9 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Isn't David Dahl a better option?  He will be cheaper than Joc plus he has 3 years of control, and like Joc, is coming off a bad year but the bat seemed pretty good prior and he is only 26.

Any idea how serious the shoulder surgery in September was? Just a cleanup or something more serious?

5 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Nomar Mazara had a higher WAR in 2020 than Joc.

Joc had a bad year, no doubt about it.

7 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

He seems too injury prone. If they were to add him and someone else to split time in LF and DH and fill-in CF or RF on occasion, I wouldn't that that.

It's really this. I'd buy the talent for sure if this was even the 2020 season. But we are talking about a guy whose healthy years are about 100 games. Sometimes they grow out of it, but this guy makes JD Drew look like cal ripken.

1 minute ago, bmags said:

It's really this. I'd buy the talent for sure if this was even the 2020 season. But we are talking about a guy whose healthy years are about 100 games. Sometimes they grow out of it, but this guy makes JD Drew look like cal ripken.

Dahl had a couple of fluke injuries.  One, he collided with another player and ruptured his spleen.  You make it sound like a character flaw.

6 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Joc had a bad year, no doubt about it.

He had an unlucky year. His batted ball data was very good...he should benefit from positive regression this year. 

Just now, SoCalChiSox said:

He had an unlucky year. His batted ball data was very good...he should benefit from positive regression this year. 

Also had a sick infant at home 

2 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Dahl had a couple of fluke injuries.  One, he collided with another player and ruptured his spleen.  You make it sound like a character flaw.

He ran into a wall and needed his spleen removed. He injured his ribs and was out two months. Broke his foot. And now shoulder surgery. I don't think pointing out a player can't stay healthy is a personal insult to him.

4 minutes ago, fathom said:

Also had a sick infant at home 

Any idea when the FO may be able to finalize a Joc deal?

Just now, SoCalChiSox said:

Any idea when the FO may be able to finalize a Joc deal?

No clue, but Portillos and Cishek acting like something is close.

1. Joc

2. Dahl

3. Eaton

 

This is assuming no Springer.. I don't really want to trade for a RF unless it's a stud.  Many guys I'd roll with in FA over a Calhoun (example) trade.

12 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

1. Joc

2. Dahl

3. Eaton

 

This is assuming no Springer.. I don't really want to trade for a RF unless it's a stud.  Many guys I'd roll with in FA over a Calhoun (example) trade.

 

Dahl might be a good DH option. (Keeps him healthy) 

Another thing about Dahl:

He was non-tendered so the signing team has his control rights until he accumulates enough time to be free. 

BTW I think in the next CBA FA becomes an age. It will be something like 29-31 depending on the age of the player in his first completed full season. In return players get arbitration after 2 full seasons in MLB. 

Edited December 7, 20205 yr by Jack Parkman

1 hour ago, Saufley said:

Any idea how serious the shoulder surgery in September was? Just a cleanup or something more serious?

Mostly clean up. Resected bursa, acromial bone spur and frayed labrum. He should fell a ton better.

25 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

 

Dahl might be a good DH option. (Keeps him healthy) 

Another thing about Dahl:

He was non-tendered so the signing team has his control rights until he accumulates enough time to be free. 

BTW I think in the next CBA FA becomes an age. It will be something like 29-31 depending on the age of the player in his first completed full season. In return players get arbitration after 2 full seasons in MLB. 

That sounds like Booty.. What about a high schooler who gets drafted at 18?  He's stuck for 12 years?  What about a college guy drafted at 23?

13 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

That sounds like Booty.. What about a high schooler who gets drafted at 18?  He's stuck for 12 years?  What about a college guy drafted at 23?

MLB is what matters. It's an incentive to get young stars like Franco, Eloy Acuna, etc. up to the Bigs earlier. A guy that has his first full season at 22 or earlier gets FA at 29, a guy at 23 gets it at 30, and a guy at 24 or older gets it at 31. In the majority of cases, it's still your standard 7 years as it is now with time manipulation. The other side is if you get a HS or Int'l guy that's ready at 20 or 21......you get more value by calling them to the bigs rather than leaving them the minors. Age is determined by the calendar year of the season. If the guy is 23 any time in the calendar year, you get him until he's 30. I think it both helps teams compete and helps get players to MLB faster.

However, players that have to be demoted a bunch are subject to 6 full years of service time. It gives the players an opportunity to prove themselves in MLB sooner, and at the same time allows for some safety for the team if the player struggles. Examples of service time manipulation like sending a guy down during the ASB or something like that can be defined in the CBA and be considered illegal. 

