I have slept on the trade.. And I feel the same way. Love Thorpe, Zavala and Iniarte are interesting. I still would have held until the deadline with this offer. Maybe theyre hoping Wilson is a dude and can have a strong half and then they deal him for a Berroa/Deloach type return like Santos.. Theoretically, doing that would make it Cease for Thorpe, Zavala, Iriarte, Berroa and Deloach.. Which is a much more palatable quantity trade.

12 hours ago, fathom said:

I just don’t get how you value someone like Thorpe this much, but give up on Mena just to try and fill a bad roster.

I'm just catching up on this thread but think the ability to consistently throw strikes is what makes Thorpe a prospect.  

He sounds like Giolito to me with less fastball speed but more consistency on throwing the change where he wants.

 

 

7 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Is Jerry really going to want to watch horseshit baseball the last few years of his life?  I don't expect the Sox to become free spending, but they have like $50M committed to 2025 payroll.  They can spend a ton of $ without even coming close to the previous payroll highs in 21-23. 

Yes.  He cares about money more than winning.  He only wants to win his way, by spending what he thinks is appropriate.

After reading some more stuff this morning, I’m wondering if Getz might be planning to try to stretch Wilson out to start. 

So I missed the s%*# show yesterday but I was at Rosatis when the news broke. Was so tempted to log on to see if the dumbass Baltimore fan showed up and after reading the last few pages it was probably a good idea I didn't log on. 

Just now, Baron said:

So I missed the s%*# show yesterday but I was at Rosatis when the news broke. Was so tempted to log on to see if the dumbass Baltimore fan showed up and after reading the last few pages it was probably a good idea I didn't log on. 

You would be correct.  Sport Guy made an appearance to s%*# in everyone.

1 minute ago, Eminor3rd said:

After reading some more stuff this morning, I’m wondering if Getz might be planning to try to stretch Wilson out to start. 

I think he will either be the closer or a very high leverage reliever.

2 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

After reading some more stuff this morning, I’m wondering if Getz might be planning to try to stretch Wilson out to start. 

Elaborate please.

3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

You would be correct.  Sport Guy made an appearance to s%*# in everyone.

I was a few drinks down and would have been less than nice responding lol. But some posters on here echoed how I felt so I appreciate that. 

12 hours ago, fathom said:

I just don’t get how you value someone like Thorpe this much, but give up on Mena just to try and fill a bad roster.

Because this organization has no fucking idea what they are doing, ever.

14 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Is Jerry really going to want to watch horseshit baseball the last few years of his life?  I don't expect the Sox to become free spending, but they have like $50M committed to 2025 payroll.  They can spend a ton of $ without even coming close to the previous payroll highs in 21-23. 

Yeah, Jerry isn’t going spend LaRussa money right off the bat, but zero reason this team can’t push to ~$150M pretty quickly.  I believe we’re around $120M or so this year with dead money & deferrals.  I don’t see it going lower than that at  a minimum, which would result in substantial payroll space next offseason.

The hope in my mind is with a young cheap rotation built around Nastrini, Thorpe, Eder, Cannon, Iriarte and possibly Crochet we can spend some pretty large dollars on the offense.  There are some interesting free agents that I think would be within the reach of Jerry’s wallet.  It would require unprecedented commitments from him, but nothing overly crazy that seems impossible.

46 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

You didn;t mention the pitching staff at all. Wonder why lol. 

To be fair, most of the pitchers they lost - despite being well known names - were somewhere between OK to absolutely terrible last season.  

17 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Yes.  He cares about money more than winning.  He only wants to win his way, by spending what he thinks is appropriate.

So the Sox are going to go from a top 10 spending team last 2-3 seasons to the Oakland A's in Jerry's twilight years?  Because that's basically what you're insinuating if JR isn't going to allow Getz to spend any money the next two offseasons. 

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yeah, Jerry isn’t going spend LaRussa money right off the bat, but zero reason this team can’t push to ~$150M pretty quickly.  I believe we’re around $120M or so this year with dead money & deferrals.  I don’t see it going lower than that at  a minimum, which would result in substantial payroll space next offseason.

The hope in my mind is with a young cheap rotation built around Nastrini, Thorpe, Eder, Cannon, Iriarte and possibly Crochet we can spend some pretty large dollars on the offense.  There are some interesting free agents that I think would be within the reach of Jerry’s wallet.  It would require unprecedented commitments from him, but nothing overly crazy that seems impossible.

Spotrac has them at $125 million to fill out a roster, but that's also without guys like Pillar, Moustakas, so it will probably go over $130 million when you add in those guys and a few people shuttle back and forth to the IL. Possible some could be traded off of that early in the year.

Will they spend less than that next year? Reinsdorf has complained about losing money in 2020, and then supported extra high payrolls in 2022-2023 with teams that had declining fan support. Is it unbelievable that he would try to do some profit-taking next year with an extra low payroll? We will see.

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Spotrac has them at $125 million to fill out a roster, but that's also without guys like Pillar, Moustakas, so it will probably go over $130 million when you add in those guys and a few people shuttle back and forth to the IL. Possible some could be traded off of that early in the year.

Will they spend less than that next year? Reinsdorf has complained about losing money in 2020, and then supported extra high payrolls in 2022-2023 with teams that had declining fan support. Is it unbelievable that he would try to do some profit-taking next year with an extra low payroll? We will see.

I can’t see him going down when this season is a complete lost cause and he’s letting Getz go out and sign cheap veterans to plug holes when there are even cheaper minor league options available if money were an issue.  I’d expect a payroll somewhere in the $130M to $150M range next year since I believe Jerry wants to win as quickly as possible and ideally by 2026 at the latest.

