Just now, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I may have worded that wrong.  They have to give up a prospect for Gray.

Depends who

Just now, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I may have worded that wrong.  They have to give up a prospect for Gray.

Depends on who it is, but I like the idea of Gray.

17 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Who would you rather have:  Wainwright at 1yr/$6M or Jon Gray + a prospect at 1yr/$6M?

I hate the idea of giving up a quality prospect for him, and giving a spot to a guy you are gambling on in 2021.  If we were still in a 2019 situation where results didn't matter, I would be more pro-Gray for sure.  But in 2021, I would rather put a guy into the rotation you are pretty sure is going to be a 45-50 out of 80 with a high level of certainty, versus a guy who could be a 55 if things go right, but could also be a 35 or a  40.  The search for lottery tickets is more limited now.

3 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Gray and Rodgers for Madrigal and Stiever

Now you're talkin!

I would say Wainwright is safer bet.  Gray was just awful last year.

2 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Now you're talkin!

Can I be a GM now?

Not saying it would be a 1-for-1 trade, but Collins is the exact type of player the Rockies should take a chance on.

8 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Now you're talkin!

Do you have any opinions on Gray last year and his lack of swing and miss? Someone mentioned a shoulder, but I don't see anything specific in his numbers, it just all looks worse.

25 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Who would you rather have:  Wainwright at 1yr/$6M or Jon Gray + a prospect at 1yr/$6M?

Wainwright hands down.  Both equally risky for durability.  Waino would make the switch to the AL much better; his savvy vs unfamiliar hitters.   No contest for the playoffs. 

1 minute ago, bmags said:

Do you have any opinions on Gray last year and his lack of swing and miss? Someone mentioned a shoulder, but I don't see anything specific in his numbers, it just all looks worse.

Shoulder inflammation killed his velocity 

1 minute ago, fathom said:

Shoulder inflammation killed his velocity 

doesn't look that different than 2018 where he was bad but not awful. I hate colorado pitchers, all of their statcast movement graphs look like garbage, it's impossible to know what's going on.

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, bmags said:

Do you have any opinions on Gray last year and his lack of swing and miss? Someone mentioned a shoulder, but I don't see anything specific in his numbers, it just all looks worse.

I'm trying to keep anything that happened last year out of the equation.  

Just now, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I'm trying to keep anything that happened last year out of the equation.  

Was Gray so bad last year that even Madrigal could hit him hard?  

Just now, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I'm trying to keep anything that happened last year out of the equation.  

Even if he's injured?

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

Even if he's injured?

He didn't have surgery.  

20 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

He didn't have surgery.  

What would a trade for him look like?

1 minute ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

What would a trade for him look like?

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/jon-gray-592351?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb

Yikes, Gray's baseball savant is ugly after that 2020 performance. I'd rather look elsewhere for a SP. 

As for trade value? Gray's has to be pretty low at this point.

10 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

What would a trade for him look like?

Low level latin players seem to be in vogue.  

I think Gray would be a huge win over what I actually think they will end up doing (stand pat)

The Sox can only have so many pitchers around that they need to "fix" or "get right."  Gray makes sense for a team like the Cubs or something, who have precious little to trade, need to catch lightning in a bottle to contend, and have so many holes which are so big that someone like Gray is actually an obvious upgrade.

At least Wainwright doesn't have to be "fixed."  If he sucks then he should only last into the first or second week of June tops.

There are better options on the FA market but the Sox aren't going to sign any of them so whatever.

If it's a trade, again, I would look at the Yankees.  They have several tweener types who are going to get pushed out of the rotation and one of those guys could make sense as a LR oif things don't work out.  I think they will look to keep Montgomery, Garcia, and Schmidt but the others like Loaisiga and Cessa should be available.  I'm not sure what the issue on German is (I know it is domestic violence related) but if it's not too bad maybe he would be an option as well.  Probably not.  Regardless all of those guys have MLB experience as SPs and I do also believe Montgomery is gettable but he'd cost more.

I'm also okay with a volume-of-quality deal for Marco Gonzales if the Mariners are willing to accept Madrigal as a centerpiece with Kelly (and hopefully Stiever also) left out of the deal.  

Another trade idea: Sox trade for Eovaldi from BOS, with BOS eating a lot of cash in the deal.  BOS eats that contract down to about $6M per and the Sox give up "audition" type pieces like Collins, Mendick, Burdi, etc. who can get some playing time over there, and then maybe they give up Thompson or Dalquist and a guy who is kind of a longshot like Lenyn Sosa or something.

27 minutes ago, YourWhatHurts said:

The Sox can only have so many pitchers around that they need to "fix" or "get right."  Gray makes sense for a team like the Cubs or something, who have precious little to trade, need to catch lightning in a bottle to contend, and have so many holes which are so big that someone like Gray is actually an obvious upgrade.

At least Wainwright doesn't have to be "fixed."  If he sucks then he should only last into the first or second week of June tops.

There are better options on the FA market but the Sox aren't going to sign any of them so whatever.

If it's a trade, again, I would look at the Yankees.  They have several tweener types who are going to get pushed out of the rotation and one of those guys could make sense as a LR oif things don't work out.  I think they will look to keep Montgomery, Garcia, and Schmidt but the others like Loaisiga and Cessa should be available.  I'm not sure what the issue on German is (I know it is domestic violence related) but if it's not too bad maybe he would be an option as well.  Probably not.  Regardless all of those guys have MLB experience as SPs and I do also believe Montgomery is gettable but he'd cost more.

I'm also okay with a volume-of-quality deal for Marco Gonzales if the Mariners are willing to accept Madrigal as a centerpiece with Kelly (and hopefully Stiever also) left out of the deal.  

I totally get it. But wouldn't we want another "sure thing" in the rotation or at least someone with a lot of upside? Settling for Wainwright is just such a bummer. 

It’s amazing in retrospect we gave Derek Holland so much in a non-compete year but now can’t seem to locate $6-8 million (at least not yet) when we’re actually trying to compete.  Or Ivan Nova...I mean, I realize we were protecting the likes of Cease, Lopez and Kopech, but that money would come in quite handy now.

Edited January 27, 20215 yr by caulfield12

1 hour ago, YourWhatHurts said:

Another trade idea: Sox trade for Eovaldi from BOS, with BOS eating a lot of cash in the deal.  BOS eats that contract down to about $6M per and the Sox give up "audition" type pieces like Collins, Mendick, Burdi, etc. who can get some playing time over there, and then maybe they give up Thompson or Dalquist and a guy who is kind of a longshot like Lenyn Sosa or something.

There's lots of love out there for Eovaldi... but he can't stay healthy, so hard pass on it. 

Tomorrow feels like Wainwright day, one way or the other.