Avi doesn't have the trade value yet. If the idea is to trade Avi then give him all of the 2018 season to boost his stock and then dangle him on the trade market over the 2018/19 winter as a much cheaper alternative to signing Harper. If the idea is to keep Avi long term, let's see how he performs next year and go from there.

 

Great thing about Avi is that there's no pressure to trade or extend him. Just wait and see..

 

Exactly. I have no doubt that RH will be listening on Avi this offseason, but he is out in RF next season unless someone comes to the table with a top 50 guy the Sox like and an interesting secondary piece. Turning down an offer like that is too great a risk for me on Avi. But whether or not an offer like that will come to fruition remains to me seen - the market this trade deadline didn't offer that type of upside for a player like Avi. Will this winter be different? Could be.

 

That said, I'm becoming more and more convinced that the Sox want to be decent next year. If Avi is moved, there is no realistic option for everyday at bats in RF if the Sox are interesting in fielding a team with 75 or more wins. I think the days of acquiring legit prospects for our veterans is over. Avi isn't getting moved this offseason and won't be until Eloy is ready next summer.

These figures are all low....I don't see anyway he's signing for less than $20 million per year. Perhaps start with an offer of 6 years / $108 million with the intention of settling somewhere in the neighborhood of 7 years / $154 million.

 

And you don't trade him.....I'd hate to see him enter the HOF wearing any other cap than the White Sox.

 

 

WTF? That's crazy. He's having his first decent season and still has shortcomings. On one hand, he has a .368 wOBA and a wRC+ of 132. Solid season. He does have a crazy high .392 BABIP though. He's not a defender and only has 14 homers while being relegated to an OF corner. He's just always a guy that contending teams will be looking to replace in my opinion.

WTF? That's crazy. He's having his first decent season and still has shortcomings. On one hand, he has a .368 wOBA and a wRC+ of 132. Solid season. He does have a crazy high .392 BABIP though. He's not a defender and only has 14 homers while being relegated to an OF corner. He's just always a guy that contending teams will be looking to replace in my opinion.

sincity is a blatant troll, just ignore him. Wish the mods would do something about him, because there is really no black or white about his intentions.

WTF? That's crazy. He's having his first decent season and still has shortcomings. On one hand, he has a .368 wOBA and a wRC+ of 132. Solid season. He does have a crazy high .392 BABIP though. He's not a defender and only has 14 homers while being relegated to an OF corner. He's just always a guy that contending teams will be looking to replace in my opinion.

 

Some of you need to accept the current value of MLB players today. The Cubs signed Jason Heyward to a 8 year / $184 million dollar contract just 2 years ago (and he supposedly turned down 2 offers of over $200 million). His lifetime stats are a .262 BA / .412 SLG / .756 OPS. Avi has career stats of .273 BA / .410 SLG / .734 OPS. Avi is a younger player than Jason was at the time and is having a far better season than Heyward has ever had in his career. The numbers I quoted would still be a good deal for the organization. We would have been wiser to sign him long term earlier in the season for less money (as I advocated), but if we don't sign him this offseason, it will take even more a commitment to keep him on the southside for the bulk of his HOF career.

Jason Heywards best BA ever was .293 while Avi is currently batting .325. Jason's best SLG in his career is .479 while Avi's current SLG is .495. Jason's highest OPS ever is .849 while Avi currently has an OPS of .868. And Jason's career best in these 3 categories were in 3 different seasons while Avi is doing it all in one year. I'm not sure how anyone can claim that Heyward has ever had a better season than Avi is having in 2017. Really, I don't understand this hatred for the guy among our fanbase. We should be happy that we have one of the best young players in the game wearing our uniform and yet many want to get rid of him. SMH

Heyward is a plus plus defender at a corner and can also play cf if you need to while garcia is really bad with the glove.

 

It is true that avi right now has about a peak heyward season with the bat but it is his first of that caliber and aided by a high babip.

 

 

But even if he was a better hitter than heyward there still would be that massive defensive gap. Team now consider outfield defense a lot and the time when you only cared about the bat of corner outfield is over.