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I can’t see him going down when this season is a complete lost cause and he’s letting Getz go out and sign cheap veterans to plug holes when there are even cheaper minor league options available if money were an issue.  I’d expect a payroll somewhere in the $130M to $150M range next year since I believe Jerry wants to win as quickly as possible and ideally by 2026 at the latest.

Jerry wants to win, but only on his terms, which means not spending money on talent or development. A nearly impossible task.

I don't mind this trade at all.  We didn't get a super high end guy but it seems fair.  

Everyone was saying 2 top 100 guys plus a lotto ticket seemed reasonable.  They ended up with one guy who is a definite top 100 guy and two borderline top 100 guys plus a reliever they can flip in a few months.  To me, that feels equivalent.  Kind of like a hybrid between a quality and quantity trade. 

It sounds like its entirely possible that all 3 guys end up being top 100 in near future... and that isn't even counting what you get from Wilson.  

If they got Kjersted, Ortiz, and a lotto ticket in December everyone would have been content (including myself).   From all accounts that deal was never possible.  I kind of prefer what they ultimately got... at the very least, its a wash.  That deal had the risk of being being two 26 year old who end up as a 1b and a utility player.  Even though we don't have anyone coming back as highly rated as Kjersted, I think this deal is more interesting.  

I cant remember a time that the team had so many viable SP options.  Usually they have a few high ceiling prospects and 4 other dudes.  There's like 15-18 guys I can see being in the rotation in the next 2 years (although not a ton of ace potential guys). 

Would I have preferred a highly touted can't miss LH slugger who is a lock to stick in the corner OF?  Yeah.  But  I can't understand anyone saying they will be bad for 4-5 years in this thread and on twitter.  A large segment of the fanbase is just pouting because the Hahn rebuild failed.  Its over.  That pisses me off too... But move on.  They have a lot of money off the books (or coming off the books) and the bones are there for the next good team in about a year and a half.  

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I can’t see him going down when this season is a complete lost cause and he’s letting Getz go out and sign cheap veterans to plug holes when there are even cheaper minor league options available if money were an issue.  I’d expect a payroll somewhere in the $130M to $150M range next year since I believe Jerry wants to win as quickly as possible and ideally by 2026 at the latest.

Signing veterans that waste money in rebuilding years and shortly thereafter complaining about payroll limits is definitely a White Sox thing. But again, we'll see, I'm not going to guess what they will do next offseason, too many variables. Attendance is going to be a disaster this season. Their needs next offseason are a big function of how effective their coaches and development are this year, with health on top of that. Definitely possible to see them cutting payroll further, signing more vetz, and having a $90 million payroll next year just as much as it is to see this being their payroll low.

16 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

So the Sox are going to go from a top 10 spending team last 2-3 seasons to the Oakland A's in Jerry's twilight years?  Because that's basically what you're insinuating if JR isn't going to allow Getz to spend any money the next two offseasons. 

But what does he spend it on? 

There is a LONG track record of the Sox not acquiring premiere FA's in the market, but instead spending on that "2nd wave" of players. If all this open payroll means more Benintendi's, then it's gonna be more of the same.  

Just now, Tony said:

But what does he spend it on? 

There is a LONG track record of the Sox not acquiring premiere FA's in the market, but instead spending on that "2nd wave" of players. If all this open payroll means more Benintendi's, then it's gonna be more of the same.  

Yeah honestly, I'd rather them just go super cheap than waste money on the Benintendis and Keuchels of baseball. 

14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Spotrac has them at $125 million to fill out a roster, but that's also without guys like Pillar, Moustakas, so it will probably go over $130 million when you add in those guys and a few people shuttle back and forth to the IL. Possible some could be traded off of that early in the year.

Will they spend less than that next year? Reinsdorf has complained about losing money in 2020, and then supported extra high payrolls in 2022-2023 with teams that had declining fan support. Is it unbelievable that he would try to do some profit-taking next year with an extra low payroll? We will see.

Sox have $122.35M 2024 payroll including the following:

• All guaranteed contracts
• $8M dead money to Garcia, Hendriks and Abreu
• Pillar ($3M) & Mendick (MLB min) making the roster

If Mous makes it, it'll be ~$123.5M. 

49 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

And they were replaced with more MLB proven suck.  All they have is more potential than the guys you mentioned, but no track records of success.

Also, one of the guys you mentioned (Kopech) is still in the rotation, and he hasn’t shown any signs of improving as a starting pitcher.

Flexen, Soroka and Fedde do have track records of success. It's weird that you're not one of the guys who argued that Dylan Cease will never be better than a 4.5 ERA pitcher, because that is what he just was. 

I'm not arguing that we will have 5 Cy Young competitors in the rotation. But it's not the level of badness the dour here try to pretend it's going to be. 

2 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

Yeah honestly, I'd rather them just go super cheap than waste money on the Benintendis and Keuchels of baseball. 

I understand not wanting to go long term on those guys, but on 1-2 year deals, it’s fine. Plus you need to add guys to potentially flip.

2 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I understand not wanting to go long term on those guys, but on 1-2 year deals, it’s fine. Plus you need to add guys to potentially flip.

True, but no 3-5 year deals like Keuchel and Benintendi

2 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Flexen, Soroka and Fedde do have track records of success. It's weird that you're not one of the guys who argued that Dylan Cease will never be better than a 4.5 ERA pitcher, because that is what he just was. 

I'm not arguing that we will have 5 Cy Young competitors in the rotation. But it's not the level of badness the dour here try to pretend it's going to be. 

Flexen has had more bad years than good.  Soroka has been ruined by injury.  Fedde has one year of success in a different league and a 5.40 ERA in the MLB.  Where are you seeing this track record of success for these guys?