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War in Ukraine


caulfield12
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2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

You guys think this gets Finland and Sweden to join NATO? 

I'd be very nervous if I was a Finn right now. 

Sweden came out and basically said it wouldn't. Finland said it'd apply if needed.

But they're also part of the EU, and Article 42.7 says that if they're attacked, the EU comes to its aid. Considering so many EU nations are part of NATO, well, you can do the math.

Russia can't win a conventional war against the EU-NATO, hence Putin's madman threats.

Right now, some good news is China and Switzerland are actually hitting Russia financially, which was a bit unexpected.

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8 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Its breathtaking watching certain politicians and media types who were blaming the US & praising Putin just a few days ago, are now backtracking.

As the Russians are now entering Kyiv itself, one wonders how they can live with themselves. 

Has Trump back-tracked yet?

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3 hours ago, pcq said:

Lauren Witzke, the Delaware GOP's candidate for Senate in 2020, has nothing but praise for Putin and "his Christian nationalist nation": "I identify more with Putin's Christian values than I do with Joe Biden."

 

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Has Trump back-tracked yet?

I mean, it's so fucking obvious. Without making it political, there's one side of the aisle that's all too happy to Putin's lackey and Putin's b****.

It also extends to that same side's media types as well.

 

Within a few generations, they've gone from:

"Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall"

To

"I identify with Putin."

 

We really need a fucking draft in this country.

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4 hours ago, Quin said:

Sweden came out and basically said it wouldn't. Finland said it'd apply if needed.

But they're also part of the EU, and Article 42.7 says that if they're attacked, the EU comes to its aid. Considering so many EU nations are part of NATO, well, you can do the math.

Russia can't win a conventional war against the EU-NATO, hence Putin's madman threats.

Right now, some good news is China and Switzerland are actually hitting Russia financially, which was a bit unexpected.

I was shocked when I saw China put some sanctions on Russia.  That could be huge, if for nothing else but to hurt the "its the west against us" cry.  

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It's interesting that in 2022 a dictator is allowed to dictate, i.e. start a war. Do the Russian people, the zillions who live in Russia really want to blow Ukraine off the map? Do they really want war? How can one man be so powerful? Would the people of Russia rebel against Putin?

I'm sickened by the start of this war. From what I've read and it's dangerous to read stuff it's been suggested Russia's army is not exactly rolling over Ukraine. Could Russia be defeated?

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12 hours ago, turnin' two said:

I was shocked when I saw China put some sanctions on Russia.  That could be huge, if for nothing else but to hurt the "its the west against us" cry.  

China abstained on the UN vote about Ukraine so it is interesting if they are sanctioning Russia. 

From what I've heard, Russia has large cash reserves so sanctions might not affect them much for a year or more.  My concern is with Europe caving when energy prices skyrocket even more.

Prayers for the Ukranian people and to the I'm sure many Russians who never wanted any of this. 

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13 hours ago, greg775 said:

It's interesting that in 2022 a dictator is allowed to dictate, i.e. start a war. Do the Russian people, the zillions who live in Russia really want to blow Ukraine off the map? Do they really want war? How can one man be so powerful? Would the people of Russia rebel against Putin?

I'm sickened by the start of this war. From what I've read and it's dangerous to read stuff it's been suggested Russia's army is not exactly rolling over Ukraine. Could Russia be defeated?

Most of the Russian media is not covering this as a full invasion.  They are covering this as Russian forces helping to liberate the Eastern part of Ukraine and their russian speakers from neo nazi's.  

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24 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

Most of the Russian media is not covering this as a full invasion.  They are covering this as Russian forces helping to liberate the Eastern part of Ukraine and their russian speakers from neo nazi's.  

The best sanction methods remaining now are removal from SWIFT (Germany and Italy just switched opposition), the Russian sovereign wealth fund access (roughly $600 billion) locked out by the ECB, Bank of England and Fed...and a no fly zone which could easily create a hot war with one side or the other accidentally downing an enemy plane.

The biggest point is NATO isn't fracturing, they're actually coming closer and closer to a unified position, even Germany.

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10 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

This will sting. Good. Everyone important is on there so it will be happening.

 

I only hope the good citizens of the world will continue to support freedom for the Ukraine when it starts hurting their pocketbooks. 

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18 hours ago, southsideirish71 said:

Most of the Russian media is not covering this as a full invasion.  They are covering this as Russian forces helping to liberate the Eastern part of Ukraine and their russian speakers from neo nazi's.  

And the best lies have a kernel of truth. 

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36 minutes ago, Texsox said:

And the best lies have a kernel of truth. 

Ukrainian President Zelensky is Jewish. And his grandfather had two siblings, killed by the Nazis. Looking for the grain of truth in this lie leaves me uncomfortable at best.

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18 minutes ago, The Beast said:

What would have to happen for NATO to so coordinated missile strikes on Russian military targets? This is what I was thinking of, even if it isn’t the same conflict at all.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia

NATO will have to grow a pair and accept the risk of a nuclear reply. 

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2 hours ago, The Beast said:

What would have to happen for NATO to so coordinated missile strikes on Russian military targets? This is what I was thinking of, even if it isn’t the same conflict at all.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia

NATO should not do this unless there is an attack by Russian forces on NATO forces somewhere or there is a resolution supporting military action by someone like the UN. Since Russia has a UN Security Council veto, the security council authorizing such military action is unlikely.

NATO should not join in a war against Russia directly without specific cause. NATO should not be the aggressors. If we think this is Bloody, marching to Moscow and conducting regime change there would be monstrous.

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