29 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Where did I assume he will suck? I said "if" he sucks. As much as you want to support his final 30 PA's and make fun of Soxtalk for declaring him bad right off the bat, the PA's before the final 30 were greater in number and so he was worse in a larger sample size.

Obviously the last 30 at bats are as meaningless as the first 30.  What matters is the elite eye and the plus power.  But so many want to draw conclusions on nothing 

4 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Obviously the last 30 at bats are as meaningless as the first 30.  What matters is the elite eye and the plus power.  But so many want to draw conclusions on nothing 

I love that you are passionate about Collins.  I've been that same way about Madrigal.  We've both taken some heat for our opinions.  Doesn't make us wrong...just makes us fans.

6 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Obviously the last 30 at bats are as meaningless as the first 30.  What matters is the elite eye and the plus power.  But so many want to draw conclusions on nothing 

Like @Chicago White Sox said, if they get Encarnacion and he sucks, in comes Collins. It's not like they'll pay Encarnacion like Machado. They'd have no issue sitting his ass down for Collins if his hitting warrants it

4 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Like @Chicago White Sox said, if they get Encarnacion and he sucks, in comes Collins. It's not like they'll pay Encarnacion like Machado. They'd have no issue sitting his ass down for Collins if his hitting warrants it

Would just get released or dumped on another team like Thome at the end of his Sox run in 2009.

10 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Would just get released or dumped on another team like Thome at the end of his Sox run in 2009.

Yea but don’t you feel like he’ll get ABs through Jun if he starts slow?  

3 hours ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

And you really don't seem to understand that Collins has a major pedigree...he was BA's freshman of the year at Miami, as a junior he led all college players in walks, he won the Buster Posey award as best college catcher.  He was a top ten draft pick.  In 2017 he was selected to the Futures game and  He led all minor league players in walks in 2018...was a Southern league all star...mid year and year end.   And yes he had a .950 OPS in 2019....then had 30 terrible at bats in June, wherein you and everyone else on Soxtalk determined he's not good...and then in his final 30 at bats in September he had a .930 OPS.   Every other fan base in baseball would be excited about Collins and we wan a 37 year old fading star. I surrender.    

Right there with you on Collins by the way. Always been a fan. 

5 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

Right there with you on Collins by the way. Always been a fan. 

Thanks ...Collins could be a bust...as could Robert or any of them.  Just so much negativity on him on the board.   We are much closer to a WS if Collins is great than if EE is.  Only way we know is to give him 400 at bats this year.  This is not dissing the very good EE...its dissing the strategy of paying and playing a 37 year old in lieu of a 24 year old.

7 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Thanks ...Collins could be a bust...as could Robert or any of them.  Just so much negativity on him on the board.   We are much closer to a WS if Collins is great than if EE is.  Only way we know is to give him 400 at bats this year.  This is not dissing the very good EE...its dissing the strategy of paying and playing a 37 year old in lieu of a 24 year old.

Personally, I'm dealing McCann for relief help as Collins can be the backup (and be mentored by Grandal) and still get consistent PAs at C/1B/DH (against RHP) and still signing Encarnacion but that's another discussion. 

1 hour ago, SoxAce said:

Personally, I'm dealing McCann for relief help as Collins can be the backup (and be mentored by Grandal) and still get consistent PAs at C/1B/DH (against RHP) and still signing Encarnacion but that's another discussion. 

But that doesn't work well as a platoon or with Grandal hitting lefties/righties equally...so Collins would only play maybe 30-40 games at catcher?    The rest at DH/PH?

How do we feel about the Keuchel deal after Ryu? I’m still good with it. 

Edited December 23, 20196 yr by soxfan3530

5 minutes ago, soxfan3530 said:

How do we feel about the Keuchel deal after Ryu? I’m still good with it. 

I think the Dbacks made out like bandits with Bumgarner over Ryu’s deal.

19 minutes ago, soxfan3530 said:

How do we feel about the Keuchel deal after Ryu? I’m still good with it. 

I would have rather signed Ryu to Keuchel's deal because the vesting option is key.

But since that's not the case, even though I prefer Ryu, I'll take Keuchel's contract. Ryu's arm worries me.

2 minutes ago, Quin said:

I would have rather signed Ryu to Keuchel's deal because the vesting option is key.

But since that's not the case, even though I prefer Ryu, I'll take Keuchel's contract. Ryu's arm worries me.

