2 minutes ago, aeichhor said:

 

Oddly specific for him. Imagine it's done

I don't understand the obsession with Joc, he screams another mediocre to bad signing to me. Plus he will probably get more than anyone thinks

15 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

I don't understand the obsession with Joc, he screams another mediocre to bad signing to me. Plus he will probably get more than anyone thinks

If the money is right he makes a lot of sense.

LHH RF who hits RHP really well. Allows the Sox to maximize Engel too as a RF starter vs. LHP and late inning defensive replacement for Eloy in LF.

1 hour ago, BigHurt3515 said:

I don't understand the obsession with Joc, he screams another mediocre to bad signing to me. Plus he will probably get more than anyone thinks

The numbers (aside from 2020 regular season) tell me that Joc will be a fine platoon player for us. But I'll always be reminded of our track record with signing left handed power guys who don't hit for average and strike out a lot (Dunn, Alonso, etc). 

I’d really like to get Joc and Dahl. It would give us a lot of flexibility, with giving a known value and potential upside. 

8 hours ago, chw42 said:

The numbers (aside from 2020 regular season) tell me that Joc will be a fine platoon player for us. But I'll always be reminded of our track record with signing left handed power guys who don't hit for average and strike out a lot (Dunn, Alonso, etc). 

An article I read yesterday said Joc only hits fastballs. The premise of his decline last year was that pitchers three him more change ups, which apparently he can't hit, mixed in with breaking balls. I was concerned with this info. 

4 minutes ago, yesterday333 said:

I’d really like to get Joc and Dahl. It would give us a lot of flexibility, with giving a known value and potential upside. 

Joc AND Dahl? On the surface that seems duplicative, but I can see that as the rolling RF/LF/DH move with Eloy, Engel, and Vaughn when he comes up.

Kind of mix them all in there - doesn't block Vaughn but gives us flexibility at DH at the corner OF spots. I can be sold on this. 

4 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

An article I read yesterday said Joc only hits fastballs. The premise of his decline last year was that pitchers three him more change ups, which apparently he can't hit, mixed in with breaking balls. I was concerned with this info. 

Yep, great fastball hitter but struggles with offspeed stuff

4 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

An article I read yesterday said Joc only hits fastballs. The premise of his decline last year was that pitchers three him more change ups, which apparently he can't hit, mixed in with breaking balls. I was concerned with this info. 

So it took 6 years for the league to figure out Joc can't hit anything but a fastball?  I call BS

9 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

An article I read yesterday said Joc only hits fastballs. The premise of his decline last year was that pitchers three him more change ups, which apparently he can't hit, mixed in with breaking balls. I was concerned with this info. 

Yeah that is pretty concerning. He saw a lot less fastballs last year. He struggled against change ups the most last year but that wasn't always the case in his career. 

7 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

So it took 6 years for the league to figure out Joc can't hit anything but a fastball?  I call BS

Exactly. Fathom mentions the off-the-field stuff, but one thing that may be distracted there is just your approach. If he's not all there, he is more vulnerable to being fooled by stuff he may be able to take/foul off.

I am fine being the high-man on Joc. I'm completely confident he is going to be very good on the white sox if they sign him.

8 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

So it took 6 years for the league to figure out Joc can't hit anything but a fastball?  I call BS

It could be that since they played 2/3 of their games in the NL West last year, teams have a much better idea of how to pitch to him.

8 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

So it took 6 years for the league to figure out Joc can't hit anything but a fastball?  I call BS

The numbers lined up with the argument. Joc is a fastball guy and we should be nervous about that. This is exactly the guy that comes here and will get a lot of junk and struggle. 

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

Exactly. Fathom mentions the off-the-field stuff, but one thing that may be distracted there is just your approach. If he's not all there, he is more vulnerable to being fooled by stuff he may be able to take/foul off.

I am fine being the high-man on Joc. I'm completely confident he is going to be very good on the white sox if they sign him.

Joc isn't a loser or anything, but these types of questions need answers. If it were a one year fluke I'm open to hearing an argument for that. But the fact that he is impossible to play against lefties and saw a decline last year is concerning. I love his power and energy/excitement and think thay would add a lot to the bottom of our order. 

Edited December 8, 20205 yr by SonofaRoache

Joc's batted ball data was pretty strong suggesting that the true culprit was bad luck. Im not saying the offspeed stuff isn't an issue but I think the luck is a bigger issue and by the time of the playoffs it started to turn as positive regression probably started kicking in.

If he can hit 240/350/470 as a platoon RF I am perfectly fine with that. 

Just now, SonofaRoache said:

Joc isn't a loser or anything, but these types of questions need answers. If it were a one year fluke I'm open to hearing an argument for that. But the fact that he is impossible to play against lefties and saw a decline last year is concerning. 

But it's also a 60 game season. If you add in his playoff games, his slash goes from .190/.285/.387 to .232/.314/.432 

He's not all sunshine and roses, but he has a good track record and I think he's getting too much of his negatives focused on instead of his positives. He still hits the crap out of the ball and defends.

3 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Joc's batted ball data was pretty strong suggesting that the true culprit was bad luck. Im not saying the offspeed stuff isn't an issue but I think the luck is a bigger issue and by the time of the playoffs it started to turn as positive regression probably started kicking in.

If he can hit 240/350/470 as a platoon RF I am perfectly fine with that. 

If he hit that with us we'd be doing cartwheels. 

Imagine if the Sox would have traded for Joc in 2018. We would all be pissed if they brought him back after his 2020.

1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

If he hit that with us we'd be doing cartwheels. 

But that's a fairly typical slashline from Joc, it's even fairly low for his slugging which he's hit over .500 several times.

1 minute ago, bmags said:

But it's also a 60 game season. If you add in his playoff games, his slash goes from .190/.285/.387 to .232/.314/.432 

He's not all sunshine and roses, but he has a good track record and I think he's getting too much of his negatives focused on instead of his positives. He still hits the crap out of the ball and defends.

Fair points here. Out of all of the guys on the FA market he'd be my second choice. I just want to be talked into not thinking he will be the next man to come here and fail miserably. 

3 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

If he hit that with us we'd be doing cartwheels. 

Those are practically his career averages.

27 minutes ago, Orlando said:

Imagine if the Sox would have traded for Joc in 2018. We would all be pissed if they brought him back after his 2020.

Nah, I would be pissed if they let a 60 game season cloud their judgment over 5 consecutive prior seasons of a wRC+ above 100 with solid defense

Wait till next Joc.

Forever a future White Sox now I guess.?

I'm so pissed. This team can't even do simple things right