2023-24 NFL Season Thread

[Quin]

41 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I think the Ravens are on the short list for best organization in the sport and I also think the Bears completely screwed up in the development of Fields. So, I get it…it’s been “unfair” to him.

I was one of the few Ravens fans that wanted Lamar traded a few years ago. I felt that paying him was a mistake because I questioned if he could elevate the passing game enough to win in January.

Now, the other side to that is that I also said he hasn’t been given a real passing offense and the weapons have been subpar, so maybe it’s the team holding him back more than Lamar holding himself back.

Fast forward to right now and he’s about to win his second MVp and he has looked the best he ever has throwing the ball.

Now, we still need to see what he does in January but bringing in a real pass offense and giving him guys that can actually play well on the outside has made a lot of difference.

I say this to simply say that Fields could get a lot better with better players and a better system around him.

But do you pass on a top end QB talent and cheap play for 5 years  for that hope?  There is no greater commodity in sports than a successful NFL QB playing on a rookie deal.

As @Balta1701 has outlined - this is all a debate because the stars have pretty much aligned perfectly.

• The Bears aren't your traditional team picking #1 overall, they have 7+ wins and have had good late season development.
• Fields clearly has the locker room. Obviously, players will play with whoever, but chemistry matters.
• The best player in the draft is a wide receiver who it seems is borderline begging to be drafted by the Bears on social media. DJ Moore loves him.
• On the topic of Moore, Fields has a 134.6 passer rating to him. Obviously "QB needs top tier weapons" shouldn't be your only strategy, but something is there and getting another DJ Moore and shoring up the O-Line/complimenting Sweat/even getting Bowers is an enticing notion (as is Williams/Nabers or Odzune, but there are multiple scenarios)
•  While there are more than 2 QBs to like - Williams and Maye are the clear top 2. The Bears could draft one, which means all the other teams in need of a QB - the Pats, Commanders, Falcons, Raiders, etc. would be vying for the other. And if one of those teams likes one more than the other (which seems to be Williams), then they need the Bears' pick.
• GMs are implying that the Bears could get more for this pick than the 2023 first overall.
• Even with extensions for their own players looming - JJ being the most immediate and Fields down the road - the Bears still have some cap this offseason. Poles has room to play.
• The "new QB + coach on hotseat" model has been horrendous for Mitch and Fields, so unless Eberflus is gone, keeping Fields should be the move. That seemed obvious, but the late season turnaround happened.
• A new OC might be the cure that ails them (especially if they load up on offensive talent), who knows.
• Claypool toxicity seemed to be real.

I'm in the keep Fields camp because of the haul the pick should bring that would include MHJ, but I'm also in the "let Poles cook" camp. If he moves on, then it was probably for the best.

Edit:

I forgot to include:

• The other wrinkle is that, obviously, Fields has shown flashes of brilliance. He has also been a dud. If he sucks this weekend, you'll hear a lot of clamoring for Williams, but if he leads the Bears to victory, you'll hear non-stop calls to keep him.
• Williams had some primma donna stories come out (but also, he's gonna be #1 overall, so to be expected) with his dad, losing big games and crying (after ragging on others), etc. So when you have Fields (who is absurdly likable), the fans grow attached. That shouldn't factor, but it's part of why fans will feel a certain way.

[Milkman delivers]

40 minutes ago, ptatc said:

The worst result and it very possible is that they keep Fields, trade the pick then Fields remains the same inconsistent qb next year and gets the entire coaching staff fired. 

Now they need to start everything over with the new coaching staff and sets back the development of all the drafted players and the team goes back to the no man's land of 8-9 records. 

That’s pretty much where I think it’d go.

And as a fan of a perennial loser franchise, I’d be warier of trading away the pick the more other teams are willing to give up for it. At some point, you have to wonder if everyone else is a fool for wanting to get a certain guy (likely Williams), or you’re the fool to give him away when you have the pick guaranteed.

[Quin]

Unrelated to Fields vs. #1 pick, CornDoggy (reddit artist who does matchup artwork for the NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL) has a fun one this week:

[Kyyle23]

lol I’m sorry Quin that is bad 

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

There are a couple of similarities in the situation. 

1. Is it the passing offense or that the coaching staff realizes the limitations of the qbs. If it's the passing offense you are assuming the coaches are idiots which is a possibility. 

2. Are these qbs players who the teams win because of or can win with. If the Bears have a chance to get a QB that they can win because of, it's tempting. 

