2 hours ago, HOFHurt35 said:

I agree.  But since it's the only name they recognize,  it becomes the punchline. 

For sure, it’s just really dumb. 

With this latest surrender, Reinsdorf has done the impossible and now owns the most irrelevant major-market team in all of pro sports.

Well Done, Jerry.

Edited July 29, 20232 yr by GradMc

5 hours ago, Capn12 said:

Uh....absolutely, I'll take that return for Kendall Graveman. Tear it down, Rick!

I would have given Graveman away for free just to rid ourselves of his salary for next year.  This is a great return for a guy not living up to his contract.

25 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I would have given Graveman away for free just to rid ourselves of his salary for next year.  This is a great return for a guy not living up to his contract.

Yea he was real mediocre for us.  Sox are none the worse for being without Kelly, Graveman and Lynn.  Really, the only loss is Giolito.  
I'm  glad to be done with all 3 of them.

Chuck and Ryan McGuffey talk about the trade.

Highlights:

Vaughn looked at Burger and said Lee had power like him.

Chuck talked to a minor league scout, probably one of the Sox ,so take this with a massive grain of salt.

He said that Cuero and Lee both could be All Star catchers.  But interesting how he was pretty high on both of them.

My own opinion is that the returns were decent for guys who were pretty worthless. I normally think its not a great idea to target catchers so smart organization really don't care much about giving them up. Hard to find good defensive catchers who can hit and they take much longer to find offense with the amount of time it takes to learn defense.

That being said the whole Sox catching situation is bleak. Might see both Lee and Hackenburg next year along with Perez. That's a lot of youth back there. But it will be competitive at least.

4 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

I just think if KW was driving the bus on these deals, it would be an easy leak for a Rosenthal or Morosi.

The speed and urgency of these deals just doesn't have that Hahn feel.

Keith Law actually likes all the moves the Sox have made and actually said Lee may be the very best move. This is...weird.

Sox suddenly have some depth at catching.  Lee will probably finish the season in MLB. Hackenberg is at least near the bottom of their top 30. Big time arm.  Quero is highly regarded. I wonder how loud the tools really are, but the industry likes him. If he's high OBP who can stay behind the dish, that's a good player. Calvin Harris is a fairly high draft pick and I think Ronny Hernandez can really hit. (Haven't heard how he looks defensively.) And in the DSL, Stiven Flores is off to a great start. Add my personal cheeseball who's never gonna start in the majors but I like anyway, Michael Turner, and ther figures to be some competition at least.

With the movement on his sinker and his velocity he should have been better than he was. Blame coaching. I do. 

52 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

Keith Law actually likes all the moves the Sox have made and actually said Lee may be the very best move. This is...weird.

It seems that the industry consensus on Lee is that there is no consensus.

24 minutes ago, Stinky Stanky said:

With the movement on his sinker and his velocity he should have been better than he was. Blame coaching. I do. 

Thank you Yoda !

Speaking of catchers. I'm looking at Yeminator on instagram live now lol

2 hours ago, GreenSox said:

The speed and urgency of these deals just doesn't have that Hahn feel.

I tend to agree. I was a skeptic but the speed of the moves feels like classic Kenny. 

7 hours ago, GreenSox said:

Yea he was real mediocre for us.  Sox are none the worse for being without Kelly, Graveman and Lynn.  Really, the only loss is Giolito.  
I'm  glad to be done with all 3 of them.

Reynaldo already forgotten...

3 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

I tend to agree. I was a skeptic but the speed of the moves feels like classic Kenny. 

Apparently Law hasn't gotten the memo to hate White Sox trades KW was involved with...

The easiest way to build a successful track record as an analyst is to claim every Sox trade is a disaster. Trying to figure out the one on fifteen that actually works out for the Sox is the real test. 

12 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

As was the case the past decade, if the deals work out they were Hahn's, and if they don't they were Kenny's.

Success has many fathers but failure is an orphan.

Per Law:

"...but he [Lee] still has that everyday ceiling if he gets back to the hitter he was through 2021, swinging at strikes and putting the ball in play rather than trying to dead-pull so many pitches."

https://theathletic.com/4729990/2023/07/28/white-sox-dodgers-astros-scouting-report/

10 hours ago, EloyJenkins said:

Keith Law actually likes all the moves the Sox have made and actually said Lee may be the very best move. This is...weird.

It's Williams that the BP guys beat on mercilessly.  And Moneyball whacked him for the grave offense of trading away a situational lefty reliever.

1 minute ago, GreenSox said:

It's Williams that the BP guys beat on mercilessly.  And Moneyball whacked him for the grave offense of trading away a situational lefty reliever.

I thought Moneyball dinged him for undervaluing Chad Bradford.

1 minute ago, JoeC said:

I thought Moneyball dinged him for undervaluing Chad Bradford.

Yes - my mistake.  Situational righty reliever.  And he got a starting catcher, such as he was, out of the deal.

13 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Chuck and Ryan McGuffey talk about the trade.

Highlights:

Vaughn looked at Burger and said Lee had power like him.

Chuck talked to a minor league scout, probably one of the Sox ,so take this with a massive grain of salt.

He said that Cuero and Lee both could be All Star catchers.  But interesting how he was pretty high on both of them.

My own opinion is that the returns were decent for guys who were pretty worthless. I normally think its not a great idea to target catchers so smart organization really don't care much about giving them up. Hard to find good defensive catchers who can hit and they take much longer to find offense with the amount of time it takes to learn defense.

That being said the whole Sox catching situation is bleak. Might see both Lee and Hackenburg next year along with Perez. That's a lot of youth back there. But it will be competitive at least.

A fellow poster made a great point about the Sox bleak reality of our catchers in the minors. He said this might be a good time right now, if Jerry allowed good money to be spent on bringing in ex-great defensive catchers to work with all the catchers in the farm system during the off-season and spring training. 

17 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

I just think if KW was driving the bus on these deals, it would be an easy leak for a Rosenthal or Morosi.

These Kenny or Hahn posts are extremely myopic.  Lots of people involved in this stuff  and many of them are specialists on minor league players whether its Getz, Haber, Kenny Williams , Jr, Mike Shirley and various scouts for the areas once names starting being bandied about. IDC who facilitated it as long as the others involved are competent . But it's the Sox. They don't exactly roll with cream of the crop evaluators.

Soxtalk rule #27

If you like the move, you credit your favorite front office person. If you dislike the move, you blame the front office guy you dislike the most. 

On 7/29/2023 at 10:21 AM, GreenSox said:

Yes - my mistake.  Situational righty reliever.  And he got a starting catcher, such as he was, out of the deal.

Wasn’t a situational reliever - they chided him for not recognizing the value that they held in Bradford. He was a legitimate reliever, and they chided the Sox for failing to look beyond his unconventional delivery.

So they chided the Sox for being stuck in the pre-analytical mindset and being behind the times. Chad Bradford was the example.