per the Athletic

I'd post it but I'm not sure I'm allowed to post articles behind a paywall

Anyway the story is UGLY

Obviously you can post links:

Glad he's out of the org.

Well that's not gonna help his hof votes

He seemed like a guy the White Sox were grooming, then suddenly he was gone. I wonder if this shit had anything to do with it.

Just now, Dick Allen said:

He seemed like a guy the White Sox were grooming, then suddenly he was gone. I wonder if this shit had anything to do with it.

I think it was the fact he prioritized winning over the development of our minor leaguers that cost him his job.  He literally platooned left-handed hitters that needed to be exposed to LHP if they ever wanted a chance of improving.  Obviously that’s just me guessing though.

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think it was the fact he prioritized winning over the development of our minor leaguers that cost him his job.  He literally platooned left-handed hitters that needed to be exposed to LHP if they ever wanted a chance of improving.  Obviously that’s just me guessing though.

I'm sure those in-game tactics didn't help him any in the eyes of the Sox, but his incident with a Barons team employee may have been the last straw. 

Sounds like there was more to his dismissal from the Sox:
 

Quote

Additionally, MLB probed an incident from 2019 when Vizquel was managing the Double-A Birmingham Barons, a minor league affiliate within the Chicago White Sox organization. The incident, which involved a male team employee, led to Vizquel being dismissed as manager of the team in the month before his one-year contract expired, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation.

 

The wild part is that this has been playing out on her Instagram Live and in Venezuelan media (I'm learning this from the article). Yet it somehow flew under the radar until this piece.

This stood out:

Quote

Additionally, a representative of Vizquel reached out to The Athletic to provide “a brief presentation with some of the background on the allegations against Mr. Vizquel.” That 11-page PDF document is titled “The facts on the smear campaign against Omar Vizquel.” It includes bullet points that note, among other things, that “Vizquel was accused of fourth-degree assault, the least serious level.” The “conclusions” section of the presentation highlights that Vizquel is a finalist for the Hall of Fame. 

His representative is basically saying "It's not even the worst assault and you should be focusing on his baseball career."

Also,  of course, people online can be trash:

Quote

Blanca said she knew online hate and campaigns of intimidation would be a reality if she came forward (“I was silent for a long time because I knew this was coming.”) but did not anticipate the level of vitriol she received. Blanca also said some of Vizquel’s fans posted nasty messages on her Instagram page, including suggestions that she kill herself.

The whole piece is worth the read, but damn if it isn't difficult at points.

Yikes. Really ugly story. Amazing how someone with such a dual personality like that and so many incidents can remain so hidden for so long. Hopefully he gets what’s coming to him. Terrible that she stuck with him for so long. No one should have to go through that. 

This really shouldn’t affect his HOF voting because he doesn’t belong in the Hall. Guy simply wasn’t good enough as a player. Gold glove awards alone shouldn’t put you in among the greats.

Edited December 16, 20205 yr by CWSpalehoseCWS

I will never get what happens in people's brains to justify this kind of behavior towards others.

2 hours ago, Quin said:

The wild part is that this has been playing out on her Instagram Live and in Venezuelan media (I'm learning this from the article). Yet it somehow flew under the radar until this piece.

This stood out:

His representative is basically saying "It's not even the worst assault and you should be focusing on his baseball career."

Also,  of course, people online can be trash:

The whole piece is worth the read, but damn if it isn't difficult at points.

The "Hall of Fame Baseball Person" strategy is becoming more popular. Another innovation to credit to TLR.

But did he hit a curb?

31 minutes ago, gusguyman said:

The "Hall of Fame Baseball Person" strategy is becoming more popular. Another innovation to credit to TLR.

As long as people are willing to carry his dirty laundry for him and make excuses for him why wouldn't they use it?

9 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Yikes. Really ugly story. Amazing how someone with such a dual personality like that and so many incidents can remain so hidden for so long. Hopefully he gets what’s coming to him. Terrible that she stuck with him for so long. No one should have to go through that. 