3. The style of these two leads to a greater chance of injury. Do teams want to take that chance of a lucky season without injury in order to win the super bowl.?

1) I don’t watch the Bears, so I can’t say for sure with you guys. But they are covered a lot nationally and things that I heard in the past point more to ineptness of the offense and game plan and weapons vs Fields. I know Fields has outstanding numbers throwing to Moore, so that would seem to indicate having talent is helpful to him. (Not like that is some revelation of course)

2) 100% agree.

3) I disagree with this, at least with Lamar. I say that because Lamar doesn’t take big hits. He is smart about it. I don’t know if Fields is because I don’t watch him enough to say. But lots of pocket QBs are getting hurt too. 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

The worst result and it very possible is that they keep Fields, trade the pick then Fields remains the same inconsistent qb next year and gets the entire coaching staff fired. 

Now they need to start everything over with the new coaching staff and sets back the development of all the drafted players and the team goes back to the no man's land of 8-9 records. 

Want to specifically address this.

First of all, let's consider the trade-down scenario - how different do the Bears look in this scenario? The Bears trade down, they will add either MHJ (if they trade with the Pats for example) or someone like the 11th pick and Maxx Crosby if they did a move comparable to what they did last year. They will then be adding their pick, maybe around 10-12, so two first round picks. They will have Sweat for the full year. 

On top of that, the Bears are almost done clearing out the dead cap space from the last administration. They have $24 million in dead cap space this year, that money will be available to spend next year. They have less to spend than last offseason, but this is valuable money, this is the stuff that allows a roster to build additional depth.

On top of that, they have Sweat for the full season, and we have all absolutely seen the improvement in their pass rush after that trade. 

On top of that, a couple of their losses this year have been ridiculous. You certainly can't say they have been lucky in their performance this year - this could be coaching and not change, but its hard to think about them being far less lucky next year.

Given all of that...if Justin Fields is the same player as this year, they should still be notably better next year. Their roster should be deeper, they should have a pair of extra first round picks, possibly MHJ or possibly a strong extra player depending on what they trade for. 

If Justin Fields doesn't get worse, the Bears adding all that should be competitive for a playoff roster next year. It takes Justin Fields getting notably worse or hurt for a large portion of the year or something else going terribly wrong for them to be significantly worse than this year.

Now if that happens - the Bears go 7-10 next year. Their draft pick should be around 8-10 next year at the worst. If they did this, presumably they're also holding an extra 1st round pick from the trade this year - either the Raiders pick, the Patriots pick, the Giants pick, whatever. If that is the case, the Bears are in position to get a QB next year. They are holding two 1st round picks, probably both in the top 15, as well as a pick early in the 2nd round. They absolutely would have the resources to trade up into the top few picks in 2025 if they need to trade up for a QB, and if there turn out to be several QBs available they could already be in position to get one of them with one of their first round picks.

This isn't the only strategy, if Poles is ready to pull the plug on Fields I'm not angry, but trading back and having the QB spot go poorly should not sabotage the franchise. 

[Quin]

25 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

lol I’m sorry Quin that is bad 

Sir, this is art

 

 

 

 

View this post on Instagram

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A post shared by CornDoggyLOL (@corndoggylol)

[Kyyle23]

Sir, that is AI prompts 

[Quin]

1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

Sir, that is AI prompts 

honestly, I'd have agreed if the same artist hadn't been making his stuff (and posting it across reddit) for four years now (and getting noticeably better)

Benny the Wizard haunts me

[Kyyle23]

My man, our definition of “better” parts right here 😂

[Quin]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Want to specifically address this.

First of all, let's consider the trade-down scenario - how different do the Bears look in this scenario? The Bears trade down, they will add either MHJ (if they trade with the Pats for example) or someone like the 11th pick and Maxx Crosby if they did a move comparable to what they did last year. They will then be adding their pick, maybe around 10-12, so two first round picks. They will have Sweat for the full year. 

On top of that, the Bears are almost done clearing out the dead cap space from the last administration. They have $24 million in dead cap space this year, that money will be available to spend next year. They have less to spend than last offseason, but this is valuable money, this is the stuff that allows a roster to build additional depth.

On top of that, they have Sweat for the full season, and we have all absolutely seen the improvement in their pass rush after that trade. 

On top of that, a couple of their losses this year have been ridiculous. You certainly can't say they have been lucky in their performance this year - this could be coaching and not change, but its hard to think about them being far less lucky next year.

