize that you are pushing a boulder up Mt Everest here. What I'm essentially saying is a powerless hitter with no wheels, average on base and poor defense has no chance of developing into anything Even a .150 hitter capable of jacking the ball 17 times out of the park on pure muscle would produce more runs than this guy could and we might see something out of that person that might be more valuable than a dead end guy in a spot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share Posted April 10, 2017 In other words where is Josh Fields when you need him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 03:58 PM) What I'm essentially saying is a powerless hitter with no wheels, average on base and poor defense has no chance of developing into anything Even a .150 hitter capable of jacking the ball 17 times out of the park on pure muscle would produce more runs than this guy could and we might see something out of that person that might be more valuable than a dead end guy in a spot The league composite last year was .243/.320/.400/.720. Cody Asche for his career is .239/.298/.383/.681, and it is not unreasonable to think he can improve. If he doesn't, he'll be playing in the minors for someone within 2 months. It really has been that long since the Sox had a rebuild that people forget that guys like Asche are the exact type of player you take a chance on. There is literally no downside of playing him - if he sucks, he helps the Sox lose, which helps. If he plays well, you either have a piece that you can look towards in the future or trade away, which helps. If he shows no signs of progress during that time frame, you release him. It's really simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 03:58 PM) What I'm essentially saying is a powerless hitter with no wheels, average on base and poor defense has no chance of developing into anything Even a .150 hitter capable of jacking the ball 17 times out of the park on pure muscle would produce more runs than this guy could and we might see something out of that person that might be more valuable than a dead end guy in a spot Who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 (edited) QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 10, 2017 -> 06:50 PM) Given the general goal of the season, he doesn't bother me much. And if he keeps on sucking, I don't think he will be around long enough to bother me not everyone can DH or wants to DH. We are only five games into the season and there are several struggling so I wouldnt be singling anyone out just yet Edited April 11, 2017 by elrockinMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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