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Wacha to KC


fathom
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13 minutes ago, fathom said:

Quite sad how in the worst division in baseball, the Sox will clearly have the least amount of talent

And the least amount of interest to get better 

The least amount of interest to pay someone, anyone who can play baseball

WE SUCK!!!

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3 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

On paper Royals are a better team than the Sox.

All kind of depends which direction Witt Jr goes from here...and whether he wants security from an extension or to stay to be face of franchise with a new stadium eventually.

And pitching pitching pitching the story with this franchise.  Singer has been so inconsistent, but they have Ragans now too.

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7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

All kind of depends which direction Witt Jr goes from here...and whether he wants security from an extension or to stay to be face of franchise with a new stadium eventually.

And pitching pitching pitching the story with this franchise.  Singer has been so inconsistent, but they have Ragans now too.

There is a new park with $2 billion in real estate development slated for 2028, the first season Witt is eligible for FA, so timing wise it works for the Royals.

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3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Just how much can KC improve???...written before Renfroe and Wacha moves.

Posits that .500 is a lot easier to do than 100+ losses unless you're tanking or just totally inept.

https://www.royalsreview.com/2023/12/15/24002208/just-how-much-can-the-royals-improve-you-might-be-surprised

Oakland and Colorado are the only two teams with current higher odds to win the World Series. Based on the odds, the National League Central appears to be the widest division in terms of four teams relatively close to win it.

Besides prohibitive favorite Los Angeles, the Yankees have the widest gap vs. the second highest division opponent. The race for 2nd place in the NL West appears to be the closest at this time.

Fan Duel 2024 World Series Championship Odds

  • A. L. East 8.5/1  New York; 15/1 Baltimore; 16/1 Toronto; 31/1 Tampa Bay; 35/1 Boston
  • A. L. Central 22/1 Minnesota; 55/1 Cleveland; 60/1 Detroit; 110/1 Kansas City; 170/1 White Sox
  • A. L. West 9/1 Houston; 10/1 Texas; 18/1 Seattle; 100/1 Los Angeles; 250/1 Oakland
  • N. L. East 6.5/1 Atlanta; 10/1 Philadelphia; 25/1 New York; 65/1 Miami; 170/1 Washington
  • N. L. Central 30/1 Saint Louis; 38/1 Chicago; 45/1 Milwaukee; 50/1 Cincinnati; 100/1 Pittsburgh
  • N. L. West 4.6/1 Los Angeles; 35/1 Arizona; 38/1 San Diego; 40/1 San Francisco; 250/1 Colorado
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59 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Oakland and Colorado are the only two teams with current higher odds to win the World Series. Based on the odds, the National League Central appears to be the widest division in terms of four teams relatively close to win it.

Besides prohibitive favorite Los Angeles, the Yankees have the widest gap vs. the second highest division opponent. The race for 2nd place in the NL West appears to be the closest at this time.

Fan Duel 2024 World Series Championship Odds

  • A. L. East 8.5/1  New York; 15/1 Baltimore; 16/1 Toronto; 31/1 Tampa Bay; 35/1 Boston
  • A. L. Central 22/1 Minnesota; 55/1 Cleveland; 60/1 Detroit; 110/1 Kansas City; 170/1 White Sox
  • A. L. West 9/1 Houston; 10/1 Texas; 18/1 Seattle; 100/1 Los Angeles; 250/1 Oakland
  • N. L. East 6.5/1 Atlanta; 10/1 Philadelphia; 25/1 New York; 65/1 Miami; 170/1 Washington
  • N. L. Central 30/1 Saint Louis; 38/1 Chicago; 45/1 Milwaukee; 50/1 Cincinnati; 100/1 Pittsburgh
  • N. L. West 4.6/1 Los Angeles; 35/1 Arizona; 38/1 San Diego; 40/1 San Francisco; 250/1 Colorado

And the Washington Nationals...

Royals closer to Detroit and the Guardians than the White Sox.  And that's in the very worst division in baseball.

Cubs so far have lost Bellinger and Stroman, and not really punished all that much.

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One MLB writer pointing to CLE despite no major changes yet...but Royals and Tigers at least building hope and goodwill for fanbases.

 

 

4. Guardians
The Guards get a high ranking only because someone is definitely going to win the AL Central next season, even if the record isn’t pretty. The defending division-champion Twins, who were only an 87-75 team to begin with, are vulnerable after the loss of co-ace Sonny Gray, as well as Kenta Maeda and Pagán, in free agency. Elsewhere in the division, the White Sox are rebuilding and, while the Tigers and Royals have very interesting pieces and have already made some frisky moves on the Hot Stove, they also have plenty to prove.

So the safest bet to upend the Central -- for now, at least -- is the 2022 division-champion Guardians. Because even if they move Shane Bieber and/or closer Emmanuel Clase, a full season of health from Triston McKenzie would further stabilize a rotation that got exciting contributions from Tanner Bibee, Gavin Williams and Logan Allen last season. The Guards have Lake Erie-sized holes in their lineup and they also have a rookie manager in the dugout in Stephen Vogt. But it’s a low bar for entry in this division, and a competitive pitching staff gives Cleveland as good a chance of anybody to clear it.

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-teams-who-could-rebound-after-missing-2023-playoffs

Edited by caulfield12
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1 hour ago, The Grinder said:

We are guaranteed last place

Whats the worst W-L record in modern baseball?

