May 26, 20232 yr 28 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: Jimmy Piersall told me the same thing when I interviewed him. Said Bill was a fraud. Sox historian Rich Lindberg felt the same way about him. ML: I guess this is a good time to ask your thoughts on Bill Veeck. Too many Sox fans he was the Pied Piper for the common fan, he saved the franchise from moving to Seattle in December 1975 but others have suggested that the man the fans saw, was different from the man who tried to run the franchise. Is that a true statement? JP: “I would say so. He was a fraud. He never had any money to run the team with. Harry didn’t like him either. One day he was talking with some people, I happened to be walking past, and I heard him say “(Eric) Soderholm just can’t play third base.” Another person then said, “Yea but who else are you going to be able to get?” That just about sums things up. Talk about fake news, how is not having enough money the equivalent of caring only about money? It’s the opposite, he poured everything he could to keep the team viable in Chicago. Then Veeck tried to get an Italian owner here who would keep the team in Chicago and build championships like he did with the 49ers. Who did the Anti-Italian and Anti-Catholic bigots in the MLB owner and press boxes across America support? Oh yeah, the current owner who worked to flee Chicago a couple years later. Turn to today, and these same bigots in ownership and media are promoting anti Catholic bigot groups that perform lap dances and dry hump crucifixes the game after the Sox leave Los Angeles, and have for decades pimped anti Native American racist s%*# in Atlanta and Cleveland. Bill Veeck gave this ungrateful fraud his last job in television. Reinsdorf promptly fired his ass and he spent his final days talking on radio to a 1 or 2 AM radio share, aired between ads for Heavenly Bodies and other Chicago area strip clubs and blue penis pill ads on The Score.
May 26, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said: Jimmy Piersall told me the same thing when I interviewed him. Said Bill was a fraud. Sox historian Rich Lindberg felt the same way about him. ML: I guess this is a good time to ask your thoughts on Bill Veeck. Too many Sox fans he was the Pied Piper for the common fan, he saved the franchise from moving to Seattle in December 1975 but others have suggested that the man the fans saw, was different from the man who tried to run the franchise. Is that a true statement? JP: “I would say so. He was a fraud. He never had any money to run the team with. Harry didn’t like him either. One day he was talking with some people, I happened to be walking past, and I heard him say “(Eric) Soderholm just can’t play third base.” Another person then said, “Yea but who else are you going to be able to get?” That just about sums things up. Piersall was an overrated blowhard who many times didn't do his homework. He criticized Soderholm for being slow, and he was. But that was due to a knee injury he never completely recovered from. I don't care what Rich Lindberg thinks, Sox historian or not.
May 26, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said: Talk about fake news, how is not having enough money the equivalent of caring only about money? It’s the opposite, he poured everything he could to keep the team viable in Chicago. Then Veeck tried to get an Italian owner here who would keep the team in Chicago and build championships like he did with the 49ers. Who did the Anti-Italian and Anti-Catholic bigots in the MLB owner and press boxes across America support? Oh yeah, the current owner who worked to flee Chicago a couple years later. Turn to today, and these same bigots in ownership and media are promoting anti Catholic bigot groups that perform lap dances and dry hump crucifixes the game after the Sox leave Los Angeles, and have for decades pimped anti Native American racist s%*# in Atlanta and Cleveland. Bill Veeck gave this ungrateful fraud his last job in television. Reinsdorf promptly fired his ass and he spent his final days talking on radio to a 1 or 2 AM radio share, aired between ads for Heavenly Bodies and other Chicago area strip clubs and blue penis pill ads on The Score. The first time Veeck owned the team he traded Callison, Battey, Romano, Cash and Mincher after the 1959 season. Those trades cost the White Sox at least 2 pennants in the 1960s. At the end of his second ownership he tried moving the team to Denver. There weren't too many White Sox fans who were upset when he sold the team after the 1980 season.