 

Still the deal looks bad now but only because heyward declined from a 110 ops+ hitter to a replacement level hitter.

Edited September 4, 20178 yr by GermanSock

Past performance and WAR numbers for prior years are irrelevant. As Stone pointed out today, Avi lost weight and is getting to a lot of balls he didn't in prior years. His batting average has improved and he has had a lot of clutch hits.

 

Today, Avi had outfield throw that nabbed a guy at second and another one where the tag just missed.

 

At this point, I would not trade Avi for Jason Heyward. I can't stand the Cubs or Heyward anyway.

 

I hope the Sox resign Avi. I like that player would like him to be part of the core moving forward.

An outfield with Avi, Eloy and Luis Robert would be nice.

Past performance and WAR numbers for prior years are irrelevant. As Stone pointed out today, Avi lost weight and is getting to a lot of balls he didn't in prior years. His batting average has improved and he has had a lot of clutch hits.

 

Today, Avi had outfield throw that nabbed a guy at second and another one where the tag just missed.

 

At this point, I would not trade Avi for Jason Heyward. I can't stand the Cubs or Heyward anyway.

 

I hope the Sox resign Avi. I like that player would like him to be part of the core moving forward.

An outfield with Avi, Eloy and Luis Robert would be nice.

I just read the awesome future sox report and Rutherford has been struggling. Avi and Abreu need to be part of our next WS team, folks. You can't win with all new guys. Why can't everybody see that? Why would you want to trade Avi when you've got that potential outfield of Eloy, Robert and Avi with either Rutherford at DH or one of the other Sox outfielders we have in the minors. I like what I've seen out of Liriano. Right now I guess you could (reluctantly) trade Avi this offseason and give Liriano 580 at bats and see what you've got there. If Liriano blows, Rutherford will be ready the following year. I hate to see Avi go, though, as I'd like he and Abreu to be the leaders of our WS teams.

It's scary that Cleveland's future looks bright for a long time to come. At least Detroit and the Royals will be sucking. Twins figure to be pretty good but probably won't have the $$ to fill in the gaps.

GO SOX!

I just read the awesome future sox report and Rutherford has been struggling. Avi and Abreu need to be part of our next WS team, folks. You can't win with all new guys. Why can't everybody see that? Why would you want to trade Avi when you've got that potential outfield of Eloy, Robert and Avi with either Rutherford at DH or one of the other Sox outfielders we have in the minors. I like what I've seen out of Liriano. Right now I guess you could (reluctantly) trade Avi this offseason and give Liriano 580 at bats and see what you've got there. If Liriano blows, Rutherford will be ready the following year. I hate to see Avi go, though, as I'd like he and Abreu to be the leaders of our WS teams.

It's scary that Cleveland's future looks bright for a long time to come. At least Detroit and the Royals will be sucking. Twins figure to be pretty good but probably won't have the $$ to fill in the gaps.

GO SOX!

 

lol

 

 

lol

Have you read his life story? This guy was a can't miss prospect with the Padres I think it was. He hurt his arm; then missed a year after getting hit in the face. I'm telling you, the Sox have a lot of "can't miss" type prospects on the team. If we had to trade Avi for some more "can't miss" guys I wouldn't mind seeing Liriano get 580 at bats next season and see what he is. Don't some of you guys ever judge with the eye test? Liriano is a certifiable hulk of a specimin. U know, Rutherford could be a bust just as much as anybody.

GO SOX!

Some of you need to accept the current value of MLB players today. The Cubs signed Jason Heyward to a 8 year / $184 million dollar contract just 2 years ago (and he supposedly turned down 2 offers of over $200 million). His lifetime stats are a .262 BA / .412 SLG / .756 OPS. Avi has career stats of .273 BA / .410 SLG / .734 OPS. Avi is a younger player than Jason was at the time and is having a far better season than Heyward has ever had in his career. The numbers I quoted would still be a good deal for the organization. We would have been wiser to sign him long term earlier in the season for less money (as I advocated), but if we don't sign him this offseason, it will take even more a commitment to keep him on the southside for the bulk of his HOF career.

