17 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

The coaching staff, and the fact that pretty much all their best players were either hurt, bad or both. That might matter too, idk. 

This, 100% is where I was getting at. 

As I was saying each and every night on every game thread while everyone was being so distracted with their massive hard-on hate for LaRussa and the coaches.   It mostly lies on the players.   It's as simple as shown here by this ESPN piece where a manager swap does nothing for the expectations.  In fact they are considered one step lower than where they finished.  

11 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

The crazy thing is that the Astros road OPS was 22 points better than their home OPS in 2017. Either they were cheating on the road too, or it didn't help all that much. Eight of the ten 2017 playoff teams were 24 or more points better at home than on the road though.

I assume they cheated away too. 

To be honest, they need changes but I don't think they need to make whole sale changes.  It's somewhere in the middle.  A retool that is a notch below the 2005 one.  I really do think this new coaching staff can do a lot to help guys like Moncada, Vaughn, and even Grandal.  Get a starting pitcher, a left handed corner outfielder (Conforto would be excellent), and new 2nd Baseman.  

On 11/7/2022 at 12:19 PM, MEANS said:

See I think Vaughn has the potential to be really good, which by mid season could be an upgrade. He's been playing out of position for too long.

Vaughn has played first and did not ace the audition. However Gavin's dad will be hitting him grounders this winter so his ceiling is significant. His streaky hitting is also somewhat of an issue as well as second-half fatigue. People have pondered his conditioning. Yet he is one of the Sox go-to guys it seems. I like Vaughn but let's not talk him into being an MVP.

4 minutes ago, pcq said:

Vaughn has played first and did not ace the audition. However Gavin's dad will be hitting him grounders this winter so his ceiling is significant. His streaky hitting is also somewhat of an issue as well as second-half fatigue. People have pondered his conditioning. Yet he is one of the Sox go-to guys it seems. I like Vaughn but let's not talk him into being an MVP.

22 games at first isn’t exactly what I would call a large sample size.

7 minutes ago, pcq said:

Vaughn has played first and did not ace the audition. However Gavin's dad will be hitting him grounders this winter so his ceiling is significant. His streaky hitting is also somewhat of an issue as well as second-half fatigue. People have pondered his conditioning. Yet he is one of the Sox go-to guys it seems. I like Vaughn but let's not talk him into being an MVP.

I think his second half fatigue has a lot to do with him playing out of position.

18 minutes ago, Colome's Hat said:

I think his second half fatigue has a lot to do with him playing out of position.

I 100% agree and see it.

3 hours ago, SoxBlanco said:

Zero chance it’s Pederson over those 4 guys. His defense is terrible. 

Zero chance it's Nimmo too given what Diaz just got from the Mets.

My feeling is Jerry might increase the payroll as this window begins to close. How about Benintendi at $14M and Rodon at $20M?

That would give us a payroll of about $207M, keeping Mendick and Sosa/Gonzalez for 2B, with Colas replacing Sheets in May. I know Rodon is very unrealistic, but it seems like we could swing that financially.

We would ultimately have Robert, Benintendi, Colas and Pollack for primary OF's, giving us much better defense.

Anyway you cut it, though - any real improvement has to come from Grandal and Moncada

1 minute ago, bear_brian said:

My feeling is Jerry might increase the payroll as this window begins to close. How about Benintendi at $14M and Rodon at $20M?

That would give us a payroll of about $207M, keeping Mendick and Sosa/Gonzalez for 2B, with Colas replacing Sheets in May. I know Rodon is very unrealistic, but it seems like we could swing that financially.

We would ultimately have Robert, Benintendi, Colas and Pollack for primary OF's, giving us much better defense.

Anyway you cut it, though - any real improvement has to come from Grandal and Moncada

Hahn already implied that it won’t.

11 minutes ago, bear_brian said:

My feeling is Jerry might increase the payroll as this window begins to close. How about Benintendi at $14M and Rodon at $20M?

That would give us a payroll of about $207M, keeping Mendick and Sosa/Gonzalez for 2B, with Colas replacing Sheets in May. I know Rodon is very unrealistic, but it seems like we could swing that financially.

We would ultimately have Robert, Benintendi, Colas and Pollack for primary OF's, giving us much better defense.

