Chicago White Sox Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 Just now, Sports Guy said: The other thing is, a deal of like Westburg, Beavers, Povich and maybe another player is going to be the best deal on the table. You guys keep saying “we aren’t including the top guys”. First of all, i do agree that Cowser or Kjerstad should be on the table but if they want to keep them and trade out of the depth of the IF, I’m thinking that the deal won’t be beat. If it’s the best deal, why trade more? A package of Jones + Hampton + something else is probably better and I’m not yet convinced that isn’t eventually on the table this off-season. As for your second point…you still don’t have the leverage here. Even if it’s the best deal right now, it doesn’t mean it will be the best deal come July. Getz can wait, take on some risk, and hope for a better return at the deadline. The price would likely go up with a strong 1H performance from Cease as a wider array of big and small market teams would be in the mix. The question is do you guys really want to go into the season with the status quo and then hope prices for top end SP are somehow cheaper come July? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 The Orioles will trade Ryan Ripken, final offer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 33 minutes ago, Quin said: If Bradfield isn't on the table, then every non-Joey Ortiz — who is old enough to go by Joseph — member of the Orioles top 8 is off the table. Yeah, why their fans would think bradfield wouldn’t be on the table is puzzling 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 15 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: The other thing is, a deal of like Westburg, Beavers, Povich and maybe another player is going to be the best deal on the table. You guys keep saying “we aren’t including the top guys”. First of all, i do agree that Cowser or Kjerstad should be on the table but if they want to keep them and trade out of the depth of the IF, I’m thinking that the deal won’t be beat. If it’s the best deal, why trade more? If that’s their offer, then you simply hold cease until the trade deadline. That offer is doo doo 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: A package of Jones + Hampton + something else is probably better and I’m not yet convinced that isn’t eventually on the table this off-season. As for your second point…you still don’t have the leverage here. Even if it’s the best deal right now, it doesn’t mean it will be the best deal come July. Getz can wait, take on some risk, and hope for a better return at the deadline. The price would likely go up with a strong 1H performance from Cease as a wider array of big and small market teams would be in the mix. The question is do you guys really want to go into the season with the status quo and then hope prices for top end SP are somehow cheaper come July? Jones isn’t on the table apparently. Your hopes and dreams that he is doesn’t make it so. If Getz wants to risk Cease for another several months, have at it. It’s a decision that could pay off but it’s also a huge potential problem but hey, have at it if that’s the risk you want to take. Elias won’t bid against himself because he’s not a moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: Westburg has very similar upside to those guys and plays a more premium position. Kjerstad is a left handed savage. Westburg is not. So no they don't have similar upside. IMO...you are tough to figure out....sometimes you engage people in legit discussion and sometimes you say objectively stupid s%*# and then I get the sense that you've just been trolling the whole time. Edited January 14 by SoCalChiSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: Is this a question that is supposed to advance any conversation? How do you know Getz won’t trade Cease for Mountcastle, Wagner and Wells? Is he on your speed dial? You are the one claiming to know who is untouchable and who isn’t. I am not making these claims, or saying that I know whom Getz would or wouldn’t accept back in a trade. Edited January 14 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 8 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: Yeah, why their fans would think bradfield wouldn’t be on the table is puzzling He should be the starting CFer on OF 2025 and unless Fabian takes a turn offensively, they have no one else. It’s not a real difficult concept to figure out. It’s a high end, premium position and the Os don’t have a long term person for it. He was regarded by some to be a top 10 draft prospect. BA just said he has 80 speed and 80 defense but he has to show power to be an actual starting MLb player. It’s just highly unlikely they would look to trade a guy like that this fast. Just not an Elias thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: Jones isn’t on the table apparently. Your hopes and dreams that he is doesn’t make it so. If Getz wants to risk Cease for another several months, have at it. It’s a decision that could pay off but it’s also a huge potential problem but hey, have at it if that’s the risk you want to take. Elias won’t bid against himself because he’s not a moron. That article about the Tampa meeting made it seem like eventually when push comes to shove he will be on the table "they won't give up Dominguez and they don't want to give up Jones" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just now, SoCalChiSox said: Hjerstad is a left handed savage. Westburg is not. So no they don't have similar upside. IMO...you are tough to figure out....sometimes you engage people in legit discussion and sometimes you say objectively stupid s%*# and then I get the sense that you've just been trolling the whole time. The idea that you aren’t taking defense, position, speed and baserunning into account in terms of overall value is hilarious. Kjerstad has a lot to like. He moves well for a guy his size. He has huge power potential. He has a chance to be a high average/high OBP guy but his value is essentially a DH/Corner player. Hell, there was even some thought that the strong arm he had in Arkansas was worse last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: He should be the starting CFer on OF 2025 and unless Fabian takes a turn offensively, they have no one else. It’s not a real difficult concept to figure out. It’s a high end, premium position and the Os don’t have a long term person for it. He was regarded by some to be a top 10 draft prospect. BA just said he has 80 speed and 80 defense but he has to show power to be an actual starting MLb player. It’s just highly unlikely they would look to trade a guy like that this fast. Just not an Elias thing to do. He literally has 79 at bats in the minors. Banking on him as a starting CF next year is insane 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 4 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: You are the one claiming to know who is untouchable and who isn’t. I am not making these claims. I have never once said someone untouchable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just now, Sports Guy said: I have never once said someone untouchable. But you said he wouldn’t/shouldn’t be on the table Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just now, Sports Guy said: I have never once said someone untouchable. Okay — “not going to be traded for Cease.” 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: He literally has 79 at bats in the minors. Banking on him as a starting CF next year is insane This guy is a dope, I don’t know why people continue to entertain him. 