 

And that contract is UNIVERSALLY considered a total disaster, despite the fact that Heyward is an above-average to elite defender by both scouting and advanced stats.

And that contract is UNIVERSALLY considered a total disaster, despite the fact that Heyward is an above-average to elite defender by both scouting and advanced stats.

Almost all of the mega contracts turn out to be disasters. I mean Detroit got rid of Verlander's contract but still had to pay some of it to the Astros. It's why I laugh whenever they talk about guys hitting free agency how much money they are going to get. The media here hasn't estimated what Hosmer is going to get but with 22 homers, 77 RBI and a .317 average, he'll get a ton of money. Astronomical amount. But after two years in his 7 year deal the team will desperately want to get rid of him. That's how it works.

 

My stance on here is well known. I never wanted a rebuild. I wanted to spend, spend spend and stay competitive. Why? Jerry doesn't care about me paying 30 bucks for parking or whatever it is. Jerry doesn't care about me paying 9 bucks for a hot dog. Jerry doesn't give a s*** about my money; I don't care about his pocketbook. Just.Spend.Baby!

Almost all of the mega contracts turn out to be disasters. I mean Detroit got rid of Verlander's contract but still had to pay some of it to the Astros. It's why I laugh whenever they talk about guys hitting free agency how much money they are going to get. The media here hasn't estimated what Hosmer is going to get but with 22 homers, 77 RBI and a .317 average, he'll get a ton of money. Astronomical amount. But after two years in his 7 year deal the team will desperately want to get rid of him. That's how it works.

 

My stance on here is well known. I never wanted a rebuild. I wanted to spend, spend spend and stay competitive. Why? Jerry doesn't care about me paying 30 bucks for parking or whatever it is. Jerry doesn't care about me paying 9 bucks for a hot dog. Jerry doesn't give a s*** about my money; I don't care about his pocketbook. Just.Spend.Baby!

 

Greg. The first half of your post say that free agency is a fool's errand, and the second half says you want the Sox to be nuts in free agency. Can you please explain this?

Greg. The first half of your post say that free agency is a fool's errand, and the second half says you want the Sox to be nuts in free agency. Can you please explain this?

Yes. I wanted them to buy free agents the way they did in the past. They've never given the 7 year mega mega deal but they have acquired some free agents. For instance, Dye signed a two year deal. I forget what Rios signed, but I didn't like him. Dye worked out; guys like him. I mean I still don't care about Jerry's money, but even I don't like the 7 year deals. David Robertson signed a 4 year deal with the Sox. There are nuff of those kind of signings that I wanted to keep us competitive rather than a total rebuild.

Dunn signed a four-year deal; that would have been good but he had that one historially bad season before he got his act together.

 

Now if we could sign Hosmer for 4 years, he's young enough. But I don't want 7-8 years. But do you see what I am saying? I see no need for Jerry baby to have a 50 million dollar payroll next year, even if he did sign Robert.

 

Yes. I wanted them to buy free agents the way they did in the past. They've never given the 7 year mega mega deal but they have acquired some free agents. For instance, Dye signed a two year deal. I forget what Rios signed, but I didn't like him. Dye worked out; guys like him. I mean I still don't care about Jerry's money, but even I don't like the 7 year deals. David Robertson signed a 4 year deal with the Sox. There are nuff of those kind of signings that I wanted to keep us competitive rather than a total rebuild.

Dunn signed a four-year deal; that would have been good but he had that one historially bad season before he got his act together.

 

Now if we could sign Hosmer for 4 years, he's young enough. But I don't want 7-8 years. But do you see what I am saying? I see no need for Jerry baby to have a 50 million dollar payroll next year, even if he did sign Robert.

 

Yep I see what you're saying: "I don't understand how any of this stuff works"

Yep I see what you're saying: "I don't understand how any of this stuff works"

I do understand how it works. I understand tanking, etc. This is a new phenomenon. You know it worked for the Cubs and 'may' work out for the Sixers in the NBA. But ... there are plenty of ways it can fail. You are basically getting rid of any proven productive player for prospects. I agree "on paper" we got some hella prospects. Eloy, Robert and Moncada and Rutherford and some of the pitchers excite me. But ... again this is a new phenomenon. Remember the White Sox stunk for several years but our manager was uh, Robin Ventura. THAT MATTERS, folks. We had Chris Sale and some other good players.

