Didn't read all the posts, but the only speculation regarding Aaron Judge and the Sox that makes sense is speculating on how many homers he hits against them next year so I'm just gonna assume that's what all these posts are about.

3 hours ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

That's NOT what I'm saying...over and over again I have said that when they have a contention window for a number of years they have a top ten payroll.  For forty years we have seen this pattern.  You want to b**** about poor evaluation of major league talent or poor drafting...fine.  But to whimper about the Sox not spending money is demonstrably wrong.  

Top ten payrolls in half of the last 16 years...2022, 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010, 2008, 2007, 2006 and by the way I suspect never in the top ten of attendance or tv revenues.  

 

A $180M payroll would have ranked 10th last year…

1 hour ago, T R U said:

Wasn’t it already, pretty much, proven they made a really bad offer to Machado and didn’t even offer for Harper?

They made an ok offer to Machado if they were the only team in the mix. They basically pretended to be interested in Harper and just handed him over to the Phillies despite his star power and desire to play in Chicago.

I will say that if Jerry was serious about winning a World Series before he leaves this world, he’d go out and sign Aaron Judge.  I agree that would be the move to instantly make us World Series threats.  It would also rejuvenate the fan-base and create a new generation of lifelong Sox fans.  I can’t stress how game-changing such a move would be.

And zero reason we couldn’t afford him.  The Disney money would cover the bulk of his salary this year and we have plenty of payroll coming off the books starting 2024.  Any competent organization could make this work, but it would require taking on some risk and that ain’t happening.  Safe & steady is how Uncle Jerry prefers to play it, so we’ll be stocking up on reclamation projects and trading from both the major league roster & farm to fill our needs.  I dream of the day George Lucas and his wife buy the Sox and we finally act the like the big market behemoth we always should have been.

1 hour ago, Sleepy Harold said:

Let's get this thread back on track with some more sandwich talk. 

18 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Saving the day from all of that poop.

2 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Didn't read all the posts, but the only speculation regarding Aaron Judge and the Sox that makes sense is speculating on how many homers he hits against them next year so I'm just gonna assume that's what all these posts are about.

Most of the posts have been sandwich related!

I speculate he's not signing here.

2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I speculate he's not signing here.

You must be an insider.

6 hours ago, Sarava said:

Are you Jerry on a burner account? 2 big free agent splashes in 42 years as owner, and the last one was 26 years ago. And none in this big rebuild contention window, which is pretty much agreed by most to be over the hump on its way down now.

We all love our White Sox. But we have a cheapskate owner who has proven that for 4+ decades. It is what it is.

I would put the blame on the GM's who constructed the line-up with a payroll that justified a better record. Sox have never been at the bottom of the league in payroll with nothing except 2005 to show for it.  Look what Cleveland, KC, and Oakland have done with their owners money which was far less than JR gave his GM's.

 

Obviously I wouldn’t complain if the Sox signed Judge, but I have a feeling that whoever signs him will regret it fairly quickly. I just don’t think he’ll live up to the contract he’ll get from some team.

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

A $180M payroll would have ranked 10th last year…

White Sox active players payroll in 2022 was 212M

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/chicago-white-sox/payroll/2022/

3 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

White Sox active players payroll in 2022 was 212M

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/chicago-white-sox/payroll/2022/

That is including:

1. All of the money spent on signing international players and drafted players, which most people do not count as part of the big league payroll.
2. AJ Pollock's $5 million buyout, which may or may not be reasonable to bookkeep on 2022 because it wasn't paid until November.
3. $3 million of AJ Pollock's signing bonus, which if the White Sox actually had to pay it makes the deal for him look way worse (would total 1 year, $19.5 million).

6 hours ago, Sarava said:

Wait - in every decade they've had a top payroll once out of those 10 years? Are you even serious here? Do you understand Chicago is a big market? They should have a top 5 payroll more often than not. And they should be in the top 10 every year.

Spending in the top 5 is not the answer, how long has it been since the Yankee's won, or  the Dodgers before their recent WS?  Choosing and developing players is the answer, with a mixture of one or two big name free agents.  The Cubs had the formula unfortunately their Lester/Ross turned out to be our Keuchel/Grandal which is where the difference was.

