4 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

You left out Hahn watching a 63 win season and then immediately extending Ventura afterwards. I believe they finished in 4th place the next 3 seasons.

I was too busy to follow the Sox closely then. Did he start with a 2-3 year deal Hahn extended after 2013?

Probably had to to stop Ventura from giving Hahn the keys and walking away, and or having him serve as a lame duck in 2014, not that he wasn't his entire tenure. 

Ricky has been their second best manager this millennium, beyond Ozzie's 2004-2008. My three favorites were Tanner, Torborg and Ricky, though thought Ozzie did a great job managing the pitching staff / going with starters longer than most in games. Bob Lemon did a good job as well, won a World Series a few months after leaving here mid-season in 1978.

Leyland and Espada turned down managerial spots here with no other managerial gig the following season. Can't blame either, nor the other quality baseball people who also rejected working for Mr. Loyalty over the decades.

Interesting postgame quote from Grifol to Merkin after tonight's farce:

“You're gonna have to go in there and ask them,” said Grifol on why the hitters did not adjust. “It's a good fastball, don't get me wrong. It moves and he commands it and he's good at what he does. But that's a better question for them.”

Pedro shouldn't even be given the rest of the season. Admit your mistake and fire him now. We're going to control both sides of the ball.  Last in baseball by a huge margin. This guy doesn't deserve another day as a major league manager.

This is an all time crap roster, Pedro stepped into a bad organization, with bad player leadership, and followed a manager who was battling health issues and wasn't taking an active role in building any culture.

We've watched their every move for years and didn't pick up in how bad things were internally. 

I'm fine with giving him a chance at year two. The team isn't going to be in the playoff hunt. The replacement we get will have less experience as a MLB manager than he has. 

I'm also fine with showing him the door. 

3 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Interesting postgame quote from Grifol to Merkin after tonight's farce:

“You're gonna have to go in there and ask them,” said Grifol on why the hitters did not adjust. “It's a good fastball, don't get me wrong. It moves and he commands it and he's good at what he does. But that's a better question for them.”

Gives them a chance to rehearse the answer before the coaches start asking those questions. Lol

46 minutes ago, Texsox said:

This is an all time crap roster, Pedro stepped into a bad organization, with bad player leadership, and followed a manager who was battling health issues and wasn't taking an active role in building any culture.

We've watched their every move for years and didn't pick up in how bad things were internally. 

I'm fine with giving him a chance at year two. The team isn't going to be in the playoff hunt. The replacement we get will have less experience as a MLB manager than he has. 

I'm also fine with showing him the door. 

Yep.

The Three White Sox Seasons with a Winning Percentage below .400 since the South Side Hitmen:

1. .383 62-100 2018 - Jerry Reinsdorf Owner, Rick Hahn GM, Ricky Renteria Manager
2. .389 63-99 2013 - Jerry Reinsdorf Owner, Rick Hahn GM, Robin Ventura Manager
3. .392 49-76 YTD 2023 - Jerry Reinsdorf Owner, Rick Hahn GM, Pedro Grifol Manager

 

Total Under .400 MLB Seasons since Jerry (1981- YTD 2023):

• Pre Jerry Expansion Teams
• Post Jerry Expansion Teams

1. 8: Detroit; Kansas City; Pittsburgh
2. 6: Baltimore; Miami; Minnesota
3. 5: Seattle; Tampa Bay
4. 4: San Diego; Texas
5. 3: Arizona; Chicago A. L.; Cincinnati; Cleveland; Houston; Washington
6. 2: Atlanta; Chicago N. L.; Colorado; New York N. L.; Oakland; San Francisco; Toronto
7. 1: Los Angeles N. L.; Milwaukee; Philadelphia
8. 0: Boston; Los Angeles A. L.; New York A. L.; Saint Louis

Total Under .400 Seasons By Division

1. 28: American League Central (1 Expansion Team)
2. 14: National League Central (1 Expansion Team)
3. 14: National League East (3 Expansion Teams)
4. 14: American League West (4 Expansion Teams)
5. 13: American League East (2 Expansion Teams)
6. 12: National League West (3 Expansion Teams)

6 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I was too busy to follow the Sox closely then. Did he start with a 2-3 year deal Hahn extended after 2013?

Probably had to to stop Ventura from giving Hahn the keys and walking away, and or having him serve as a lame duck in 2014, not that he wasn't his entire tenure. 

Ricky has been their second best manager this millennium, beyond Ozzie's 2004-2008. My three favorites were Tanner, Torborg and Ricky, though thought Ozzie did a great job managing the pitching staff / going with starters longer than most in games. Bob Lemon did a good job as well, won a World Series a few months after leaving here mid-season in 1978.

Leyland and Espada turned down managerial spots here with no other managerial gig the following season. Can't blame either, nor the other quality baseball people who also rejected working for Mr. Loyalty over the decades.

Ventura originally signed a 3 year deal. He did an excellent job in 2012, perhaps the best coaching job I’ve seen by a White Sox coach. They looked crisp and practiced. Things I have never seen a white Sox team do, like hitting a cutoff man reliably or knowing how to execute a rundown properly, they did them all well. This was the only reason other than Sale and Quintana that they remained competitive that year.

Apparently management wanted to extend him at that point, but Ventura said no since Hahn was new, he wanted to make sure they were comfortable working together for a season first.