May 27, 20232 yr 24 minutes ago, WBWSF said: The first time Veeck owned the team he traded Callison, Battey, Romano, Cash and Mincher after the 1959 season. Those trades cost the White Sox at least 2 pennants in the 1960s. At the end of his second ownership he tried moving the team to Denver. There weren't too many White Sox fans who were upset when he sold the team after the 1980 season. Look, people can have whatever opinions about Veeck they want, but it's inaccurate for Elson, who Veeck spoke highly of through Elson's death. was obsessed about money. He literally saved the Chicago White Sox after 1975, and the only legitimate sales attempts were first to DeBartolo, and after the scumbag AL owners rejected that, to the Brooklyn clique. He received an offer from a Denver oilman in 1979, but never entertained it. https://www.nytimes.com/1979/10/10/archives/veeck-denies-plans-to-sell-white-sox-not-on-the-agenda.html Veeck brought a pennant here in his first season, sold for health reasons a couple years later recovering from the war injuries suffered over three years in the Marines during World War II, including leg amputation and 36 surgeries over the years. Hope everyone who wanted Veeck gone has enjoyed the past 43 seasons of their "High-Class Operation".
May 27, 20232 yr 37 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said: Look, people can have whatever opinions about Veeck they want, but it's inaccurate for Elson, who Veeck spoke highly of through Elson's death. was obsessed about money. He literally saved the Chicago White Sox after 1975, and the only legitimate sales attempts were first to DeBartolo, and after the scumbag AL owners rejected that, to the Brooklyn clique. He received an offer from a Denver oilman in 1979, but never entertained it. https://www.nytimes.com/1979/10/10/archives/veeck-denies-plans-to-sell-white-sox-not-on-the-agenda.html Veeck brought a pennant here in his first season, sold for health reasons a couple years later recovering from the war injuries suffered over three years in the Marines during World War II, including leg amputation and 36 surgeries over the years. Hope everyone who wanted Veeck gone has enjoyed the past 43 seasons of their "High-Class Operation". .... and Rick Hahn still sucks
May 27, 20232 yr Just for fun I found the 2018 draft thread. The board was 100% behind Madrigal. It's in the former sox drawer thread. The board was really upset that Kenny wanted Singer over Nick. @southsider2k5 predicted the future for Nicky as a bust.
May 27, 20232 yr 18 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said: Anyone who spoke with Bill Veeck over the years knows that is a complete an utter lie. Really. It seemed like he cared that baseball was increasingly becoming a money driven sport and realized without lots of money teams would struggle to compete. At least publicly he seemed to care about money and how to be competitive without it. To not care about money would make someone a disaster as an owner in the age of free agency. If "all he cared about is money" is a lie, then he wasn't a very good owner.
May 27, 20232 yr 3 hours ago, pcq said: The only word that matters about Veeck is circus. True, but Veeck’s circus was fun for fans. Jerry’s Circus began when he replaced inherited Roland Hemond with Hawk Harrelson as Jerry’s first executive hire, and continues to this day with crony family friend’s son Rick Hahn in the seat. The Sox went from the Andy The Clown Era to the Pennywise Era under Jerry. Edited May 27, 20232 yr by South Side Hit Men
May 27, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, pcq said: The only word that matters about Veeck is circus. I know this was with the St. Louis Browns and not the White Sox, but a good example of the circus atmosphere under Veeck. August 19, 1951: Eddie Gaedel pinch-hits for St. Louis Browns as smallest batter in baseball!
May 28, 20232 yr Fitting 20 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said: I know this was with the St. Louis Browns and not the White Sox, but a good example of the circus atmosphere under Veeck. August 19, 1951: Eddie Gaedel pinch-hits for St. Louis Browns as smallest batter in baseball! Fitting that this picture is in the fire Hahn thread. It would have been another reason to fire everyone. No plan! This team has become a laughing stock!
May 28, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Texsox said: Fitting Fitting that this picture is in the fire Hahn thread. It would have been another reason to fire everyone. No plan! This team has become a laughing stock! Compare and Contrast: Bill Veeck Eddie Gaedel: Born and Died in Chicago, Illinois. 3 Feet, 7 Inches. Signed August 17, 1951, $0 Signing Bonus, $100 Salary. 1 Game, 1.000 On Base Percentage. Designated for Assignment. Jerry Reinsdorf / Rick Hahn Nick Madrigal: Born in Sacramento, California. 5 Feet 7 Inches. Signed July 3, 2018, $6,411,400 Signing Bonus plus $563,684 Salary. 83 Games, .676 OPS. Traded with Codi Heuer (0.6 bWAR over 25 Appearances with the Cubs) for Craig Kimbrel (0.0 bWAR over 24 Games) White Sox pass on Carlos Rodon Qualifying Offer, Pick up Craig Kimbrel's $16M 2022 Club Option. White Sox trade Craig Kimbrel in desperation for AJ Pollock, $16.5M total salary, 0.4 bWAR, .681 OPS over 139 Games. Bill Veeck turned a red paperclip into a house. Jerry Reinsdorf turned a Winnetka Lakeshore Mansion into a red paperclip.
