5 hours ago, BrianAnderson said:

I've been saying that for about a year and half now. Moncada is Joe Crede. Which is fine. You don't need 9 superstars to win a WS. however, he's not going to be a superstar. He's a nice bat around 6/7 in the lineup. He can get hot and carry a team for a bit, but at the end of the day he's an above average player who may have a couple all-star seasons. 

 

Also makes you think why do we have a 12 page thread on a guy in Madrigal that just puts bat to ball consistently. 

Ok, I’ll bite - how is Yoan = Joe Crede? Crede generated about 2.5 fWAR per 162 and Yoan is significantly better. I don’t understand the comparison. Yoan has almost as much career WAR as Crede does and will likely pass his career totals this season or early next season. 

The Covid bit is a hard sell for me. Yoan is doing exceptionally well against fastballs this year, I would think it would be the opposite if he was weaker no?

On 4/22/2021 at 12:56 PM, Jack Parkman said:

His whole full season stats

 

21 hours ago, black jack said:

You're supposed to hit fastballs and the hangers.

Occasionally run into a good breaker.  

I think we all hope Yoan can hit his ceiling as guy who hits .270-.300+, with an OBP .75 or more points above his BA, and slugging over 500. So out of curiosity I pulled up the first 3 guys I could think of who fit that profile pretty well:

Anthony Rendon:

Kris Bryant:

Mike Trout:

 

Looking at these other guys, its not Moncada's 2018/2020 that is the outlier - it is actually 2019 that is the weird one. Black Jack is absolutely right, these other stars do the majority of their damage on fastballs. So hypothetically is shouldn't be a problem if Moncada's pitch type splits look like 2020.... unless the only reason he had such a massive year in 2019 has to do with the fact that he had a weird, possibly unsustainable split over pitch types.

2 hours ago, reiks12 said:

The Covid bit is a hard sell for me. Yoan is doing exceptionally well against fastballs this year, I would think it would be the opposite if he was weaker no?

The "covid bit" came from Moncada himself as well by the way.

Offspeed home run nerds

He tripled his hits on breaking pitches in one night. 

5/37, 5 BBs to open the season 

10/33, 2 BBs since

I do think there is some truth that Yoan needs to focus less on walks and more on being aggressive earlier in counts 

 

I thought he has 2 homers on breaking balls this year. 

8 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

5/37, 5 BBs to open the season 

10/33, 2 BBs since

I do think there is some truth that Yoan needs to focus less on walks and more on being aggressive earlier in counts 

 

Seems like he goes through these stretches where he is overly selective and it hurts his overall game.  He just needs to find the right balance in which he isn’t passing on pitches that he should be punishing.

21 hours ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Ok, I’ll bite - how is Yoan = Joe Crede? Crede generated about 2.5 fWAR per 162 and Yoan is significantly better. I don’t understand the comparison. Yoan has almost as much career WAR as Crede does and will likely pass his career totals this season or early next season. 

Not WAR related at all. I mean, he's really just a guy. Moncada is a nice piece. But he's not going to be a MVP candidate type of guy. He's in the category with the Yasmani Grandal's of the world. He's more Matt Chapman than he is Bregman or Rendon. That's all. NOt that controversial - just saying he's an above average player, but not this top, top echelon prospect people were hoping for. 

48 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

Not WAR related at all. I mean, he's really just a guy. Moncada is a nice piece. But he's not going to be a MVP candidate type of guy. He's in the category with the Yasmani Grandal's of the world. He's more Matt Chapman than he is Bregman or Rendon. That's all. NOt that controversial - just saying he's an above average player, but not this top, top echelon prospect people were hoping for. 

So Matt Chapman is just “a guy” and Moncada being that type of player is underwhelming? What in the hell are you even talking about?

35 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

So Matt Chapman is just “a guy” and Moncada being that type of player is underwhelming? What in the hell are you even talking about?

Matt Chapman has two Top 7 MVP finishes the past three seasons, finishing with 7.6 and 7.9 bWAR. Frank Thomas' highest bWAR for a season is 7.3.

Most Sox fans, and many MVP voters, would also be completely satisfied with 7+ bWAR seasons from Yoan Moncada.

Does Yoan have it in him? Now that he is reaching his peak seasons, I believe Sox fans are hoping to see him reach full potential and exceed his 2019 finish of 5.1,

Didn't he homer off a breakingball/offspeed pitch yesterday 

7 minutes ago, Moncada said:

Didn't he homer off a breakingball/offspeed pitch yesterday 

I believe he had three hits off breaking pitches including the homer.  

We can close this thread.  

He could also be gleyber Torres who is on the verge of being benched for a 31 year old journeyman.

23 hours ago, reiks12 said:

The Covid bit is a hard sell for me. Yoan is doing exceptionally well against fastballs this year, I would think it would be the opposite if he was weaker no?

Some people will use the covid bit whenever he is struggling, for the rest of his career tbh

Edited April 24, 20214 yr by ron883

47 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

He could also be gleyber Torres who is on the verge of being benched for a 31 year old journeyman.

Except against the Orioles...

On 4/24/2021 at 1:07 PM, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

So Matt Chapman is just “a guy” and Moncada being that type of player is underwhelming? What in the hell are you even talking about?