2013 was one of the worst coaching jobs I’ve ever seen. They came out of spring training looking like they’d never practiced a fielding drill. I spent half the season posting the “circus music” because it summed up their play on defense. There was a day in May where he had them all out on the field before a game doing spring training fielding drills, probably because Ventura slept through spring training so they forgot to do them. They sold a few players at the deadline and wound up 63-99, drafting third. 

Then Hahn gave Ventura his 3 year extension.

Im not sure he woke up until Sale was using scissors. It was probably a good nap.

Just have to flush these losses and prepare to kick their ass next game. Going to control both sides of the ball. 

 

Pedro is a bigger bullshitter than Hahn.

Edited August 22, 20232 yr by Dick Allen

2 hours ago, Texsox said:

Gives them a chance to rehearse the answer before the coaches start asking those questions. Lol

Too bad there is no Cuban video to watch. 

42 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Ventura originally signed a 3 year deal. He did an excellent job in 2012, perhaps the best coaching job I’ve seen by a White Sox coach. They looked crisp and practiced. Things I have never seen a white Sox team do, like hitting a cutoff man reliably or knowing how to execute a rundown properly, they did them all well. This was the only reason other than Sale and Quintana that they remained competitive that year.

Apparently management wanted to extend him at that point, but Ventura said no since Hahn was new, he wanted to make sure they were comfortable working together for a season first.

2013 was one of the worst coaching jobs I’ve ever seen. They came out of spring training looking like they’d never practiced a fielding drill. I spent half the season posting the “circus music” because it summed up their play on defense. There was a day in May where he had them all out on the field before a game doing spring training fielding drills, probably because Ventura slept through spring training so they forgot to do them. They sold a few players at the deadline and wound up 63-99, drafting third. 

Then Hahn gave Ventura his 3 year extension.

Im not sure he woke up until Sale was using scissors. It was probably a good nap.

Thanks. Wonder if Jerry and/or Kenny were pushing for an ex-Sox star manager to push ticket sales and interest. Do recall reading Kenny asking Paul Konerko to serve as player manager, but he turned them down.

To me, Rick and Robin both should have been gone after not being able to handle the Drake La Roche situation, running to Kenny to deal with it. Should have had a new EVP after 2016 and let them rebuild the organization.

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2023/08/22/mariners-white-sox-luis-castillo-47-straight-fastballs-fans-roast-chicago

Aaron Boone will be available soon. 

5 hours ago, shago said:

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2023/08/22/mariners-white-sox-luis-castillo-47-straight-fastballs-fans-roast-chicago

Glad this was posted. Seems like something the players, coaching staff, anybody in the f#*king dugout would pick out and jump on if anyone was paying attention. 

 

25 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

 

No way he can return 

13 minutes ago, Soxfest said:

No way he can return 

This should be up to the new GM. It's entirely possible that a new GM may not want to immediately conduct a coaching search. They have the right to do so and let things stabilize first before doing so, and I won't be mad. There's no coach who fixes the White Sox in 2024, if a GM wants to get their people and system in place elsewhere, fine, worry about a coaching search in October 2024 once you have time to prepare. 

Pretty much a given now

Pedro Grifol has been a complete trainwreck.  He is not ready for the big lights and quite frankly probably won't ever be.

 

Time to bring in someone who has been there and done that.

23 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

This should be up to the new GM. It's entirely possible that a new GM may not want to immediately conduct a coaching search. They have the right to do so and let things stabilize first before doing so, and I won't be mad. There's no coach who fixes the White Sox in 2024, if a GM wants to get their people and system in place elsewhere, fine, worry about a coaching search in October 2024 once you have time to prepare. 

100% agree. There are so many player holes to deal with, scouting, etc that the manager thing can wait. Plus this was such a trainwreck before he got here I don't mind giving him a second year. 

I just noticed I haven’t comment on this thread. Yeah for sure. Fire him.  Inspired by Jay Cuda, here’s a decision tree/bit of BASIC: If “works for White Sox,” then “Fire.”

27 minutes ago, Texsox said:

100% agree. There are so many player holes to deal with, scouting, etc that the manager thing can wait. Plus this was such a trainwreck before he got here I don't mind giving him a second year. 

just to add this, if a new GM decides they are cleaning house, they can clean house at their discretion as well.

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

just to add this, if a new GM decides they are cleaning house, they can clean house at their discretion as well.

Was going to say that bringing back Grifol sinks attendance even further for 2024, but nothing short of signing Ohtani or Theo Epstein would turn that steaming locomotive around.

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Was going to say that bringing back Grifol sinks attendance even further for 2024, but nothing short of signing Ohtani or Theo Epstein would turn that steaming locomotive around.

No one is buying tickets because they replaced Grifol with Joe Espada, let alone some other unknown.  This is just dumb.

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

No one is buying tickets because they replaced Grifol with Joe Espada, let alone some other unknown.  This is just dumb.

I agree with the tickets part, but a James Click / Joe Espada or Jeff Luhnow / Joe Espada pairing would have been a major upgrade.

2 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I agree with the tickets part, but a James Click / Joe Espada or Jeff Luhnow / Joe Espada pairing would have been a major upgrade.

I agree. That doesn’t change my point at all, they do everything right and they will see results in ticket sales in 2026. There is no celebrity manager they can bring in who will magically make people come see a 90 plus loss team next year.