Anyway you cut it, though - any real improvement has to come from Grandal and Moncada

The early estimates that Heyman published last week have:
Benintendi at 4/$56, so $14 million is accurate there.

Rodon at 5/$150, so that is a substantial underestimate. 

For anyone hoping Wong would hit the open market.

32 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Hahn already implied that it won’t.

As did Jesse Rogers

 

 

3 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Note: he (along with others) conveniently forgot how to hit after the Astros sign stealing scandal.

Always convinced most teams were doing it.

After Bellinger messed his shoulder up during the 2020 playoffs on that HR celebration he's never been the same. 

1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Hahn already implied that it won’t.

I'm just hoping they stay at around the $190 million range. Because there's still some room to sign some FAs if that's the case. 

3 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Note: he (along with others) conveniently forgot how to hit after the Astros sign stealing scandal.

Always convinced most teams were doing it.

Yelich forgot too. Darvish actually accused Yelich and the Brewers of stealing signs before the Astros scandal went public. 

On 11/5/2022 at 8:48 AM, Chicago White Sox said:

While there is some merit to each of these points, it’s not as dire of a situation as you’re presenting.  Here’s what needs to happen this offseason to make the Sox a playoff team in 2023:

1. Hire a manager who will demand a strong effort every day and who will not adhere to outdated, old-school baseball tendencies - COMPLETE
2. Hire a hitting coach who will install a hitting philosophy centered around power & OBP and not just contact - COMPLETE
3. Continue to modernize the training and strength & conditions staffs - SOUNDS LIKE THERE ARE PLANS FOR THIS BASED ON WHAT HAHN WAS WHISPERING TO GRIFOL DURING PRESS CONFERENCE
4. Develop & execute off-seasoning training plans for all players - CAN ACTUALLY HAPPEN NOW WITHOUT LOCKOUT & WILL HAPPEN PER GRIFOL
5. Stop playing 1B/DH types in the OF - HAHN CONFIRMED WILL HAPPEN
6. Improve the lineup’s balance with LH hitters who can hit quality RHP - TBD
7. Add a legit SP to the major rotation and find some pitching depth for AAA - TBD

Of the seven off-season priorities, two are complete and three more appear to be happening.  For the first time in forever, I actually feel like what’s needed to get the most out of this existing roster will be in place.  The big questions are will Jerry spend the money to fill our remaining holes with quality options and is Hahn actually capable of identifying & procuring the right talent.  Both of those remain to the he seen and are reasons for pessimism given their track records. But that being said, I think we’re going to see much better performance out of the guys we already have.  The negative impact that Tony had on our team last year can not be understated.

This sounds nice, but it is a fantasy.   The Sox had 1 hitter -- ONE -- Jose Abreu -- who was above average and showed up the whole year. And he's gone.  

Most of the key players are injury prone, can't field, and can't hit right handed pitching. Coaching cannot fix that. 

Of the offensive core -- Robert, Anderson, Moncada, Jimenez, Grandal, Vaughn -- only Andrew Vaughn made it to 500 ABs.  Grandal hit the same as Adam Engel and worse than Adam Hasely.  Moncada had a .273 OBP and a .353 slugging percentage. They are the second and third highest paid players on the team (behind Lynn), costing more than $35 million between then, and Moncada is due to earn almost $25M himself in 2024.

The only good hitter on the team is Jimenez (with Abreu gone). He played 55 games last year, and 84 this year.  Luis Robert, the superstar, has played 68 and 98 games the last 2 years.  He barely exceeded league average as a hitter this year. 

You are looking at what these players were in the short season of 2020 and thinking they can magically return there. They cannot. 

The Sox would be better off dumping the lot of them and starting over, while they still have trade value.  

Edited November 8, 20223 yr by VAfan

1 hour ago, maloney.adam said:

 

Even if they went out and signed an OF to cover the corner spot, would anyone really have confidence in Cespedes as a starter for 60 or 70 games counting injuries? 

 

 

4 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

 

 

The extra $8mill to spend is big.

6 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

 

 

Was this expected?

 

5 minutes ago, fathom said:

Was this expected?

First time I can recall anyone reporting it.