Given all of that...if Justin Fields is the same player as this year, they should still be notably better next year. Their roster should be deeper, they should have a pair of extra first round picks, possibly MHJ or possibly a strong extra player depending on what they trade for. 

If Justin Fields doesn't get worse, the Bears adding all that should be competitive for a playoff roster next year. It takes Justin Fields getting notably worse or hurt for a large portion of the year or something else going terribly wrong for them to be significantly worse than this year.

Now if that happens - the Bears go 7-10 next year. Their draft pick should be around 8-10 next year at the worst. If they did this, presumably they're also holding an extra 1st round pick from the trade this year - either the Raiders pick, the Patriots pick, the Giants pick, whatever. If that is the case, the Bears are in position to get a QB next year. They are holding two 1st round picks, probably both in the top 15, as well as a pick early in the 2nd round. They absolutely would have the resources to trade up into the top few picks in 2025 if they need to trade up for a QB, and if there turn out to be several QBs available they could already be in position to get one of them with one of their first round picks.

This isn't the only strategy, if Poles is ready to pull the plug on Fields I'm not angry, but trading back and having the QB spot go poorly should not sabotage the franchise. 

It needs to be pointed out, that Balta normally rags on people using bad luck as a crutch, so this should hammer home how bad their luck has been.

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, Quin said:

It needs to be pointed out, that Balta normally rags on people using bad luck as a crutch, so this should hammer home how bad their luck has been.

How many games have the Bears lost this year where they had 90% odds of winning? More than 1 right? Some of that is coaching fine, that part might not change, but that is hard to pull off, almost impossible to do worse, and in the NFL one loss is a pretty high fraction of your yearly performance.

This is not true in baseball, where 2 or 3 very unlucky losses are a much smaller fraction of the season, and there's a much higher chance that they will be balanced out by a couple of freaky wins over the next 150 games. 

[Kyyle23]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

How many games have the Bears lost this year where they had 90% odds of winning? More than 1 right? Some of that is coaching fine, that part might not change, but that is hard to pull off, almost impossible to do worse, and in the NFL one loss is a pretty high fraction of your yearly performance.

This is not true in baseball, where 2 or 3 very unlucky losses are a much smaller fraction of the season, and there's a much higher chance that they will be balanced out by a couple of freaky wins over the next 150 games. 

Three games holding a double digit lead into the 4th quarter.  Not sure what likelihood to win was on all three but it had to be high because these were historic losses. 
 

and to me, that’s why Flus is out but the head coach showed he could coach defense (wow who knew) and he got a better part of the schedule to close the season so here we are, with people being like yea Flus can stay now this has been fine

[T R U]

24 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Want to specifically address this.

First of all, let's consider the trade-down scenario - how different do the Bears look in this scenario? The Bears trade down, they will add either MHJ (if they trade with the Pats for example) or someone like the 11th pick and Maxx Crosby if they did a move comparable to what they did last year. They will then be adding their pick, maybe around 10-12, so two first round picks. They will have Sweat for the full year. 

On top of that, the Bears are almost done clearing out the dead cap space from the last administration. They have $24 million in dead cap space this year, that money will be available to spend next year. They have less to spend than last offseason, but this is valuable money, this is the stuff that allows a roster to build additional depth.

On top of that, they have Sweat for the full season, and we have all absolutely seen the improvement in their pass rush after that trade. 

On top of that, a couple of their losses this year have been ridiculous. You certainly can't say they have been lucky in their performance this year - this could be coaching and not change, but its hard to think about them being far less lucky next year.

Given all of that...if Justin Fields is the same player as this year, they should still be notably better next year. Their roster should be deeper, they should have a pair of extra first round picks, possibly MHJ or possibly a strong extra player depending on what they trade for. 

If Justin Fields doesn't get worse, the Bears adding all that should be competitive for a playoff roster next year. It takes Justin Fields getting notably worse or hurt for a large portion of the year or something else going terribly wrong for them to be significantly worse than this year.

Now if that happens - the Bears go 7-10 next year. Their draft pick should be around 8-10 next year at the worst. If they did this, presumably they're also holding an extra 1st round pick from the trade this year - either the Raiders pick, the Patriots pick, the Giants pick, whatever. If that is the case, the Bears are in position to get a QB next year. They are holding two 1st round picks, probably both in the top 15, as well as a pick early in the 2nd round. They absolutely would have the resources to trade up into the top few picks in 2025 if they need to trade up for a QB, and if there turn out to be several QBs available they could already be in position to get one of them with one of their first round picks.

