7 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

I certainly dont hate the Keuchel deal and am in fact happy with it, but would much prefer Ryu with that deal for only 8 million dollars more since he can be a bonafide ace. Find it weird everyone was so ready to give Wheeler 120+ mil when hes been as injured as Ryu is. I get the age difference but that makes up for 50 million less too.

I’m so much happier with Keuchel. At absolute worst, you’re getting an innings eater who’ll keep you in games. Ryu is already at the age where keuchel will be near the end of his deal - and is oft-injured. 

7 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

I certainly dont hate the Keuchel deal and am in fact happy with it, but would much prefer Ryu with that deal for only 8 million dollars more since he can be a bonafide ace. Find it weird everyone was so ready to give Wheeler 120+ mil when hes been as injured as Ryu is. I get the age difference but that makes up for 50 million less too.

I’m surprised more aren’t saying this. Ryu was quite a bit popular.

I did think whomever gave him the fourth year would get him, that year really did scare me off him. 

Saying wheeler has been as injured as ryu is just wrong.

8 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

I certainly dont hate the Keuchel deal and am in fact happy with it, but would much prefer Ryu with that deal for only 8 million dollars more since he can be a bonafide ace. Find it weird everyone was so ready to give Wheeler 120+ mil when hes been as injured as Ryu is. I get the age difference but that makes up for 50 million less too.

That’s a huge mischaracterization. Ryu is coming off is first healthy season since like 2013, and arguably only the second in his MLb career. His injuries are myriad and include shoulder problems and leg problems and maybe even back problems (could be wrong there). Wheeler is coming off of two consecutive full healthy seasons, is younger, is in better shape, has way better stuff, and has the same standard elbow litany that half of all pitchers have. The most fixable and predictable (in a relative sense, of course) set of major injuries. 

16 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You think they’re going to play Abreu & Vaughn only 110 games each in 2021?  That is not happening buddy.  Collins can have a role going forward, but he’s got to be able to stick behind the plate for it to be meaningful at all.  There simply won’t be a ton of playing at those two spots and Grandal will certainly get a piece of the action when he’s not catching.

Vaughn is a great prospect, but let's see what he can do in his first full MiLB season first

If he's for real, he's the future 1B here in maybe as early as 2021 with Abreu shifting to DH

15 hours ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I think Abreu begins being phased out and Vaughn will be a rookie.  If Collins can hit 30 homers and walk 100 times as a lefty batter for the next ten years...I'd find a spot for him.   Still I respect your dogged love of really really old DH sorts.

Like most players, I think if Collins hits well enough, he'll be on the ML roster

Obviously he loses some value if he can't catch, but as of now he's the 2021 backup C (no need to bring back McCann) and as of now (pending a FA signing), he can get some ABs at DH and back up Abreu as well

Rather he start at AAA and tear it up honestly, just to get playing time, but as of now he has a role in this org. going forward

14 hours ago, BFirebird said:

With the 26th man on the roster I see no reason why EE and Collins can’t exist on the roster together. Having a 3rd catcher option will allow lots of different lineup constructions. Sure Collins will get less ABs that way but it helps you guard against bad offensive stretches when key guys struggle and you have absolute garbage to turn to. 

Yup, Sox will be loaded at C, 1B, and DH if EE signs but rather that than otherwise

9 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Crazy how competitive the NL/AL East teams are right now...other than the Marlins and Orioles.

Meanwhile, the AL Central is trending in the opposite direction.

Thank God for this miserable division, where the best team may blow it up

what is cool to see is that By the time Grandal, Kuechel, and Abreu contracts are up we will be able to possibly extend or pay the young talent we have.  All provided they become the star players we hope they become

Not a big fan of Keuchel, but he was the best option and should give the Sox dependable, decent 200IP. I can only applaud the Sox for signing him after getting spurned by Wheeler.

3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Saying wheeler has been as injured as ryu is just wrong.

Well, they've been in the league the same number of years and have pitched virtually the exact same number of innings, sooooo.....

I get that Wheeler had 1 terrible injury that knocked him out for a long time and Ryu several smaller injuries.  But at the end of the day, they have in fact pitched the same amount over the same amount of time.  

27 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

Not a big fan of Keuchel, but he was the best option and should give the Sox dependable, decent 200IP. I can only applaud the Sox for signing him after getting spurned by Wheeler.

Kuechel is not going to be a #1-2 guy in our rotation. We need Giolito to continue to prove himself, and a guy like Lopez/Cease/Kopech to step up and grab that #2 starter role. 