6 hours ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

That's NOT what I'm saying...over and over again I have said that when they have a contention window for a number of years they have a top ten payroll.  For forty years we have seen this pattern.  You want to b**** about poor evaluation of major league talent or poor drafting...fine.  But to whimper about the Sox not spending money is demonstrably wrong.  

Top ten payrolls in half of the last 16 years...2022, 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010, 2008, 2007, 2006 and by the way I suspect never in the top ten of attendance or tv revenues.  

 

Call me JR's burner account if you must, but I couldn't agree more on the attendance and TV revenue streams other teams like the Cubs, Yankees, and Dodgers have that the Sox don't.  To be in the top 10 with a fanbase that doesn't attend games or have their own TV network is pretty good in my book.  Other teams do better with less, which is why we need to look at the GM.  Of course the GM is chosen by JR so that's probably the biggest reason for our lack of success.

The fact of the matter is the White Sox have only the White Sox to blame for their small market status. There are plenty of people, hopefully the next owner, who would have operated the White sox as a large market franchise, and would have been rewarded as their fanbase would have shown up. But they don't show up because the White Sox front office has a history of not showing up. 

The White Sox idea of "being all in" is signing Adam Dunn. 

53 minutes ago, Chimpton said:

Most of the posts have been sandwich related!

As they fucking should be.

8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The fact of the matter is the White Sox have only the White Sox to blame for their small market status. There are plenty of people, hopefully the next owner, who would have operated the White sox as a large market franchise, and would have been rewarded as their fanbase would have shown up. But they don't show up because the White Sox front office has a history of not showing up. 

The White Sox idea of "being all in" is signing Adam Dunn. 

I agree, the one thing I've always said is the Sox fanbase has a  "show me" mentality as opposed to our North side team  fans who attend games for the "Wrigley experience".  There's nothing wrong with asking the Sox to "prove it", I just wish our front office would make wiser decisions to get us there.  I remember the crowds we attracted in 2006 after winning the WS and had they sustained that success or close to it we wouldn't be talking about attendance.

I try to forget the "all in" Adam Dunn, Ken Griffey JR signings.

12 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

Call me JR's burner account if you must, but I couldn't agree more on the attendance and TV revenue streams other teams like the Cubs, Yankees, and Dodgers have that the Sox don't.  To be in the top 10 with a fanbase that doesn't attend games or have their own TV network is pretty good in my book.  Other teams do better with less, which is why we need to look at the GM.  Of course the GM is chosen by JR so that's probably the biggest reason for our lack of success.

Why does the fanbase not attend games though? 

When the Philadelphia Phillies opened their new ballpark, their attendance jumped, but they won high 80s numbers of games the next 3 years. Then, they went on a streak of 5 straight playoff appearances, which basically sold out their stadium every day for years. Their payroll reached the 2nd highest in baseball.

Then, they had to rebuild, They dropped to a low of 63 wins, and attendance literally dropped in half. Their payroll dropped to a low below $85 million for a couple years.

Then, they signed Bryce Harper as their team improved to .500, and attendance per game shot up by 7000 fans per game, while their record was basically unchanged.

Then last year, they spent money again, had a much higher payroll than the White Sox, and made a world series run.

What's different from the White Sox? the 5 straight playoff appearances, the willingness to sign a Bryce Harper and immediately get rewarded by ticket sales, and the willingness to go the Dombrowski route to winning that involves understanding some of their signings won't work but if they produce a playoff run - $$$$ Profit.

Is there some reason the White Sox cannot do this? Is their market dramatically smaller than that of the Phillies? 

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Why does the fanbase not attend games though? 

When the Philadelphia Phillies opened their new ballpark, their attendance jumped, but they won high 80s numbers of games the next 3 years. Then, they went on a streak of 5 straight playoff appearances, which basically sold out their stadium every day for years. Their payroll reached the 2nd highest in baseball.

Then, they had to rebuild, They dropped to a low of 63 wins, and attendance literally dropped in half. Their payroll dropped to a low below $85 million for a couple years.

Then, they signed Bryce Harper as their team improved to .500, and attendance per game shot up by 7000 fans per game, while their record was basically unchanged.

Then last year, they spent money again, had a much higher payroll than the White Sox, and made a world series run.

What's different from the White Sox? the 5 straight playoff appearances, the willingness to sign a Bryce Harper and immediately get rewarded by ticket sales, and the willingness to go the Dombrowski route to winning that involves understanding some of their signings won't work but if they produce a playoff run - $$$$ Profit.

