7 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

All JR sitting this one out means is he realizes there are enough owners that share his opinion where he doesn't  have to take the bad pub like last time. He is loving Manfred taking all this heat, but remember he was the one that kept his appointment from being unanimous  because he thought he would be too soft with the union. It is smart he is sitting it out. Why take the heat if you don't have to?

I think we need to acknowledge that Jerry doesn’t have a ton of time left on this planet and right now an increased CBT is helpful to him.  Back in 1994 he had 30 years of ownership ahead of him and breaking the union made much more long-term sense.  His focus right now should be winning a championship and hopefully that’s the reason he’s not actively fighting for reduced spending limits.

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think we need to acknowledge that Jerry doesn’t have a ton of time left on this planet and right now an increased CBT is helpful to him.  Back in 1994 he had 30 years of ownership ahead of him and breaking the union made much more long-term sense.  His focus right now should be winning a championship and hopefully that’s the reason he’s not actively fighting for reduced spending limits.

All we know with some confidence is that he didn’t openly oppose a $220 million luxury tax that doesn’t go up again for 4 years. 

There is probably a reason why the owners didn’t offer anything better than that - they can lose 7 votes but only had 4 against their so-called final offer. This implies that there was a substantial group of owners who made it clear they would vote against anything more flexible than that. Furthermore, it also suggests that there are no powerful owners pushing hard to put a deal on the table that could bridge the gaps with the union and bringing other owners on board - JR could absolutely have been that guy if he wanted.

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

This international draft idea rules. Way better than the current system. 

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

All JR sitting this one out means is he realizes there are enough owners that share his opinion where he doesn't  have to take the bad pub like last time. He is loving Manfred taking all this heat, but remember he was the one that kept his appointment from being unanimous  because he thought he would be too soft with the union. It is smart he is sitting it out. Why take the heat if you don't have to?

The actual final vote for Manfred was unanimous. A various points it was 20-10 and 26-4.

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think we need to acknowledge that Jerry doesn’t have a ton of time left on this planet and right now an increased CBT is helpful to him.  Back in 1994 he had 30 years of ownership ahead of him and breaking the union made much more long-term sense.  His focus right now should be winning a championship and hopefully that’s the reason he’s not actively fighting for reduced spending limits.

14 playoff teams and the AL Central s plenty of reason for him to remain under the CBT. He has never flirted with it before, he doesn't even flirt with being taxed with the Bulls where he doesn't even deny he prints money.

Here’s a link where JR thinks the owners proposal in October was very fair.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/white-sox-chairman-jerry-reinsdorf-owners-cba-offer-very-fair

 

Edited March 5, 20224 yr by Dick Allen

 

5 hours ago, fathom said:

Well for starters, other sports don’t see players at risk of getting hit by a 100 mph hard ball if it slips out of a pitcher’s hand.

That can/will happen when it's not raining. I'd bet that when games are being played in rain before a delay their is no discernable difference in the amount of batters hit.

This is how it is supposed to work.  Each side has found out what the other side will and won't be amenable to doing.  Now each side gets a biggy that they wanted all along.  Owners get 14 playoff teams...players get appreciably higher CBT & maybe some additional minimum salary...everybody is happy and it's report to camp time.

46 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

14 playoff teams and the AL Central s plenty of reason for him to remain under the CBT. He has never flirted with it before, he doesn't even flirt with being taxed with the Bulls where he doesn't even deny he prints money.

Here’s a link where JR thinks the owners proposal in October was very fair.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/white-sox-chairman-jerry-reinsdorf-owners-cba-offer-very-fair

 

The White Sox CBT payroll is $194 million right now. It'll be the highest payroll in franchise history pretty easily. They'll subtract Kimbrel but I'm very confident that additions are also on the way. 

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

All we know with some confidence is that he didn’t openly oppose a $220 million luxury tax that doesn’t go up again for 4 years. 

There is probably a reason why the owners didn’t offer anything better than that - they can lose 7 votes but only had 4 against their so-called final offer. This implies that there was a substantial group of owners who made it clear they would vote against anything more flexible than that. Furthermore, it also suggests that there are no powerful owners pushing hard to put a deal on the table that could bridge the gaps with the union and bringing other owners on board - JR could absolutely have been that guy if he wanted.

I don't really agree here. You need 23 owners on board. I've been told that Reinsdorf has mostly stayed out of it but also that he wants to play baseball. This team can win a title and his friend is the manager. He has influence but that doesn't mean he can get 7 rich assholes to change their minds. Luckily for all of us, the 14 team playoff will likely change everyone's mind. Hopefully this week. 

3 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

The White Sox CBT payroll is $194 million right now. It'll be the highest payroll in franchise history pretty easily. They'll subtract Kimbrel but I'm very confident that additions are also on the way. 

Yes but he won’t go over.

5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Yes but he won’t go over.

Probably not but they don't need to go over 

23 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Probably not but they don't need to go over 

Maybe not this year, but the core isn’t getting cheaper in the future.