May 28, 20232 yr Go back and look at the draft projections. Nick was a safe pick at the time. Many considered him the best player in college baseball. Easily one of the top five players in the draft. I'm not debating Bill as an owner. I'm just pointing out that we love everything he did and hate everything the current ownership does.
May 28, 20232 yr Schedule through the All Star Break: H Los Angeles A. L. 28-25, H Detroit 25-26 A New York A. L. 32-23, H Miami 27-26 A Los Angeles N. L. 32-22, A Seattle 27-25 H Texas 33-19, H Boston 28-24 A Los Angeles A. L. (4) 28-25, A Oakland 10-44 H Toronto 28-26, H Saint Louis 24-31 Two certainties. There will be a lot of losses, and Hahn will still be with the team.
May 28, 20232 yr 34 minutes ago, Texsox said: Go back and look at the draft projections. Nick was a safe pick at the time. Many considered him the best player in college baseball. Easily one of the top five players in the draft. I'm not debating Bill as an owner. I'm just pointing out that we love everything he did and hate everything the current ownership does. That encapsulates the entire Hahn approach to everything. He’s no different than you’re co worker who knows nothing drafting a fantasy team. They just draft based on the list. No insight, no instincts, no eye for talent or eye for red flags. Just pick the next guy on the list. The list said Moncada was the guy, get him even though he looked lost in his call up with Boston. Never a thought that maybe the people who make the projections could be wrong.
May 28, 20232 yr 55 minutes ago, Texsox said: Go back and look at the draft projections. Nick was a safe pick at the time. Many considered him the best player in college baseball. Easily one of the top five players in the draft. I'm not debating Bill as an owner. I'm just pointing out that we love everything he did and hate everything the current ownership does. I preferred Bleday over Vaughn and India over Madrigal. I did like the Montgomery selection. At least Madrigal wasn’t a DH like Sheets, Burger, Vaughn, Eloy, Grandal, Encarnacion, et al. Keeping Madrigal at least gets you a player at the minimum salary, same with Dunning. It just exacerbated the issues, spending over $30M for Lynn and Kimbrel/Pollock, instead of $1.4M. Then your hamstrung and can’t sign a solid RF like Conforto, or even a cromulent one like Gallo. Not to mention spending $73M on a guy who couldn’t catch in his 20s for four age 30s seasons perhaps 2-3 more if Hahn resigns him like I suspect he might. Then Hahn compounds it by locking Benintendi for a 5 year backloaded contract, when he isn’t going to give them anything beyond catching baseballs in LF. This is the least valuable position besides 1B/DH. Now they are cycling DHs through RF and even CF to spell Robert. The roster construction has always been completely absurd. Hahn couldn’t finish top half in an open public twelve team Yahoo league.
May 28, 20232 yr On 5/27/2023 at 7:33 AM, Texsox said: Just for fun I found the 2018 draft thread. The board was 100% behind Madrigal. It's in the former sox drawer thread. The board was really upset that Kenny wanted Singer over Nick. @southsider2k5 predicted the future for Nicky as a bust. He also said they wouldn’t need to supplement their core with trades and free agency.
May 29, 20232 yr 4 minutes ago, reiks12 said: So 0 depth, like i said Well, technically, one of the Top 30 prospects in baseball stands behind TA7, Colson Montgomery. He pretty much has to stick at SS, with Burger at 3B.
May 29, 20232 yr I'm sure that Rick will remind us of this tomorrow. But in the chance that he doesn't, let's all remember that no one feels worse about this situation than Rick Hahn.