Agreed 100%

17 minutes ago, Quin said:

I would have rather signed Ryu to Keuchel's deal because the vesting option is key.

But since that's not the case, even though I prefer Ryu, I'll take Keuchel's contract. Ryu's arm worries me.

Cool non-point here. 

Twins didnt get him, so theres that

40 minutes ago, soxfan3530 said:

How do we feel about the Keuchel deal after Ryu? I’m still good with it. 

The deal for Keuchel is fair.  I did not want to give Ryu 20 a year because he's never healthy and the Sox need somebody to take the ball every 5th day.  Interesting for the Jays none the less, their payroll is like 50 million and they probably won't compete for a couple years.  The Ryu deal is better for the Jays than it would have been for the Sox if that makes any sense.

Angels and Twins are just sitting on their hands.

Crazy how competitive the NL/AL East teams are right now...other than the Marlins and Orioles.

Meanwhile, the AL Central is trending in the opposite direction.

It's hard to judge starting pitchers in this day and age since wins and losses don't matter anymore. Not flaming just trying to figure out if I like the acquisition. his ERA has been very good and he's got good strikeout to walk ratio. How fast does he fling the baseball? 90s? 95?

I certainly dont hate the Keuchel deal and am in fact happy with it, but would much prefer Ryu with that deal for only 8 million dollars more since he can be a bonafide ace. Find it weird everyone was so ready to give Wheeler 120+ mil when hes been as injured as Ryu is. I get the age difference but that makes up for 50 million less too.

36 minutes ago, greg775 said:

It's hard to judge starting pitchers in this day and age since wins and losses don't matter anymore. Not flaming just trying to figure out if I like the acquisition. his ERA has been very good and he's got good strikeout to walk ratio. How fast does he fling the baseball? 90s? 95?

Like 88/89.

36 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

I certainly dont hate the Keuchel deal and am in fact happy with it, but would much prefer Ryu with that deal for only 8 million dollars more since he can be a bonafide ace. Find it weird everyone was so ready to give Wheeler 120+ mil when hes been as injured as Ryu is. I get the age difference but that makes up for 50 million less too.

Because Wheeler's injuries stemmed from TJ and a setback.  He's clearly recovered now.

Ryu has had a multitude of different injuries and is older.

37 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

I certainly dont hate the Keuchel deal and am in fact happy with it, but would much prefer Ryu with that deal for only 8 million dollars more since he can be a bonafide ace. Find it weird everyone was so ready to give Wheeler 120+ mil when hes been as injured as Ryu is. I get the age difference but that makes up for 50 million less too.

Wheeler had TJS and then a setback, but has otherwise been healthy.  Ryu has had numerous injuries.

 

2 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Because Wheeler's injuries stemmed from TJ and a setback.  He's clearly recovered now.

Ryu has had a multitude of different injuries and is older.

Yeah, pretty much this.

One thing that crossed my mind  with Keuchel is that....don't forget...……last year he had no spring training to get prepared  for the season.  I don't care how much you train, prepare, or pitch simulated  games....IT'S Not like the REAL  thing.  So  with this year, him getting a full year of prep that is needed, and the pressure that is taken off of him for finally getting the contract  that he wanted, I am hoping that it will be that much more of a positive effect on him as well as for us this year.  (I am sure that  The Cubs are hoping the same with Kimbrel).  Plus  a lefty soft tosser that gives a different look than everyone else on our roster. Plus   a ground ball specialist  that is needed in a home run friendly park. There are a LOT of possible Positives .  Only time will tell...…………..but it least it leaves  us all with numerous  optimisms  to look for ward to  

5 hours ago, BackDoorBreach said:

The deal for Keuchel is fair.  I did not want to give Ryu 20 a year because he's never healthy and the Sox need somebody to take the ball every 5th day.  Interesting for the Jays none the less, their payroll is like 50 million and they probably won't compete for a couple years.  The Ryu deal is better for the Jays than it would have been for the Sox if that makes any sense.

Angels and Twins are just sitting on their hands.

Yeah it makes sense. They potentially have a huge flip on their hands if he is hot and healthy at the right time. And I have no idea what the Angels are doing. All that money tied up in Rendon and Trout, and they aren't trying to get a competent pitching staff for some reason.

DK induces ground balls which plays better in our ballpark. Ryu and Bum would have been good signings for us, but their talents would be diminished in our park. Ryu is a "pitcher", but he doesn't throw the ball all that hard.