20 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Maybe not this year, but the core isn’t getting cheaper in the future.

Jose in another year will be blocking Vaughn.  Saying goodbye to Abreu would be the easy way to clear out payroll.  JR would hate it but Tampa Bay wouldn't think twice.

 

58 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Jose in another year will be blocking Vaughn.  Saying goodbye to Abreu would be the easy way to clear out payroll.  JR would hate it but Tampa Bay wouldn't think twice.

 

Vaughn is currently blocked. If Eloy doesn't get hurt last year Vaughn spends the season in the minors. 

Edited March 5, 20224 yr by Jack Parkman

13 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Vaughn is currently blocked. If Eloy doesn't get hurt last year Vaughn spends the season in the minors. 

He'll be fighting for that DH spot with Sheets 

2 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I don't really agree here. You need 23 owners on board. I've been told that Reinsdorf has mostly stayed out of it but also that he wants to play baseball. This team can win a title and his friend is the manager. He has influence but that doesn't mean he can get 7 rich assholes to change their minds. Luckily for all of us, the 14 team playoff will likely change everyone's mind. Hopefully this week. 

I thought this when you said it the first time so I'm going to say it - that is an awfully self-serving message for the team to leak. That sounds like exactly how they work with the rest of the Chicago Media - give them some leaks or stories sometimes, so that when they want good press or when they want to make sure that people don't ask any extra questions, the Chicago Media go along with what the team wants and print it to keep their access and stay on their good sides. Didn't two other reporters get the exact same message that day so that it got onto the radio? That has all the characteristics of the team putting out talking points.

Oh...and regarding him "having influence" - want to see something interesting? The "Reinsdorf block" of teams that voted against Manfred included Arizona, Cincinnati, and Los Angeles Angels - 3 of the 4 teams who voted against the last deal on Tuesday (and the 4th team, Detroit, has had an ownership inheritance since then). 

50 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Vaughn is currently blocked. If Eloy doesn't get hurt last year Vaughn spends the season in the minors. 

Vaughn has enough versatility to be useful until the first base position opens up.

15 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Vaughn has enough versatility to be useful until the first base position opens up.

The problem is...he kinda doesn't. He's not a great OF, and he's probably a particularly bad RF. He's "not going to murder you there if Eloy gets hurt", but you also don't want to ink his name into the starting spot anywhere other than 1b/DH. And especially since this team is already RH heavy...the fact that he is a righty means he's a guy who might get squeezed out of the lineup just to provide some balance. 

37 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The problem is...he kinda doesn't. He's not a great OF, and he's probably a particularly bad RF. He's "not going to murder you there if Eloy gets hurt", but you also don't want to ink his name into the starting spot anywhere other than 1b/DH. And especially since this team is already RH heavy...the fact that he is a righty means he's a guy who might get squeezed out of the lineup just to provide some balance. 

The injuries this lockout might cause scares me...Vaughn might join TA as the secret backup catcher.

2 hours ago, poppysox said:

Jose in another year will be blocking Vaughn.  Saying goodbye to Abreu would be the easy way to clear out payroll.  JR would hate it but Tampa Bay wouldn't think twice.

 

Only way Jose goes if his production slips substantially or his demands get ridiculous.  I think we need assume Jose is here for another couple years.

39 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Only way Jose goes if his production slips substantially or his demands get ridiculous.  I think we need assume Jose is here for another couple years.

Yeah, but it's time to do one year deals until he doesn't have it anymore. 

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

The problem is...he kinda doesn't. He's not a great OF, and he's probably a particularly bad RF. He's "not going to murder you there if Eloy gets hurt", but you also don't want to ink his name into the starting spot anywhere other than 1b/DH. And especially since this team is already RH heavy...the fact that he is a righty means he's a guy who might get squeezed out of the lineup just to provide some balance. 

This this this. 

Just move him for Ketel Marte already. All of the SP options are rentals or FA. 

3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I thought this when you said it the first time so I'm going to say it - that is an awfully self-serving message for the team to leak. That sounds like exactly how they work with the rest of the Chicago Media - give them some leaks or stories sometimes, so that when they want good press or when they want to make sure that people don't ask any extra questions, the Chicago Media go along with what the team wants and print it to keep their access and stay on their good sides. Didn't two other reporters get the exact same message that day so that it got onto the radio? That has all the characteristics of the team putting out talking points.

Oh...and regarding him "having influence" - want to see something interesting? The "Reinsdorf block" of teams that voted against Manfred included Arizona, Cincinnati, and Los Angeles Angels - 3 of the 4 teams who voted against the last deal on Tuesday (and the 4th team, Detroit, has had an ownership inheritance since then). 

I know all about the Reinsdorf block, his friends and his history. I get the skepticism. I don’t need to fucking clarify my sources for you or anyone else but it’s definitely not a White Sox employee in this instance. Your mind is made up any way though so I don’t really care. 

I have no idea what is going on , this sort of thing doesn't exist over here