December 31, 20187 yr 5 minutes ago, LittleHurt05 said: The Indians rebuilds aren't comparable. They had to rebuild because ownership was too cheap to pay good players on successful teams. The White Sox are rebuilding because the front office couldn't put together a winning team. The fact is, rebuilds erode the fan base. It's no guarantee they come back. I know there are people on this board who made excuses for fans not showing up in 2012 when the Sox were winning. It was because they were so smart, they knew the team would fade in September. Really, you don't go to watch a team that has been in first place nearly every day of the season in July, because you just know that they will fade in September? It was preposterous. The fan base has eroded. It's going to take something more than a 84 win season to win them back. And that doesn't appear like it will happen in 2019.
December 31, 20187 yr 4 hours ago, WBWSF said: The team has no starting pitching. I wish Hahn would sign Dallas Keuchel. For five years, based on his performance level before 2018 (essentially throwing out last year)?
December 31, 20187 yr I would rather take my chances with Keuchel than Giolito, Covey or Fulmer. Edited December 31, 20187 yr by WBWSF
December 31, 20187 yr 10 hours ago, Dick Allen said: Look at what the rebuilds did to the Indians fan base, and they have actually had some on field success. White Sox attendance has decreased from the previous season every year beginning in 2007 except for one, when they slashed ticket prices and there was a modest increase. If they don't start winning soon, the people who found some other way to spend their time while they sucked, will be less inclined to come back. I do think their public acknowledgement of their pursuits will have a more negative impact than when they usually strike out with little comment. I think there were a very high percentage of White Sox fans who thought at least one of these guys was going to be a White Sox. If that doesn't happen, a lot is going to have to go right in 2019 for the trend not to continue. These two guys are holding up a lot of teams and players from making deals. There are 200 FA's out there.
December 31, 20187 yr 9 hours ago, Dick Allen said: I would imagine so. The problem is, if they don't improve much, and take a swing at next year's free agents, they will have the same problem as this year. Bad team, not much interest, more desirable destinations. Hopefully, Moncada and Eloy, and TA can all take a leap forward, and Gio, Rodon, and Lopez do the same, and Cease continues improving, and Dunning puts his elbow issues behind him, so at least they will have a little more to hang their hat on. I think this year has more to do with players who have publicly expressed interest in a specific team. I don't think that will be the case next year. Although I think arenado. has a chance to resign before FA.
January 1, 20197 yr 9 minutes ago, pcq said: These two guys are holding up a lot of teams and players from making deals. There are 200 FA's out there. It’s insane And if something doesn’t budge in the next year or so, I think it will eventually lead to a strike.
January 1, 20197 yr 28 minutes ago, WBWSF said: I would rather take my chances with Keuchel than Giolito, Covey or Fulmer. Fulmer is probably finished in this org, but I'd much rather spend $1 million on Covey + Giolito than go to a 5 year nearly $100 m deal for Keuchel.
January 1, 20197 yr If Hahn doesn't do something about this starting pitching staff the team is looking at another 100 loss season.
January 1, 20197 yr Just now, WBWSF said: If Hahn doesn't do something about this starting pitching staff the team is looking at another 100 loss season. The difference between a 100 loss season and anything worth talking about is not Dallas Keuchel. It's development out of Giolito, Lopez, Rodon, and others.
January 1, 20197 yr 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: The difference between a 100 loss season and anything worth talking about is not Dallas Keuchel. It's development out of Giolito, Lopez, Rodon, and others. I agree with you, but how about development from those three and sign Kikuchi, if not too expensive. That would be a nice step forward.
January 1, 20197 yr 2 hours ago, Dick Allen said: It’s insane And if something doesn’t budge in the next year or so, I think it will eventually lead to a strike. I think that's a forgone conclusion now. The players need to start demanding some pretty radical changes.
January 1, 20197 yr Author 11 hours ago, aeichhor said: Wouldn't mind to see if the Sox could try to get Raimel Tapia and Ryan McMahon from the Rockies. Both were high end specs and are blocked/ fallen out of favor with the club. I was thinking those two and Jeff Hoffman. I'd love the Sox to somehow get Tapia/Hoffman/McMahon from Colorado or Fisher/Martes from Houston, however it would probably take Abreu to get it done. Honestly, I just hope they get Tapia or Fisher so I don't have to see Engel anymore. Edited January 1, 20197 yr by Jack Parkman
January 1, 20197 yr 11 hours ago, aeichhor said: Wouldn't mind to see if the Sox could try to get Raimel Tapia and Ryan McMahon from the Rockies. Both were high end specs and are blocked/ fallen out of favor with the club. Tapia would make us better. Rockies keep talking about moving Blackmon to a corner, but I think they are leaning toward Dahl in CF, not Tapia.
