3 minutes ago, fathom said:

Jays no longer make sense as trade partner.  Have a feeling Liam stays now, which is cool.

Why not?

Did they suddenly lose all those catchers?

Edited December 23, 20223 yr by SoCalChiSox

Just now, SoCalChiSox said:

Why not?

Did they suddenly loss all those catchers?

They just traded their top catching prospect

Just now, SoCalChiSox said:

Why not?

Did they suddenly loss all those catchers?

Yep traded Moreno for Varsho

2 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Why not?

Did they suddenly lose all those catchers?

One, yeah. But picked up a guy that can also catch a bit.

Damn

Feels like dbacks have just been in this perpetual almost there rebuild with the marlins too

6 minutes ago, bmags said:

Feels like dbacks have just been in this perpetual almost there rebuild with the marlins too

Thar’s gold in them thar hills.

51 minutes ago, bmags said:

Feels like dbacks have just been in this perpetual almost there rebuild with the marlins too

They easy won that Jays trade.

A premier catching catching prospect for a non on base OF with pop? If I am a jays fan I ask why you only got Erik Swanson for Teoscar but are giving up Mareno for Vasho.

That is a very bad sequence.

Edited December 23, 20223 yr by wrathofhahn

Yeah I’m not sure what the Jays are doing. First dumping OF for any value they could find, then moving into acquiring similar level OF with real prospects. 

3 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

Yeah I’m not sure what the Jays are doing. First dumping OF for any value they could find, then moving into acquiring similar level OF with real prospects. 

I think we may be seeing a valuation change due to the elimination of the shift. Teoscar Hernandez, Gurriel, and Moreno all hit RH. The two OF are not great out there. Varsho hits LH and gives you plus D.  I understand ex  as calypso what the Jays are thinking.

24 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

Yeah I’m not sure what the Jays are doing. First dumping OF for any value they could find, then moving into acquiring similar level OF with real prospects. 

Are you saying Teoscar and Varsho are similar value players?

27 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

Yeah I’m not sure what the Jays are doing. First dumping OF for any value they could find, then moving into acquiring similar level OF with real prospects. 

They desperately needed LH bats. 

3 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

They desperately needed LH bats. 

Yep, they literally had an entire right-handed lineup before getting Varsho and Kiermaier. Their OF defense has improved dramatically with the moves they've made.

2 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Yep, they literally had an entire right-handed lineup before getting Varsho and Kiermaier. Their OF defense has improved dramatically with the moves they've made.

A Varsho-Kiermaier-Springer outfielder is the best in baseball (defensively at least) without a doubt. 2 gold glove-level CFs and an above average (arguably well-above average depending on the metric) Springer

1 minute ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Yep, they literally had an entire right-handed lineup before getting Varsho and Kiermaier. Their OF defense has improved dramatically with the moves they've made.

Yeah, they were very RH heavy and needed more LH balance.  They still have enough power to absorb the losses of Teoscar and Gurriel while also upgrading the OF defense.  

4 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Yeah, they were very RH heavy and needed more LH balance.  They still have enough power to absorb the losses of Teoscar and Gurriel while also upgrading the OF defense.  

It's arguable they still need more balance. As it stands, Varsho probably won't bat any higher than 5th at best. Plus Kiermaier isn't exact known for his bat. Still massively righty heavy.

1 hour ago, wrathofhahn said:

They easy won that Jays trade.

A premier catching catching prospect for a non on base OF with pop? If I am a jays fan I ask why you only got Erik Swanson for Teoscar but are giving up Mareno for Vasho.

That is a very bad sequence.

I’m not saying dbacks did bad it just seems they have been swapping young current core for upcoming core for years. But like, not to same success as Rays.

3 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

3 hours ago, tray said:

Hahn is not going to disassemble the core of this team.

And it’s too late, Tray B., now it’s to late…..

Hahn is not Goin' Back.  Time for Vaughn at 1st now.  My point was that the Sox cannot afford to lose any more of our big bats - Eloy, Vaughn, Robert and TA.   Top of our order looks great with TA, Benintendi and Robert. Eloy clean-up followed by Colas, Vaughn and Moncada , 2B and catcher.

