8 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

To me, trading Hendriks is also about "staying ahead of the curve."  I wouldn't trade him for short-term help (Hendriks is short term help).  I'd trade him for long-term help, but which also helps this year......like working a 3-way for one of those D Back outfielders.    
The Sox haven't drafted and developed a good outfielder since Rowand; on the other hand, they've done a decent job nabbing ML ready outfielders from other teams (specifically, the D Backs).
 

Correct. Which is what a team like the Sox has to do. You can’t count on mediocre drafting, poor player development, and consensus FA evaluation to win you a championship.

2 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

DVS of the Sun-Times today had a story that basically said second base will be filled by "internal" options.

“And the Sox find another way”

-Hawk Harrelson

Rick Hahn Primary 2B bWAR 

• 2013 Beckham 0.7
• 2014 Beckham 0.7
• 2015 Sanchez 0.1
• 2016 Lawrie 1.2
• 2017 Sanchez 3.4
• 2018 Moncada 1.4
• 2019 Sanchez 1.4
• 2020 Madrigal 0.5
• 2021 Hernandez -0.7
• 2022 Harrison 1.6
• 2023 Gonzalez 0.8  (ProJ fWAR)

Average: 1.0

2 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

DVS of the Sun-Times today had a story that basically said second base will be filled by "internal" options.

And we can’t possibly trade Hendricks because the Sox are trying to win this year lol

On 12/22/2022 at 10:29 AM, TheFutureIsNear said:

Looking at his #’s I’m assuming not, but any chance Aaron Hicks could still be a decent 4th OF’er? Was thinking something like this:

Liam and Grandal for Gleyber, Hicks, $12M (makes the Hicks commitment same as $18M for Grandal), and a Yankees SP prospect like Clayton Beeter, Will Warren or Randy Vasquez.

 

Obviously would leave us needing to find decent C, but the $ would be there to do so

A Liam trade to the Yankees involving Gleybar didnt get a lot of play in this thread so far. O dowd made the intial suggestion and it included Crochet.

Yankees do need a closer and have a nice amount of depth in the middle infield. They would also be selling the highly inconsistent Torres on a high note.

The Yankess obviously have pieces they rather move 1st and a hole in LF. I doubt they still want Donaldson or Aaron Hicks, But they've also had recent good news involving LeMahieu's toe so that would solve some issues at 3rd base.

Maybe the Yankees move Gleybar in a deal for someone like Reynolds. Or they move some of the prospects like Volpe, Peraza or Cabrera. SS is also a trouble spot for the Yankees so when you look at 2nd and SS for them it's tough to predict what they do.

I think it's an interesting trade idea,Hendriks for Torres . Not sure of any other pieces but they both have 2 years left and Sox might save some money if it's straight up .

I could handle Torres being RH since his D has improved and he hits for power . At least we then know all of our starting position players. Any trades from that point to fill BP and 4th OF could be minor trades or combo of trade with FA signing.

I am not interested in making a fair comparison trade for Liam.  He plays an important role on our team.  He is not easily expendable at all.  If we trade him at all...it only makes sense if the acquiring team overpays for his services.

6 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I am not interested in making a fair comparison trade for Liam.  He plays an important role on our team.  He is not easily expendable at all.  If we trade him at all...it only makes sense if the acquiring team overpays for his services.

The more money I see free agent relievers sign for, the more I can see a team wildly overpaying.

In that scenario, I'm totally fine with it.

5 minutes ago, Quin said:

The more money I see free agent relievers sign for, the more I can see a team wildly overpaying.

In that scenario, I'm totally fine with it.

Yep!

1 hour ago, Quin said:

The more money I see free agent relievers sign for, the more I can see a team wildly overpaying.

In that scenario, I'm totally fine with it.

If a team is truly wildly overpaying for a closer I’d imagine the Guardians would get in on that action.

57 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I am not interested in making a fair comparison trade for Liam.  He plays an important role on our team.  He is not easily expendable at all.  If we trade him at all...it only makes sense if the acquiring team overpays for his services.

I said this much earlier however. The ex GM who suggested the trade seemed to think Liam and Crochet was fair. Since that time we've seen the price of relievers go higher which in turn makes Liam worth more .

I don't know if the Yankees would throw in another arm along with Torres but Gleybar Torres is a fine player and more production is needed from the everyday lineup to remove high leverage innings from the pen and give them a cushion to work with. The addition of Benintendi and Torres put 2 more solid bats in the lineup and we've would've been better last year with more consistent and healthy bats. I'm good waiting to see how things shake out with the Yankees and Dodgers and our own "will he or won't he spend more mystery". A difference maker at 2nd base isn't cheap.