This isn't the only strategy, if Poles is ready to pull the plug on Fields I'm not angry, but trading back and having the QB spot go poorly should not sabotage the franchise. 

Passing on a QB with that first pick and then coming out and having a bad season or even mediocre for that matter would be, almost surely, the end of your career with the Bears if you're in that front office. Especially if one of those QB's has a CJ Stroud type season.

Could you imagine the Bears trading back with the Giants, the Giants selecting one of Williams/Daniels/May and then winning 11 games and going to the playoffs? While the Bears go 7-10 8-9 or 9-8 and miss? Yikes.

If they believe one of these QB's are legit franchise caliber, you have to pull the trigger. It not only allows you to upgrade from Fields but probably buys you some time as well in your position.

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, T R U said:

Passing on a QB with that first pick and then coming out and having a bad season or even mediocre for that matter would be, almost surely, the end of your career with the Bears if you're in that front office. Especially if one of those QB's has a CJ Stroud type season.

Could you imagine the Bears trading back with the Giants, the Giants selecting one of Williams/Daniels/May and then winning 11 games and going to the playoffs? While the Bears go 7-10 8-9 or 9-8 and miss? Yikes.

If they believe one of these QB's are legit franchise caliber, you have to pull the trigger. It not only allows you to upgrade from Fields but probably buys you some time as well in your position.

Turn it around the other way - the Bears draft Williams and he behaves like a young QB and struggles. The Bears take a step back from 7/8 wins to 5/6. Meanwhile, the Bears trade Fields for a 2nd round pick from the Saints or Bucs and Fields wins 11 games and is in the playoffs next year. Does anyone get fired?

[T R U]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Turn it around the other way - the Bears draft Williams and he behaves like a young QB and struggles. The Bears take a step back from 7/8 wins to 5/6. Meanwhile, the Bears trade Fields for a 2nd round pick from the Saints or Bucs and Fields wins 11 games and is in the playoffs next year. Does anyone get fired?

Fields has started 12 or more games for 3 straight seasons now. He hasn't gotten any better. I can't really look at it the other way around.

** 10 starts, 12 games played in the first year

Edited January 5 by T R U
Correction

[chw42]

1 hour ago, Quin said:

As @Balta1701 has outlined - this is all a debate because the stars have pretty much aligned perfectly.

• The Bears aren't your traditional team picking #1 overall, they have 7+ wins and have had good late season development.
• Fields clearly has the locker room. Obviously, players will play with whoever, but chemistry matters.
• The best player in the draft is a wide receiver who it seems is borderline begging to be drafted by the Bears on social media. DJ Moore loves him.
• On the topic of Moore, Fields has a 134.6 passer rating to him. Obviously "QB needs top tier weapons" shouldn't be your only strategy, but something is there and getting another DJ Moore and shoring up the O-Line/complimenting Sweat/even getting Bowers is an enticing notion (as is Williams/Nabers or Odzune, but there are multiple scenarios)
•  While there are more than 2 QBs to like - Williams and Maye are the clear top 2. The Bears could draft one, which means all the other teams in need of a QB - the Pats, Commanders, Falcons, Raiders, etc. would be vying for the other. And if one of those teams likes one more than the other (which seems to be Williams), then they need the Bears' pick.
• GMs are implying that the Bears could get more for this pick than the 2023 first overall.
• Even with extensions for their own players looming - JJ being the most immediate and Fields down the road - the Bears still have some cap this offseason. Poles has room to play.
• The "new QB + coach on hotseat" model has been horrendous for Mitch and Fields, so unless Eberflus is gone, keeping Fields should be the move. That seemed obvious, but the late season turnaround happened.
• A new OC might be the cure that ails them (especially if they load up on offensive talent), who knows.
• Claypool toxicity seemed to be real.

I'm in the keep Fields camp because of the haul the pick should bring that would include MHJ, but I'm also in the "let Poles cook" camp. If he moves on, then it was probably for the best.

Edit:

I forgot to include:

• The other wrinkle is that, obviously, Fields has shown flashes of brilliance. He has also been a dud. If he sucks this weekend, you'll hear a lot of clamoring for Williams, but if he leads the Bears to victory, you'll hear non-stop calls to keep him.
• Williams had some primma donna stories come out (but also, he's gonna be #1 overall, so to be expected) with his dad, losing big games and crying (after ragging on others), etc. So when you have Fields (who is absurdly likable), the fans grow attached. That shouldn't factor, but it's part of why fans will feel a certain way.