Is there some reason the White Sox cannot do this? Is their market dramatically smaller than that of the Phillies? 

BINGO, no reason that I can think of.   I believe I said not signing Machado or Harper was the reason the Sox rebuild took a turn for the worse.

Hell I bought into their rebuild (20 game plan, that I didn't renew this year) in 2019 when Machado and Harper were just rumored to be targets of the Sox.  Silly me, fooled by JR and company again since I last bought the 13 game plan in 2006. Exactly what happened with the attendance spike in Philly would have happened here and we wouldn't have to trot out DH/1B to cover right field.  If the front office would just "Show Me" by signing a top free agent for once, White Sox fans  hungry for a winner will respond and the place would be filled.

3 hours ago, A-Train to 35th said:

BINGO, no reason that I can think of.   I believe I said not signing Machado or Harper was the reason the Sox rebuild took a turn for the worse.

Hell I bought into their rebuild (20 game plan, that I didn't renew this year) in 2019 when Machado and Harper were just rumored to be targets of the Sox.  Silly me, fooled by JR and company again since I last bought the 13 game plan in 2006. Exactly what happened with the attendance spike in Philly would have happened here and we wouldn't have to trot out DH/1B to cover right field.  If the front office would just "Show Me" by signing a top free agent for once, White Sox fans  hungry for a winner will respond and the place would be filled.

"You can't spend a dollar if you only have 50 cents." - Kenny Williams ?

2 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

"You can't spend a dollar if you only have 50 cents." - Kenny Williams ?

What? Where will be play?

18 hours ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Soxtalk has gotten so cringy.  Every single post/poster seems to hate everything about the team.  There are no optimism threads and any thread of interesting speculation is soon buried under an avalanche of “funny” hate.   A troll on Soxtalk is someone that says something positive…but here goes…trolling.  As I have pointed out frequently…in the 80’s, 90’s and 00’s when Sox were in a competitive window they were top five payroll.  JR does not spend heavily in times of non-contention…which as a businessman makes sense.  We are now clearly in a window of contention (yes last year was painful…look at Phillies of 2020/21).  We spent $215 on payroll last year and top 5 was $240.  This idea that we will only spend $180 is pretty much the same nonsense from a couple of years ago when we would never spend over $150. We have Keuchel $18.5 mill and Abreu $17 mill dropping off our books….they could basically take that money and sign Aaron Judge.  Despite the reality that we have not signed any big fish it is clear that they were trying to land big fish with serious offers to Machado and Wheeler.  Spotrac has us with $145 committed for 2023.  So why not Aaron Judge?  He’s got a career .980 OPS.  He’s been a plus defender for most of his career.  He’s an outfielder which is clearly our biggest need.  He can even play a serviceable CF in a pinch ( as can Colas).  An outfield of Judge/Colas/Robert could be elite offensively and defensively.  It’s a single move that can restore faith, sell tickets and give JR a chance for that last ring.  We have the budget, he fits a need lets blow up the world.         

Well said as usual.

12 hours ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Yes but the point, it seems to me, of being part of a fan chat site is to have fun with it.  If Hi8is starts a topic "Aaron Judge speculation" I thought...oh that's a fun concept to chew over...and then the first 20 post are SOX SUCK... SOX DON'T SPEND MONEY...this will never happen.  What an idiot for even suggesting it.  There was zero fun out of the first 20 posts.  I'm fully on board with you that It is much riskier to sign Judge today than Harper four years ago because of the ages.  But I think this team is in a perfect position now to hit it hard and 2019 they were half a dozen parts away.  And again...2022 Abreu+Keuchel = 2023 Judge.   

I agree with you that JR will "hit it hard" this off season.  I'm not one to like these mega contracts but rather sign 2 or 3 players for that same money that the one guy sucks up.  Spread the risk a bit.  Mostly I hate all the JR is cheap chatter that creeps into each and every topic.  Max Kepler, Madrigal, Bellinger, Clevenger, and Q would make a nice offseason IMO.  Don't get me wrong, I would be thrilled with Judge, but he scares me a lot.

8 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

The White Sox idea of "being all in" is signing Adam Dunn. 

Just hours from the anniversary 

Edited December 3, 20223 yr by Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm
formatting is hard.