It's funny people remember how good Liam was on a .500 team but never seem to bring up that the Sox scored 3 runs or less in around half their games and lost Abreu. This team needs more power and there are plenty of people here who think it's not likely to come from Grandal, Moncada or Benintendi and have their doubts about Colas too. It also leaves Anderson and Vaughn who aren't yet  20 HR guys. That leaves the 2 most often injured guys on our team to produce power Eloy and Robert.

13 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I said this much earlier however. The ex GM who suggested the trade seemed to think Liam and Crochet was fair. Since that time we've seen the price of relievers go higher which in turn makes Liam worth more .

I don't know if the Yankees would throw in another arm along with Torres but Gleybar Torres is a fine player and more production is needed from the everyday lineup to remove high leverage innings from the pen and give them a cushion to work with. The addition of Benintendi and Torres put 2 more solid bats in the lineup and we've would've been better last year with more consistent and healthy bats. I'm good waiting to see how things shake out with the Yankees and Dodgers and our own "will he or won't he spend more mystery". A difference maker at 2nd base isn't cheap.

It's funny people remember how good Liam was on a .500 team but never seem to bring up that the Sox scored 3 runs or less in around half their games and lost Abreu. This team needs more power and there are plenty of people here who think it's not likely to come from Grandal, Moncada or Benintendi and have their doubts about Colas too. It also leaves Anderson and Vaughn who aren't yet  20 HR guys. That leaves the 2 most often injured guys on our team to produce power Eloy and Robert.

Let’s make a bet on Vaughn. I take the over on 20 homers… you take the under. Twenty even is a wash.

You suggest the terms brother.

17 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Let’s make a bet on Vaughn. I take the over on 20 homers… you take the under. Twenty even is a wash.

You suggest the terms brother.

I'm not predicting who hits how many HR's I'm just saying we need more power from the whole lineup. The more the merrier but I'm not going to count on Anderson, Benintendi , Moncada and Grandal to all hit 15 each.

I'd like to count on Eloy for 30+ and 25 each from Robert and Vaughn but 2 of those 3 are injured often.

Another 20 from Torres would be very helpful to offset any lack of power from any of those guys in my 15 Hr group.

Also Tim hit 20 HR's once so I made a mistake to say Tim had never hit 20.

Edited December 25, 20223 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

27 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I said this much earlier however. The ex GM who suggested the trade seemed to think Liam and Crochet was fair. Since that time we've seen the price of relievers go higher which in turn makes Liam worth more .

I don't know if the Yankees would throw in another arm along with Torres but Gleybar Torres is a fine player and more production is needed from the everyday lineup to remove high leverage innings from the pen and give them a cushion to work with. The addition of Benintendi and Torres put 2 more solid bats in the lineup and we've would've been better last year with more consistent and healthy bats. I'm good waiting to see how things shake out with the Yankees and Dodgers and our own "will he or won't he spend more mystery". A difference maker at 2nd base isn't cheap.

It's funny people remember how good Liam was on a .500 team but never seem to bring up that the Sox scored 3 runs or less in around half their games and lost Abreu. This team needs more power and there are plenty of people here who think it's not likely to come from Grandal, Moncada or Benintendi and have their doubts about Colas too. It also leaves Anderson and Vaughn who aren't yet  20 HR guys. That leaves the 2 most often injured guys on our team to produce power Eloy and Robert.

If I remember correctly, Gleybar was traded to the Yankees for a few months rental of a top reliever.  Now our top reliever needs to be accompanied by a second piece to be attractive to the Yankees.  Seems like some folks have a way of undervaluing our players while overlooking the flaws in players from the other organization.

9 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I'm not predicting who hits how many HR's I'm just saying we need more power from the whole lineup. The more the merrier but I'm not going to count on Anderson, Benintendi , Moncada and Grandal to all hit 15 each.

I'd like to count on Eloy for 30+ and 25 each from Robert and Vaughn but 2 of those 3 are injured often.

Another 20 from Torres would be very helpful to offset any lack of power from any of those guys in my 15 Hr group.

Also Tim hit 20 HR's once so I made a mistake to say Tim had never hit 20.

Yea man I hear ya but I just wanted to make a bet. ?

6 minutes ago, poppysox said:

If I remember correctly, Gleybar was traded to the Yankees for a few months rental of a top reliever.  Now our top reliever needs to be accompanied by a second piece to be attractive to the Yankees.  Seems like some folks have a way of undervaluing our players while overlooking the flaws in players from the other organization.

I didnt say Hendriks needed to be traded with Crochet. I said that's what was suggested by and ex GM and it may be more even now or that the Yankees could throw in an arm. I have no idea what would be involved actually so if anything I am saying Hendricks is worth a guy who had 4.1 bWAR last year which would've been barely behind ABreu's team leading 4.2 bWar.