I think the conundrum with Fields in general is that you need to build an offense around him for him to truly succeed. Yet, if you do that, there's a good possibility he ends up missing at least 25% of the season because his game gets him hurt and he gets absolutely no calls from the refs when the other team tries to concuss him every time he runs. I think there was a reason Getsy tried so hard to make him a pocket passer in the early parts of the last 2 seasons. Because in order for him to be the long term solution, he needs to develop as a pocket passer. That's for his own good and for the good of the team in the long term. 

On top of that, because his game is so run dependent, his stats and performance in obvious passing scenarios are abysmal.  Do we really want a QB who has a bunch of issues in obvious scenarios leading you on crucial drives in late and close games? Because if you do, you're basically limiting yourself to winning games where you're just way better than your opposition. That usually doesn't happen in the playoffs. And if you look at the games the Bears have won this year, they've more or less lead big in all of them from the start with the exception of the Vikings game. 

I think what's interesting about Fields this year is that his stats are actually not that different than the down year Lamar put up in 2021. Their adjusted rate stats were very similar. Exact same QBR+ at 94, similar sack rate, similar ANY/A+. The Ravens were also 8-9 that year. That was also Lamar's 4th season. The difference was that he was the MVP 2 years before that and he was also much better in obvious passing situations late in close games. 

Ultimately, I think Fields' biggest problem, regardless of how his overall stats look, is that you can't really count on him in situations where his arm has to win you the game. He's only done it once in his career and he's had a ton of opportunities to do it over the past few years. It got so bad that you could predict a turnover in a situation like that and you would have been right almost 75% of the time. 

Nobody can really guarantee that Williams or Maye will be better than Fields next year, but if Williams answers a lot of the questions about his size and character pre-draft, I almost think you'd have to pick him. Because unless Fields takes leaps as a passer (in his 4th year, which usually does not happen), you're not going to win with him consistently. Especially if you want to win in the playoffs. 

[Balta1701]

14 minutes ago, T R U said:

Fields has started 12 or more games for 3 straight seasons now. He hasn't gotten any better. I can't really look at it the other way around.

** 10 starts, 12 games played in the first year

It looks to me like Fields's numbers have improved each year. His passing numbers improved from Y1 to Y2/Y3, his passing numbers have been steady in y3 but he has also fumbled less as a runner in Y3. 

I would like to have seen more growth from him as a passer this year, especially early in the year as I still haven't figured out what the bloody hell happened those first few games those were awful. But, I do think you've seen an improving player overall, especially since the KC debacle. 

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

1) I don’t watch the Bears, so I can’t say for sure with you guys. But they are covered a lot nationally and things that I heard in the past point more to ineptness of the offense and game plan and weapons vs Fields. I know Fields has outstanding numbers throwing to Moore, so that would seem to indicate having talent is helpful to him. (Not like that is some revelation of course)

2) 100% agree.

3) I disagree with this, at least with Lamar. I say that because Lamar doesn’t take big hits. He is smart about it. I don’t know if Fields is because I don’t watch him enough to say. But lots of pocket QBs are getting hurt too. 

How many games has Jackson missed in his career compared to pocket QBs? 

Of course everyone can get injured, I see it everyday, I wouldnt have a job if they didn't. However look at track record and it is a significant risk. 

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Want to specifically address this.

First of all, let's consider the trade-down scenario - how different do the Bears look in this scenario? The Bears trade down, they will add either MHJ (if they trade with the Pats for example) or someone like the 11th pick and Maxx Crosby if they did a move comparable to what they did last year. They will then be adding their pick, maybe around 10-12, so two first round picks. They will have Sweat for the full year. 

On top of that, the Bears are almost done clearing out the dead cap space from the last administration. They have $24 million in dead cap space this year, that money will be available to spend next year. They have less to spend than last offseason, but this is valuable money, this is the stuff that allows a roster to build additional depth.

On top of that, they have Sweat for the full season, and we have all absolutely seen the improvement in their pass rush after that trade. 

On top of that, a couple of their losses this year have been ridiculous. You certainly can't say they have been lucky in their performance this year - this could be coaching and not change, but its hard to think about them being far less lucky next year.