Keuchel can be that solid, veteran #3/4 starter who can our young staff get better

After missing on Wheeler, what other option beyond Keuchel was realistic? I'd rather have him than Ryu given the extensive injury history, also Dallas is a little younger. 

12 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Crazy how competitive the NL/AL East teams are right now...other than the Marlins and Orioles.

Meanwhile, the AL Central is trending in the opposite direction.

Do you think the concentration of population thus more revenue makes a difference there?

Edited December 23, 20196 yr by ptatc

Cesar Hernandez- 1 year $6.25M with Cleveland per Passan @fathom

5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Well, they've been in the league the same number of years and have pitched virtually the exact same number of innings, sooooo.....

I get that Wheeler had 1 terrible injury that knocked him out for a long time and Ryu several smaller injuries.  But at the end of the day, they have in fact pitched the same amount over the same amount of time.  

In the past two seasons, Ryu has thrown 264 innings.

In the past two seasons, Wheeler has thrown 377 innings. 

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

In the past two seasons, Ryu has thrown 264 innings.

In the past two seasons, Wheeler has thrown 377 innings. 

I prefer Wheeler to Ryu, and really none of this matters at this point.  You can pick whatever timeframe to fit your argument, but the most fair timeframe is their entire career, and they've pitched the same amount.

I do agree that Ryu is a bigger injury risk going forward which is really all that matters.  

6 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Do you think the concentration of population thus more revenue makes a difference there?

Not really, I think it's mostly quality of FO.  Look at TB.  They are a forgotten entity even in Tampa, they play in a glorified bouncy house and yet because of a strong FO they contend more often than not.

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

I prefer Wheeler to Ryu, and really none of this matters at this point.  You can pick whatever timeframe to fit your argument, but the most fair timeframe is their entire career, and they've pitched the same amount.

I do agree that Ryu is a bigger injury risk going forward which is really all that matters.  

Well no, I'm selecting the most recent time frame because it's much more valuable for project-ability than 2014.

Wheeler has been much more healthy recently, and he's 3 years younger. 

Edited December 23, 20196 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

1 hour ago, soxfan49 said:

Cesar Hernandez- 1 year $6.25M with Cleveland per Passan @fathom

Nice under the radar signing by them.

6 minutes ago, Soxnfins said:

Nice under the radar signing by them.

Pretty sure their entire infield (not counting catcher obviously) consists of switch hitters.

Just now, soxfan2014 said:

Pretty sure their entire infield (not counting catcher obviously) consists of switch hitters.

Santana, Lindor, Hernandez, Ramirez... yep

1 hour ago, soxfan49 said:

Cesar Hernandez- 1 year $6.25M with Cleveland per Passan @fathom

They still have the outfield of a team in the middle of rebuild. 

20 minutes ago, mqr said:

They still have the outfield of a team in the middle of rebuild. 

Jordan Luplow, Oscar Mercado, Tyler Naquin, Franmil Reyes, and now DeShields out there is an acceptable OF with 3-4 average players and solid depth. Might not win you the title on its own, but everyone's young and if you have stars elsewhere (P, 3b, SS) you can manage with average OF performance. 

7 hours ago, mqr said:

They still have the outfield of a team in the middle of rebuild. 

Ya and we all know too well what that shit feels like. 

16 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Jordan Luplow, Oscar Mercado, Tyler Naquin, Franmil Reyes, and now DeShields out there is an acceptable OF with 3-4 average players and solid depth. Might not win you the title on its own, but everyone's young and if you have stars elsewhere (P, 3b, SS) you can manage with average OF performance. 

I completely missed Luplow, never had heard of him, and it turns out he was better last year than any of the Sox outfielders. Post-hype guy, I guess? 

so I am still not certain about the vesting option...

 

It is 160 innings in the FINAL year OR 160 innings combined between the final two?  aka, 80 innings and 80 innings will vest it.

23 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Not really, I think it's mostly quality of FO.  Look at TB.  They are a forgotten entity even in Tampa, they play in a glorified bouncy house and yet because of a strong FO they contend more often than not.

So only the east coast teams are good at hiring FO people.

Interesting hypothesis. 

5 minutes ago, ptatc said:

So only the east coast teams are good at hiring FO people.

Interesting hypothesis. 

The Dodgers, the A's say hi.

I'd include the Astros but someone keeps banging on a trashcan every time I type their name.