Fangraphs gave Abreu a 3.9 and Torres a 2.7 so big difference in the War numbers between Fangraphs and Baseball Reference on Torres WAR total but even at 2.7 he still would've been 2nd on the Sox.

14 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Yea man I hear ya but I just wanted to make a bet. ?

Ha ok can we make it 22 HR's for Vaughn ? I'd feel better betting on a higher number just so we can both say we expect Vaughn to hit at least 5 more HR's than last year. You win if he hits 23. Gentleman's bet unless we can figure out any terms at a later date.

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I didnt say Hendriks needed to be traded with Crochet. I said that's what was suggested by and ex GM and it may be more even now or that the Yankees could throw in an arm. I have no idea what would be involved actually so if anything I am saying Hendricks is worth a guy who had 4.1 bWAR last year which would've been barely behind ABreu's team leading 4.2 bWar.

Fangraphs gave Abreu a 3.9 and Torres a 2.7 so big difference in the War numbers between Fangraphs and Baseball Reference on Torres WAR total but even at 2.7 he still would've been 2nd on the Sox.

My apologies.  It sounded like you were endorsing the idea promoted by that ex-GM.

2 hours ago, Quin said:

The more money I see free agent relievers sign for, the more I can see a team wildly overpaying.

In that scenario, I'm totally fine with it.

I would do it just for even prospect value. The Sox aren’t getting a second baseman, they aren’t serious about the season anyway 

5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Ha ok can we make it 22 HR's for Vaughn ? I'd feel better betting on a higher number just so we can both say we expect Vaughn to hit at least 5 more HR's than last year. You win if he hits 23. Gentleman's bet unless we can figure out any terms at a later date.

I’m in. Winner hosts a playoff game.

9 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

I would do it just for even prospect value. The Sox aren’t getting a second baseman, they aren’t serious about the season anyway 

Lots of offseason still to go.  Much more fun if you keep your optimism at a high level.  When and if ST is over and the holes haven't been addressed...then you can really let off steam.?

15 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

I would do it just for even prospect value. The Sox aren’t getting a second baseman, they aren’t serious about the season anyway 

I probably would too but that might be even harder to figure out but not for the reasons you gave.

I wouldn't consider a move for prospects to be a sign of cost cutting. The Sox need quality prospects preferable a couple that have already advanced to  AA or AAA that can be used as trade fodder for 2023 now or at the trade deadline or held onto for use in the 2nd half of the season on the 26.

I hope that if the Sox sign Duvall or a decent reliever or both before they trade Hendriks that it will be a sign to you that they are a bit more serious than you think they are. Right now I'm holding out hope that the Benintendi trade and then an immediate trade of Hendriks would send a terrible message to fans, like Ha we gave you hope and now we are going to smash it because we are a sadistic group of MF's !!

So yeah I'm looking for a sign like Duvall to show me they aren't that sadistic.

Edited December 25, 20223 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

9 minutes ago, hi8is said:

I’m in. Winner hosts a playoff game.

Ha I like the cut of your jib ! Happy Holidays Trev !

On 12/23/2022 at 5:39 PM, Jose Abreu said:

A Varsho-Kiermaier-Springer outfielder is the best in baseball (defensively at least) without a doubt. 2 gold glove-level CFs and an above average (arguably well-above average depending on the metric) Springer

Varsho bat is nowhere near Teoscar. It seems like they traded offense for defense pretty much all offseason.

Also while Varsho metrics on defense last year were encouraging it's literally like 50 games or so. He has far from established himself as a gold glove caliber OF though the asset the Jays gave up (top ten prospect) demands that he be one.

If the trade becomes an .750ish OF with power who doesn't get on base with above average defense they got taken to the cleaners. Anyways I wish we got in on Mareno to me he is going to be the next star at catcher. I was extremely surprised the Jays gave up that much control since Jansen is about to be a free agent and Kirk can't catch.

What looked to be a surplus really isn't. Anyways to me this was one of the more lopsided trades this offseason.

1 hour ago, hi8is said:

I’m in. Winner hosts a playoff game.

And if it lands exactly on 22, I win. 

2 hours ago, Sox72 said:

And if it lands exactly on 22, I win. 

Then we’re all going to your house for a playoff game… cool. Brats and mustard - that good stuff that comes in a jar with a yellow lid… Coleman’s or whatever.

11 hours ago, hi8is said:

Then we’re all going to your house for a playoff game… cool. Brats and mustard - that good stuff that comes in a jar with a yellow lid… Coleman’s or whatever.

And one Lay's potato chip.