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: The idea that you aren’t taking defense, position, speed and baserunning into account in terms of overall value is hilarious. Kjerstad has a lot to like. He moves well for a guy his size. He has huge power potential. He has a chance to be a high average/high OBP guy but his value is essentially a DH/Corner player. Hell, there was even some thought that the strong arm he had in Arkansas was worse last year. The part you are skipping over is the one thing the Sox don't have really anywhere is left handed power. This is something they have been missing for years. So in this deal, that is a premium. The value of the prospects in this is not the same it might be in other deals. The value of a prospect differs as the market and deal dictates. It is not an absolute value. This will help clubs in some situations and hurt it in others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 4 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: He literally has 79 at bats in the minors. Banking on him as a starting CF next year is insane He’s an advanced college bat from arguably the best baseball school and conference in the question. Most scouts believe could be a ML asset right now just because of his speed and and defense. Our local media even thought he could be a playoff call up and be like a Terrence Gore type guy. He either will be showing signs that he is and can be the everyday CFer by the end of this season or he will likely not be a player good enough to start in the majors. He should end the year in AAA if his bat advances. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, ptatc said: The part you are skipping over is the one thing the Sox don't have really anywhere is left handed power. This is something they have been missing for years. So in this deal, that is a premium. The value of the prospects in this is not the same it might be in other deals. The value of a prospect differs as the market and deal dictates. It is not an absolute value. This will help clubs in some situations and hurt it in others. You should apply that same logic to Cease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwest Sider Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 48 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: Btw, no one is untouchable and many of these guys would be on the table for some players…but Cease isn’t one of them for many of these guys. This is a joke. You have a lot of good takes but this is not one of them. You assign way too much value to prospects and completely forget how valuable ANY pitching is, especially pitching with more than 1 year of control that has elite upside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: He’s an advanced college bat from arguably the best baseball school and conference in the question. Most scouts believe could be a ML asset right now just because of his speed and and defense. Our local media even thought he could be a playoff call up and be like a Terrence Gore type guy. He either will be showing signs that he is and can be the everyday CFer by the end of this season or he will likely not be a player good enough to start in the majors. He should end the year in AAA if his bat advances. Andrew Vaughn was the best college hitter in his draft class. We lucky Sox fans have learned that it doesn’t always translate to the MLB. Edited January 14 by WhiteSox2023 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwest Sider Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 24 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: Jones isn’t on the table apparently. Your hopes and dreams that he is doesn’t make it so. If Getz wants to risk Cease for another several months, have at it. It’s a decision that could pay off but it’s also a huge potential problem but hey, have at it if that’s the risk you want to take. Elias won’t bid against himself because he’s not a moron. There's a price in place and the price is the price. It's not a matter of bidding against yourself. It's a matter of pay the (what seems like a pretty reasonable) price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just now, Southwest Sider said: This is a joke. You have a lot of good takes but this is not one of them. You assign way too much value to prospects and completely forget how valuable ANY pitching is, especially pitching with more than 1 year of control that has elite upside. I’m not forgetting anything. I would trade guys that we are discussing that Elias may not be willing to move. I would trade Cowser or Kjerstad although Westburg has the same value. But you guys are placing a higher value on Cease than anyone in MLB is, outside of Getz. I’m simply saying, I’m not willing to pay way more than what the market is valuing him at. Your desire to get more for him because “you have to” doesn’t make him a more valuable player. If Getz is fine with the risk of keeping him for the regular season, so be it. I suspect that’s what happens. I also suspect Elias will fail on what he needs to accomplish this offseason. As an Os fan, that bothers me but 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwest Sider Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: I have never once said someone untouchable. But you say your prospects are untouchable for Cease, which makes no sense. He's one of the best players someone could pick up for their team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Andrew Vaughn was the best college hitter in his draft class. We lucky Sox fans have learned that it doesn’t always translate to the MLB. No offense but I don’t really care what happened in your terrible organization. I watched the Os for years fail players. They are awful at developing, didn’t have the right tools, the right scouts, the right anything. But sure, guys fail all the time. 50% of the first round fails. Bradfield, if he doesn’t gain some power, will fail to be a ML starter. That’s the way it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwest Sider Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, Sports Guy said: I’m not forgetting anything. I would trade guys that we are discussing that Elias may not be willing to move. I would trade Cowser or Kjerstad although Westburg has the same value. But you guys are placing a higher value on Cease than anyone in MLB is, outside of Getz. I’m simply saying, I’m not willing to pay way more than what the market is valuing him at. Your desire to get more for him because “you have to” doesn’t make him a more valuable player. If Getz is fine with the risk of keeping him for the regular season, so be it. I suspect that’s what happens. I also suspect Elias will fail on what he needs to accomplish this offseason. As an Os fan, that bothers me but 🤷♂️ So Elias will have failed the mission because he didn't want to meet Getz's ask. It is what it is. If he pays the price no one should ridicule him for bidding against himself. Getz knows what his price is and doesn't really care what "the market" says because the market is probably trying to get Cease on the cheap. His ask doesn't seem unreasonable either. It's just the O's place a ton of value on their prospects, for good reason. This just isn't a match up that will work right now unless Elias gets serious about making a deal. The Sox need a better deal more than they need to deal Cease. Hopefully the O's are in the middle of a race by the TDL and ready to make a deal then because they still need pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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