Edited December 7, 20205 yr by Jack Parkman

This may have been discussed earlier in the thread, but where Dahl is concerned, the Home/Away splits are concerning to me. Even in 2019, they were concerning. 

6 minutes ago, Stealth G.O.A.T. said:

This may have been discussed earlier in the thread, but where Dahl is concerned, the Home/Away splits are concerning to me. Even in 2019, they were concerning. 

I think most of us just don't think home away splits are a thing. Way overanalyzed for coors hitters. There are a few places I think it matters (lemahieu unlikely to repeat his power outside of yankee stadiums short rf fence) but most hitters hit better at home.

It just seems to me Joc will be the most expensive of the group where it’s a crapshoot who will be better, which seems to me for a team that apparently needs to count its shekels, the wrong move. 

 

4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It just seems to me Joc will be the most expensive of the group where it’s a crapshoot who will be better, which seems to me for a team that apparently needs to count its shekels, the wrong move. 

 

They love Joc though, and that is the difference. 

The word "Sox" is plural, just say Sock or work around it.  Seriously though.  If you disagree, insert the north side team in the title of this article and see how ya like it.

People better temper their expectations with Pederson. I have a die-hard Dodgers fans and he used one word to describe Pederson: streaky. I don't get the love fest he gets from some people. If you can't stand Grandal, you better lump Pederson into the same category and expect similar results. At least Grandal is at the top of the catcher pool of talent, where as Pederson is firmly in the middle of the pack.

I’d prefer Eaton in this price range.

2 hours ago, Stealth G.O.A.T. said:

This may have been discussed earlier in the thread, but where Dahl is concerned, the Home/Away splits are concerning to me. Even in 2019, they were concerning. 

Rockies' players have always had that problem.  Coors Field "Hangover".

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

I’d prefer Eaton in this price range.

Perhaps on paper, but 24 players in the clubhouse would likely want someone/anyone else.

I like Jackie Bradley Jr, the fact he can back up Roberts for scheduled days off and any injuries, and also would help the pitching staff playing regularly in RF. If they also signed Schwarber, their lineup against RH and LH would be awesome. (Career OPS splits below);

Versus RHP: 3B Moncada .813; LF/DH Schwarber .859; 1B Abreu .853; DH/LF Jimenez .864; C Grandal .797; SS Anderson .709; CF Robert .718; RF Bradley .752; 2B Madrigal .821.

Versus LHP: SS Anderson .869; C Grandal .781; 1B Abreu .927; LF/DH Jimenez .801; CF Robert .807; 3B Moncada .702; DH/LF Schwarber .650; RF Bradley .685; 2B Madrigal .455.

Bench: C Collins; INF Mendick INF/OF Garcia OF Engel

Currently, the Sox baseline payroll is $65.4M for hitters & $32.4M for pitchers, or $97.8M without any free agents. If the Sox spend $15.8M more ($1.0M less the $1.2M ML minimum) for the two proposed free agents, it brings payroll to $113.6M before spending on a free agent SP and or RP.

Fan Graph 2021 Projections ($ Contract / fWAR / OPS / HR): Hitters $81.2M plus 

1. Y. Grandal $18.3M 4.4 .801 25
2. J. Abreu $17.7M 1.9 .829 34
3. J. Bradley Jr. $10.0M 1.5 .717 22
4. T. Anderson $7.3M 2.3 .761 23
5. K. Schwarber $7.0M 2.1 .849 34
6. Y. Moncada $6.8M 3.2 .778 23
7. E. Jimenez $4.3M 3.8 .890 40
8. L. Robert $3.5M 3.6 .798 31
9. L Garcia $3.5M 0.1 .672 8
10.  A. Engel $1.0M 0.3 .665 12
11. N. Madrigal $0.6M 2.9 .772 8
12. D. Mendick $0.6M 0.2 .693 2
13. Z. Collins $0.6M 0.5 .712 5

Pitching Payroll / fWAR $32.4M

• SP D. Keuchel $18.0M 2.2
• SP L. Giolito $2.5M 3.3
• Buyouts $2.3M (K. Herrera  $1.0M; S. Cishek $0.8M; Gonzalez $0.5M) 0.0
• RP A. Bummer $2.0M 1.1
• SP R. Lopez $1.7M 0.5
• RP E. Marshall $1.4M 0.4
• RP J. Fry $0.9M 0.1
• SP D. Cease $0.6M 1.4
• RP J. Cordero $0.6M 0.1
• RP C. Heuer $0.6M 0.5
• SP M. Kopech $0.6M 1.5
• RP J. Lambert $0.6M 0.0
• RP M. Foster $0.6M 0.0

Source for Arbitration Estimates

What is everyone’s best guess on what a joc deal would look like financially?