This really shouldn’t affect his HOF voting because he doesn’t belong in the Hall. Guy simply wasn’t good enough as a player. Gold glove awards alone shouldn’t put you in among the greats.

I had always thought he had an argument, as he was literally one of the best fielders I had ever seen (I guess I don't know if there are any advanced stats, etc., that dispute that). However, no longer.

10 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Yikes. Really ugly story. Amazing how someone with such a dual personality like that and so many incidents can remain so hidden for so long. Hopefully he gets what’s coming to him. Terrible that she stuck with him for so long. No one should have to go through that. 

This really shouldn’t affect his HOF voting because he doesn’t belong in the Hall. Guy simply wasn’t good enough as a player. Gold glove awards alone shouldn’t put you in among the greats.

Agreed, unless you are truly an all time best ever at a key defensive position, which Vizquel wasn’t.

Player / bWAR / dWAR / JAWS (Score/Position Rank)

Ozzie Smith 76.9 / 44.2 / 76.9 (9th)

Brooks Robinson 78.4 / 39.1 / 78.4 (8th)

Omar Vizquel 45.6 / 29.5 / 45.6 (41st)

I’d consider Vizquel closer to a Nellie Fox, who also was rightfully passed over by the BBWAA, though like with too many players, the Veterans committee couldn’t resist. Fox had a better case, but neither should be in unless you are looking at a very watered down 500 + induct 4-5 players every year hall of fame. BBWAA not the greatest process, but prefer their much stricter criteria vs. the crony reach veterans committee criteria.

Nellie Fox 49.5 / 21 / 49 (23rd)

Get in line.

11 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think it was the fact he prioritized winning over the development of our minor leaguers that cost him his job.  He literally platooned left-handed hitters that needed to be exposed to LHP if they ever wanted a chance of improving.  Obviously that’s just me guessing though.

I think I remember he’s was the manager who used to sit Rutherford against lefties the whole year. 

2 minutes ago, runtheballdown said:

I think I remember he’s was the manager who used to sit Rutherford against lefties the whole year. 

Sheets too and called for a billion bunts

5 minutes ago, runtheballdown said:

I think I remember he’s was the manager who used to sit Rutherford against lefties the whole year. 

Rutherford and Sheets.  Maybe Steele Walker too, can’t recall if he was on that team.

11 hours ago, Sleepy Harold said:

I'm sure those in-game tactics didn't help him any in the eyes of the Sox, but his incident with a Barons team employee may have been the last straw. 

Interesting...what happened there?

11 hours ago, almagest said:

Sounds like there was more to his dismissal from the Sox:
 

 

Nevermind, there it is...lol

5 minutes ago, fathom said:

Sheets too and called for a billion bunts

The bunts were also brutal...dude loved the small ball

That dwar still puts him in top ten of all players of all time. Ozzie is just way ahead of everybody else

1 hour ago, Vulture said:

That dwar still puts him in top ten of all players of all time. Ozzie is just way ahead of everybody else

Number two is Mark Belanger, his bat wasn't good enough to lift his overall WAR or his chances at the HOF. And neither is Vizquel.

Mark Belanger: oWAR 14.7; dWAR 39.5; bWAR 40.9; JAWS 36.4 (40th among SS)

Omar Vizquel: oWAR 32.9; dWAR 29.5; bWAR 45.6; JAWS 36.2 (41st among SS)

Average SS HOF: 67.5 bWAR; JAWS 55.3

 

 

6 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Number two is Mark Belanger, his bat wasn't good enough to lift his overall WAR or his chances at the HOF. And neither is Vizquel.

Mark Belanger: oWAR 14.7; dWAR 39.5; bWAR 40.9; JAWS 36.4 (40th among SS)

Omar Vizquel: oWAR 32.9; dWAR 29.5; bWAR 45.6; JAWS 36.2 (41st among SS)

Average SS HOF: 67.5 bWAR; JAWS 55.3

 

 

I wouldnt put much stock in dWAR either from baseballref or fangraphs. Theres still a ton of kinks in that portion or the WAR equation.  
 

vizquel was an incredible fielder.