Given all of that...if Justin Fields is the same player as this year, they should still be notably better next year. Their roster should be deeper, they should have a pair of extra first round picks, possibly MHJ or possibly a strong extra player depending on what they trade for. 

If Justin Fields doesn't get worse, the Bears adding all that should be competitive for a playoff roster next year. It takes Justin Fields getting notably worse or hurt for a large portion of the year or something else going terribly wrong for them to be significantly worse than this year.

Now if that happens - the Bears go 7-10 next year. Their draft pick should be around 8-10 next year at the worst. If they did this, presumably they're also holding an extra 1st round pick from the trade this year - either the Raiders pick, the Patriots pick, the Giants pick, whatever. If that is the case, the Bears are in position to get a QB next year. They are holding two 1st round picks, probably both in the top 15, as well as a pick early in the 2nd round. They absolutely would have the resources to trade up into the top few picks in 2025 if they need to trade up for a QB, and if there turn out to be several QBs available they could already be in position to get one of them with one of their first round picks.

This isn't the only strategy, if Poles is ready to pull the plug on Fields I'm not angry, but trading back and having the QB spot go poorly should not sabotage the franchise. 

I still disagree. The franchise QB, if they think one of the guys is, will change the direction of the organization. 

They can win with an average QB but all of the draft capital has to go right and very few mistakes can be made. 

It is less likely to work. Of course it can be its less likely. 

[Balta1701]

18 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I still disagree. The franchise QB, if they think one of the guys is, will change the direction of the organization. 

They can win with an average QB but all of the draft capital has to go right and very few mistakes can be made. 

It is less likely to work. Of course it can be its less likely. 

If the Bears do a set of evaluations and come out screaming "Take Caleb Williams this isnt' close", then the Bears should absolutely take the QB and trade Fields, hopefully getting a 2nd rounder or maybe a conditional pick out of him.

If the Bears do a set of evaluations and things are close, or the Bears listen to offers and they get one that is truly a standout offer, I think that offers a pretty good path forwards. 

If New England was willing to do an all-in offer to get the #1 QB, where the Bears could still take MHJ and also stockpile picks, boy that's tempting. I don't know that they will, they will be figuring out their coaching situation first, but I'd definitely listen.

[ptatc]

17 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If the Bears do a set of evaluations and come out screaming "Take Caleb Williams this isnt' close", then the Bears should absolutely take the QB and trade Fields, hopefully getting a 2nd rounder or maybe a conditional pick out of him.

If the Bears do a set of evaluations and things are close, or the Bears listen to offers and they get one that is truly a standout offer, I think that offers a pretty good path forwards. 

If New England was willing to do an all-in offer to get the #1 QB, where the Bears could still take MHJ and also stockpile picks, boy that's tempting. I don't know that they will, they will be figuring out their coaching situation first, but I'd definitely listen.

I agree. I just don't think Fields has done enough that they should come to this conclusion. 

However, just like with the Sox, it's their team so they need to trust in their guys 

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I agree. I just don't think Fields has done enough that they should come to this conclusion. 

However, just like with the Sox, it's their team so they need to trust in their guys 

It's tough to answer this one because his season has been so weird - those first 3 games were "deer in the headlights" bad, he looked like me out there trying to figure out how to read a defense. He hasn't been the best QB in the league the rest of the year, but he hasn't been nearly as blatantly awful as he was in those games. You can find the clips in this thread, there were so many "What are you even looking at" plays that no one could tell what was going on - he looked substantially worse than last year. Then, he snapped back the other way, and started having actually quality performances. That can't just have been "we need to make him a pocket passer" because something was clearly short-circuiting in his decision making at those times and I don't know what that was. Does that mean he could be better if he avoids a stretch like that? Does that mean he could have a longer stretch like that next year and just be completely awful? I'm not sure.

[Tony]

Everyone is sort of saying the same thing, and it's what I was also saying last night. 

If Poles believes one of Williams or Maye could be a true franchise QB, and if he's right....then it's absolutely the right call to draft one of them at No. 1. 

The team as currently constructed, today, is probably an 8-9 win team next year. If you trade the No. 1 overall, given the salary cap the Bears have, plus draft capital, 10 wins seems very possible next year WITH Fields and this current group. But that still comes with the limitations Fields brings on the field, as well as him being in Year 4 of his contract. 

I see both sides and will accept either path, because these are not bad problems to have. 

[Sports Guy]

.

Edited January 5 by Sports Guy