Hahn can deal for a 2B and a catcher out of our bullpen, starting wit Hendriks. 

Long shot possibility ... bring up Colson Montgomery sometime during the 2023 season to play third and shift Moncada back to 2B.  I don't see Montgomery as a major league SS at his size, but I could be wrong. 

 

17 minutes ago, tray said:

Hahn is not Goin' Back.  Time for Vaughn at 1st now.  My point was that the Sox cannot afford to lose any more of our big bats - Eloy, Vaughn, Robert and TA.   Top of our order looks great with TA, Benintendi and Robert. Eloy clean-up followed by Colas, Vaughn and Moncada , 2B and catcher.

Hahn can deal for a 2B and a catcher out of our bullpen, starting wit Hendriks. 

Long shot possibility ... bring up Colson Montgomery sometime during the 2023 season to play third and shift Moncada back to 2B.  I don't see Montgomery as a major league SS at his size, but I could be wrong. 

Tray,

I'm with you if the Sox signed Segura, and acquire a fourth OF who can cover at minimum RF and CF, and also play regularly if Colas has growing pains and or Robert is injured. Colas is their only current CF backup option with an above .600 OPS potential (Leury and Billy the others). 

Not sure whether Eloy could have drawn a solid #2-3 starter like Pablo Lopez (2.8 projected fWAR), but that was the route I would have taken if I could also add Conforto (1.9), Segura (2.5) and 10 D (2.3) to upgrade the roster offensively, massive upgrade defensively, and huge lift to the rotation even with losing Abreu (2.5) and Eloy (2.9). That roster would have a lot more flexibility than the still restrained roster, and their current bench is atrocious once again if called to play regularly (Leury, Billy, the second 2B). Not to mention the potential of Grandal not being able to catch regularly throughout the season.

DVS of the Sun-Times today had a story that basically said second base will be filled by "internal" options.

19 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

They easy won that Jays trade.

A premier catching catching prospect for a non on base OF with pop? If I am a jays fan I ask why you only got Erik Swanson for Teoscar but are giving up Mareno for Vasho.

That is a very bad sequence.

In addition to Varsho’s D and the jays needing LH bats, Teoscar is also a free agent after the season. 

Varsho’s value is incredibly higher than Teoscar’s.

Hernandez is a healthy Eloy-lite, with 1 year left on his deal. They flipped him for a cost-controlled reliever. 
Varsho was a top 40 prospect; entered the majors and developed into an excellent fielder with pop;  they dealt a great prospect, but from a position where they have depth.
Blue Jays aren't unlimited spenders; seems like they leveraged their assets to give themselves a good chance to win.

lol this one got me earlier when Soxtalk was down. I saw it like 1 sec after it was posted and quick glance just saw the pic of Buster. Believed it up until the Vogelbach part and when I checked who posted it.

33 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

DVS of the Sun-Times today had a story that basically said second base will be filled by "internal" options.

I basically don't believe anything about what's going to happen with the team no matter who writes it. No one thought the Sox would sign Benintendi but it happened.

Now Hendriks name pops up and most of the speculation is that it's for cost cutting. It could be that or something else. It could be trading for prospects which could then lead to more trades to fill holes or it could be to fill holes immediately.

There are holes to fill and after the off season finishes and the season starts I'm sure we will still have a hole or 2 depending on our own thoughts about which holes need filling more than others.

I can't see them not wanting to add more power either in the form of a 4th OF or 2nd baseman or both. It's wise not to count on a bunch of rebound candidates for power when they didn't have a guy last year who hit 20 HR's and among the rebounds candidates are guys who are oft injured or whose chances of rebounding look slimmer every year.The payroll final numbers will determine many things. Right now that's a mystery.

To me, trading Hendriks is also about "staying ahead of the curve."  I wouldn't trade him for short-term help (Hendriks is short term help).  I'd trade him for long-term help, but which also helps this year......like working a 3-way for one of those D Back outfielders.    
The Sox haven't drafted and developed a good outfielder since Rowand; on the other hand, they've done a decent job nabbing ML ready outfielders from other teams (specifically, the D Backs).
 

Edited December 24, 20223 yr by GreenSox