Edited September 5, 20178 yr by greg775

Yes. I wanted them to buy free agents the way they did in the past. They've never given the 7 year mega mega deal but they have acquired some free agents. For instance, Dye signed a two year deal. I forget what Rios signed, but I didn't like him. Dye worked out; guys like him. I mean I still don't care about Jerry's money, but even I don't like the 7 year deals. David Robertson signed a 4 year deal with the Sox. There are nuff of those kind of signings that I wanted to keep us competitive rather than a total rebuild.

Dunn signed a four-year deal; that would have been good but he had that one historially bad season before he got his act together.

 

Now if we could sign Hosmer for 4 years, he's young enough. But I don't want 7-8 years. But do you see what I am saying? I see no need for Jerry baby to have a 50 million dollar payroll next year, even if he did sign Robert.

Milwaukee had the lowest MLB team payroll on this past Opening Day with $63 million dollars. The 2018 White sox team payroll will be the lowest payroll in MLB.It will be much less than $63 million dollars. After the trade of Avi Garcia and probably Abreu the payroll will be less than $40 million. Always remember, low payroll=big profits=more moola for JR.

 

I definitely offer him up this off-season with a high price tag. If no one bites, I'm not giving him an extension either. I don't start negotiating until around July/August after you've tried trading him at a high price. Just my opinion.

Milwaukee had the lowest MLB team payroll on this past Opening Day with $63 million dollars. The 2018 White sox team payroll will be the lowest payroll in MLB.It will be much less than $63 million dollars. After the trade of Avi Garcia and probably Abreu the payroll will be less than $40 million. Always remember, low payroll=big profits=more moola for JR.

 

nobody cares. As long as the kids in the pipeline are the real deal, it doesnt matter what the payroll is next year, so stop whining about it

nobody cares. As long as the kids in the pipeline are the real deal, it doesnt matter what the payroll is next year, so stop whining about it

Agree. And please stop with the "more money in JR's pocket" bull. The Sox are rebuilding not to put money in the owner's pocket but to get ready to put the team in a position to compete and win in the future. They will spend money when the time is right.

Milwaukee had the lowest MLB team payroll on this past Opening Day with $63 million dollars. The 2018 White sox team payroll will be the lowest payroll in MLB.It will be much less than $63 million dollars. After the trade of Avi Garcia and probably Abreu the payroll will be less than $40 million. Always remember, low payroll=big profits=more moola for JR.

 

Do you ever get tired of repeating yourself in literally every single conspiracy-themed post?

 

You know what? If the Sox payroll next year, for the team, is 15 million dollars, WHO THE HELL CARES?

 

They are going to suck next year, get used to it now. It's part of the plan.

 

And you know what? That's completely fine, they aren't ready to win.

 

As for me this is the last time I'm going to respond or read any of your tripe.

nobody cares. As long as the kids in the pipeline are the real deal, it doesnt matter what the payroll is next year, so stop whining about it

This can't be repeated enough.

Edited September 5, 20178 yr by OmarComing25

nobody cares. As long as the kids in the pipeline are the real deal, it doesnt matter what the payroll is next year, so stop whining about it

 

These are the same people who complain about contracts guys like Dunn, Shields, etc. get.

 

All Hahn has to do is find young, elite talent willing to sign short term deals at bargain prices. Cheapass JR!!!

Edited September 5, 20178 yr by Jenksy Cat

Milwaukee had the lowest MLB team payroll on this past Opening Day with $63 million dollars. The 2018 White sox team payroll will be the lowest payroll in MLB.It will be much less than $63 million dollars. After the trade of Avi Garcia and probably Abreu the payroll will be less than $40 million. Always remember, low payroll=big profits=more moola for JR.

 

 

Based on attached, JR and Sox are also losing money with attendance drop. So lower payroll is not pure profit for Sox.

 

http://247wallst.com/special-report/2017/0...tm_campaign=AOL

Edited September 5, 20178 yr by SCCWS