January 1, 20197 yr 20 hours ago, Dick Allen said: The fact is, rebuilds erode the fan base. It's no guarantee they come back. I know there are people on this board who made excuses for fans not showing up in 2012 when the Sox were winning. It was because they were so smart, they knew the team would fade in September. Really, you don't go to watch a team that has been in first place nearly every day of the season in July, because you just know that they will fade in September? It was preposterous. The fan base has eroded. It's going to take something more than a 84 win season to win them back. And that doesn't appear like it will happen in 2019. Over the last 3-4 decades at least, the Sox have had a smaller core fanbase than the Cubs - and are dependent on bandwagon fans when they play well. It just is what it is. That doesn't make us diehards any lesser fans than Cuib fan diehards. There's just less of us. But for eroding fanbase? Nah. The Sox last year still outdrew the 1998 and 1999 seasons. for your 2012 example, you're ignoring that with Sox fans at least, fans show up a year after success. 2006, 2007 and 2008 all outdrew attendance in 2005. In your 2012 example, they never gave themselves a chance for spillover attendance, because of the late season collapse.
January 1, 20197 yr You want to talk about eroding fanbases, take a look at Cleveland over the past two decades. That’s an ugly picture. Averaged less than 20k in their World Series season, barely over 25k the following and back down to under 24k last year despite their third consecutive division title.
January 1, 20197 yr 37 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: You want to talk about eroding fanbases, take a look at Cleveland over the past two decades. That’s an ugly picture. Averaged less than 20k in their World Series season, barely over 25k the following and back down to under 24k last year despite their third consecutive division title. Crazy. Didn't they sellout ten straight years after opening Jacobs?
January 1, 20197 yr 3 minutes ago, black jack said: Crazy. Didn't they sellout ten straight years after opening Jacobs? Almost 6 years straight. But yea they had a hell of a run until the early 2000s when the bottom fell out. Since 2003, they’ve only broken 2MM total attendance 4 times (and in most cases just barely). Worse than the Sox even, who have 7 such occurrences over the same span. Quite the contrast from their prior 10 seasons after The Jake opened.
January 1, 20197 yr 2 hours ago, Sarava said: Over the last 3-4 decades at least, the Sox have had a smaller core fanbase than the Cubs - and are dependent on bandwagon fans when they play well. It just is what it is. That doesn't make us diehards any lesser fans than Cuib fan diehards. There's just less of us. But for eroding fanbase? Nah. The Sox last year still outdrew the 1998 and 1999 seasons. for your 2012 example, you're ignoring that with Sox fans at least, fans show up a year after success. 2006, 2007 and 2008 all outdrew attendance in 2005. In your 2012 example, they never gave themselves a chance for spillover attendance, because of the late season collapse. I agree. Sox fans always return when they win. The key will be is how low it goes when they don't win.
January 1, 20197 yr The Indians went through two complete teardowns, the second one right in the midst of their 2007 playoff window...between that and the strike, which was really rough on Rust Belt attendance, and the return of LeBron James siphoning off interest/sponsorships/season ticket money, you have a perfect storm. The fans really hate the Dolans, and don’t trust them. Not too far off the concept of the original Major League, although they ran out some pretty big payrolls (for a small market) the last couple of years.
January 1, 20197 yr If the Sox miss out on both Harper and Machado, then I hope they decide to buy out a contract, like discussed HERE. And then go hard after 1 or 2 of Arenado, Rendon, Sale, Cole, Ozuna, Goldschmidt, Eaton.
January 2, 20197 yr 2 hours ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said: If the Sox miss out on both Harper and Machado, then I hope they decide to buy out a contract, like discussed HERE. And then go hard after 1 or 2 of Arenado, Rendon, Sale, Cole, Ozuna, Goldschmidt, Eaton. I still struggle to find any example of a team successfully doing this.
January 2, 20197 yr 16 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I still struggle to find any example of a team successfully doing this. Diamondbacks trade SP Bronson Arroyo and SP Touki Toussaint to the Braves for INF Phillip Gosselin. "The Braves have acquired right-handed pitchers Bronson Arroyo and Touki Toussaint from the Diamondbacks in exchange for infielder Philip Gosselin, reports Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (via Twitter). Both teams have confirmed the move via press release. The move appears to be monetarily motivated for the Diamondbacks. Arroyo is owed the balance of $9.5MM this season plus a $4.5MM buyout (or $13MM option), tweets Rosenthal. The total guarantee is about $10.1MM. He could return from Tommy John surgery as soon as August. "
January 2, 20197 yr 21 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I still struggle to find any example of a team successfully doing this. It's happened but it doesn't happen frequently. Very rare.
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