I don't know what to tell you. Apparently you're getting overly worked up a pretty vanilla statement. There are tiers across baseball ... some are murkier than others, and some positions deeper than others. If you were given your choice of a 3B for the Sox championship window how would you rank them?

And what were you expectations of Moncada after the Sale trade and when he was a top prospect of MLB? But go ahead and get upset over a pretty simple statement on a message board. 

 

I'd have Bregman, Rendon, Jose Ramirez, as my top 3. My next 3 would be a combo Arenado, Devers, Machado. After that? I'd probably have the group of Chapman, Moncada, Bohm, McNeil, etc. Vladdy would slot somewhere in there depending on if there's belief he's a 3B. 

 

So that's what the hell I'm talking about. He's good. He's not even top tier at his position, let alone top tier of baseball which was many people's expectations coming over from the trade. And yes, Matt Chapman is a guy. A guy who will have 3-4 All-Star seasons , a nice career, but is not a superstar. Moncada will be the same. He may have a top 10 finish at MVP -- you know who else has done that ?Carlos Quentin. A guy. Sorry to upset you ... Moncada is just a guy. an above average role player that can have a few good seasons. He's not a perennial all-star, Abreu, face of the franchise guy. he's just a guy. 

 

On 4/22/2021 at 11:53 PM, South Sider said:

I doubt all players hit their ceilings at 25. But perhaps we differ.

I do worry about his legs though. They just seem weird.

I worry about his legs too. That really might be his biggest problem. Never heard this mentioned before, but this is a legit observation. I think sometimes, he's TOO muscular. Especially in his lower body. I know all the talk of athletes being "bigger and stronger than ever before." And that statement is always used in a positive sense. But maybe it can be negative as well. Because it seems like every time he makes a strong start and stop around the bases, runs hard down the first base line, or does anything strenuous with his legs, he acts like he's pulled a hamstring. And someone mentioned about him not stealing bases on here. I don't even want him even attempting a stolen base with the way he acts after doing anything with his legs. He even looks uncomfortable with his legs swinging the bat sometimes. And if his legs are bothering him, that will affect his hitting as well. 

Skip leg day Yoan

2 hours ago, BrianAnderson said:

I don't know what to tell you. Apparently you're getting overly worked up a pretty vanilla statement. There are tiers across baseball ... some are murkier than others, and some positions deeper than others. If you were given your choice of a 3B for the Sox championship window how would you rank them?

And what were you expectations of Moncada after the Sale trade and when he was a top prospect of MLB? But go ahead and get upset over a pretty simple statement on a message board. 

 

I'd have Bregman, Rendon, Jose Ramirez, as my top 3. My next 3 would be a combo Arenado, Devers, Machado. After that? I'd probably have the group of Chapman, Moncada, Bohm, McNeil, etc. Vladdy would slot somewhere in there depending on if there's belief he's a 3B. 

 

So that's what the hell I'm talking about. He's good. He's not even top tier at his position, let alone top tier of baseball which was many people's expectations coming over from the trade. And yes, Matt Chapman is a guy. A guy who will have 3-4 All-Star seasons , a nice career, but is not a superstar. Moncada will be the same. He may have a top 10 finish at MVP -- you know who else has done that ?Carlos Quentin. A guy. Sorry to upset you ... Moncada is just a guy. an above average role player that can have a few good seasons. He's not a perennial all-star, Abreu, face of the franchise guy. he's just a guy. 

 

Bohm hasn’t proven anything yet...at least at the big league level.  He needs to at least have a full 850-875 ops season before he’s anointed as anything besides potential.

4 hours ago, Soxsi75 said:

I worry about his legs too. That really might be his biggest problem. Never heard this mentioned before, but this is a legit observation. I think sometimes, he's TOO muscular. Especially in his lower body. I know all the talk of athletes being "bigger and stronger than ever before." And that statement is always used in a positive sense. But maybe it can be negative as well. Because it seems like every time he makes a strong start and stop around the bases, runs hard down the first base line, or does anything strenuous with his legs, he acts like he's pulled a hamstring. And someone mentioned about him not stealing bases on here. I don't even want him even attempting a stolen base with the way he acts after doing anything with his legs. He even looks uncomfortable with his legs swinging the bat sometimes. And if his legs are bothering him, that will affect his hitting as well. 

Did you see that swing in one of the last few games where on the follow through he just dropped his bat behind him ? My first thought was his back was bothering him. That would not be unusual for a 3rd baseman. Plus with back pain you are going to be walking around gingerly after a sprint or a slide making it appear like it's your legs that are bothering you. Also very often back pain affects your legs .

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=50&type=8&season=2021&month=0&season1=2021&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2021-01-01&enddate=2021-12-31&sort=21,d&page=1_30
 

Moncada leading all of MLB in FG defense.

Eaton Top 30.

Robert is lower than expected.  TA in same vicinity.  (How Avi Garcia, for example, is higher...no idea)

Abreu at -0.8 and Madrigal at -1.1, but overall 0.3 fWAR would give him roughly 2-2.5 for a full season.

Gallo, who won a Gold Glove last year, at the very bottom.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=50&type=8&season=2021&month=0&season1=2021&ind=0&team=4&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2021-01-01&enddate=2021-12-31

Moncada 36th in fWAR despite his "slow start".  Champagne problems on the Sox so far this year.

Edited April 26, 20214 yr by chitownsportsfan

Moncada needs some yoga