May 29, 20232 yr 3 minutes ago, GreenSox said: I'm sure that Rick will remind us of this tomorrow. But in the chance that he doesn't, let's all remember that no one feels worse about this situation than Rick Hahn. Last year, he even slammed his hand down on a metal filing cabinet in the front office...almost a fit of rage approximating KW's infamous flipped over post-game buffet table incident. They're better off promoting the return of Hendriks, Trout and Ohtani. In fact, he will likely tease that they will make a run at Shohei at the trade deadline or in Free Agency since he has pretty much nothing but Luis Robert and Middleton/Santos to hang his hat on. Burger, too, I suppose. The irony there is Burger went out of his way to get at-bats in independent ball because of the Covid situation...at that point, the White Sox had pretty much written him off as a sunk cost. Burger made it all the way back DESPITE the organization rather than because of them, almost. Edited May 29, 20232 yr by caulfield12
May 29, 20232 yr We've seen way too many series against bad to mediocre teams like that during the last two years. Many chances to win, a pitch made here, a play there, a good AB -- but just not made. It reminds me a bit of a conversation on Big Soccer about if Leeds United would go down. Some were arguing "well all they need is to win a game or two here over the last month they've had so many chances and some of it just bad luck they aren't this bad". Well, turns out they are, and so are the Sox. This isn't just bad luck or a play not being made once and awhile -- it's consistent bad play, consistent failure in big moments -- because the team is no bueno.
May 29, 20232 yr 21 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: We've seen way too many series against bad to mediocre teams like that during the last two years. Many chances to win, a pitch made here, a play there, a good AB -- but just not made. It reminds me a bit of a conversation on Big Soccer about if Leeds United would go down. Some were arguing "well all they need is to win a game or two here over the last month they've had so many chances and some of it just bad luck they aren't this bad". Well, turns out they are, and so are the Sox. This isn't just bad luck or a play not being made once and awhile -- it's consistent bad play, consistent failure in big moments -- because the team is no bueno. It's almost like TA7 has come to represent this team. Certainly the most polarizing story this month with TLR gone for good. Hot dog/showoff/uppity (to use 1950's dog whistle terms). Modern day Jackie Robinson, Field of Dreams Walkoff, Dairy Queen (mainstream/Heartland) advertisers embracing him and MLB video game covers even. Arguably one of the two franchise position players, along with Luis Robert, coming into 2023. "Well, he's too talented to be almost consistently making all these key defensive miscues and hitting so poorly for both power and with RISP. He'll come around at some point." HAWK: "Just look at the back of his baseball card." TIGERS' announcing crew, a week ago: "Tim Anderson just isn't a very good shortstop." LOGIC: "Something doesn't compute for 2022-23 after he was one of the five best (average) hitters in baseball from 2018-2021. Not to mention, almost nobody in the clubhouse even seemed excited he was named to the All-Star team. That's a very telling sign. And Jose Abreu couldn't get out of town fast enough." Edited May 29, 20232 yr by caulfield12
May 29, 20232 yr 5 hours ago, Texsox said: Go back and look at the draft projections. Nick was a safe pick at the time. Many considered him the best player in college baseball. Easily one of the top five players in the draft. I'm not debating Bill as an owner. I'm just pointing out that we love everything he did and hate everything the current ownership does. A cub fan friend of mine and I were talking about him this weekend and he said, the guy does nothing good.....absolutely nothing. His OSU team was so stacked his flaws were obviously hidden with that and the aluminum bat.
May 29, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, caulfield12 said: It's almost like TA7 has come to represent this team. Certainly the most polarizing story this month with TLR gone for good. Hot dog/showoff/uppity (to use 1950's dog whistle terms). Modern day Jackie Robinson, Field of Dreams Walkoff, Dairy Queen (mainstream/Heartland) advertisers embracing him and MLB video game covers even. Arguably one of the two franchise position players, along with Luis Robert, coming into 2023. "Well, he's too talented to be almost consistently making all these key defensive miscues and hitting so poorly for both power and with RISP. He'll come around at some point." HAWK: "Just look at the back of his baseball card." TIGERS' announcing crew, a week ago: "Tim Anderson just isn't a very good shortstop." LOGIC: "Something doesn't compute for 2022-23 after he was one of the five best (average) hitters in baseball from 2018-2021. Not to mention, almost nobody in the clubhouse even seemed excited he was named to the All-Star team. That's a very telling sign. And Jose Abreu couldn't get out of town fast enough." It was the Guardians announcing team
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