 

1962 Mets I think  (40-120-1)....or one of those Orioles/Tigers teams

 

5. Baltimore Orioles (2021) 52-110
2. Baltimore Orioles (2018) 47-115
3. Houston Astros (2013) 51-111
1. Detroit Tigers (2003) 43-119
9. Houston Astros (2012) 55-107
4. Arizona Diamondbacks (2004) 51-111
10. Houston Astros (2011) 56-106
6. Arizona Diamondbacks (2021) 52-110
7. Baltimore Orioles (2019) 54-108
8. Washington Nationals (2022) 55-107
Edited by caulfield12
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17 minutes ago, The Grinder said:

We are guaranteed last place

Whats the worst W-L record in modern baseball?

The worst record for each team by era. The White Sox had three additional seasons worse than the 2023 team (1970, 1934 and 1931) not included below.

Future Tanking Targets

  • The Sox will need to win 54 games (.333) or less over 162 games to exceed their worst all time record during the Integrated MLB Era.
  • The Sox will need to win 42 games (.259) or less over 162 games to have the all time worst record across all A. L. teams in the Integrated MLB Era.
  • The Sox will need to win 40 games (.247) or less over 162 games to have the all time worst record across all teams in the Integrated MLB Era.

 

Integrated MLB Era (1947-2023) - American League - Worst Season By Team

  1. Detroit Tigers (1947-Current) .265 43-119 2003
  2. Baltimore Orioles (1954-Current) .290 47-115 2018
  3. Oakland Athletics (1968-Current) .309 50-112 2023
  4. Houston Astros (2013-Current) .315 51-111 2013
  5. Washington Senators (1947-1960) .325 50-104 1949
  6. Toronto Blue Jays (1977-Current) .327 53-109 1979
  7. Philadelphia Athletics (1947-1954) .331 51-103-2 1954
  8. Chicago White Sox (1947-Current) .336 51-101-2 1948
  9. Saint Louis Browns (1947-1953) .338 52-102 1951
  10. Kansas City Athletics (1955-1967) .339 52-102 1956
  11. Tampa Bay Devil Rays (1998-Current Rays.342 55-106 2002
  12. Kansas City Royals (1969-Current) .346 56-106 2005 & 2023
  13. Washington Senators (1961-1971) .346 56-106 1963
  14. Seattle Mariners (1977-Current) .350 56-104 1978
  15. Texas Rangers (1972-Current) .351 54-100 1972
  16. Cleveland Guardians (1947-Current) .352 57-105 1991
  17. Minnesota Twins (1961-Current) .364 59-103 2016
  18. Boston Red Sox (1947-Current) .383 62-100 1965
  19. Seattle Pilots (1969) .395 64-98-1 1969
  20. Milwaukee Brewers (1970-1997) .401 65-97-1 1970
  21. California Angels (1961-Current Los Angeles.406 65-95 1980
  22. New York Yankees (1947-Current) .414 67-95 1990

Integrated MLB Era (1947-2023) - National League - Worst Season By Team

  1. New York Mets (1962-Current) .250 40-120-1 1962
  2. Pittsburgh Pirates (1947-Current) .273 42-112-1 1952
  3. Philadelphia Phillies (1947-Current) .305 47-107-1 1961
  4. Arizona Diamondbacks (1998-Current) .315 51-111 2004
  5. San Diego Padres (1969-Current) .321 52-110 1969
  6. Montreal Expos (1969-2004) .321 52-110 1969
  7. Florida Marlins (1993-Current Miami.333 54-108 1998
  8. Atlanta (1966-Current) .338 54-106 1988
  9. Houston Astros (1962-2012) .340 55-107 2012
  10. Washington Nationals (2005-Current) .340 55-107 2022
  11. Milwaukee Brewers (1998-Current) .346 56-106 2002
  12. Chicago Cubs (1947-Current) .364 59-103 1962 & 1966 
  13. Colorado Rockies (1993-Current) .364 59-103 2023
  14. Cincinnati Reds (1947-Current) .377 61-101 1982
  15. San Francisco Giants (1958-Current) .383 62-100 1985
  16. Los Angeles Dodgers (1958-Current) .389 63-99 1992
  17. Boston (1947-1952) .418 64-89-2 1952
  18. Saint Louis Cardinals (1947-Current) .426 69-93 1978
  19. New York Giants (1947-1957) .435 67-87 1956
  20. Milwaukee (1953-1965) .519 84-78-1 1963
  21. Brooklyn Dodgers (1947-1957) .545 84-70 1948 & 1957 - 1948 includes a tie

Segregated Era (1901-1946) - American League - Worst Season By Team

  1. Philadelphia Athletics (1901-1946 Oakland) .235 36-117-1 1916
  2. Washington Senators (1901-1946 Minnesota Twins) .252 38-113-6 1904
  3. Saint Louis Browns (1902-1946 Baltimore Orioles) .279 43-111-2 1939
  4. Boston Red Sox (1901-1946) .279 43-111-0 1932
  5. Chicago White Sox (1901-1946) .325 49-102-1 1932
  6. New York Yankees (1903-1946) .329 50-102-1 1912
  7. Cleveland Naps (1901-1946 Guardians.333 51-102-4 1914
  8. Milwaukee Brewers (1901 Baltimore Orioles.350 48-89-2 1901
  9. Baltimore Orioles (1901-1902 Folded) .362 50-88-3 1902
  10. Detroit Tigers (1901-1946) .385 52-83-2 1902

Segregated Era (1901-1946) - National League  - Worst Season By Team

  1. Boston (1901-1946 Atlanta.248 38-115-0 1935
  2. Philadelphia Phils (1901-1946 Phillies.278 42-109 1942
  3. Saint Louis Cardinals (1901-1946) .314 43-94-2 1903
  4. Brooklyn Superbas (1901-1946 Dodgers) .316 48-104-3 1905
  5. Pittsburgh Pirates (1901-1946) .331 51-103-3 1917
  6. Cincinnati Reds (1901-1946) .344 52-99-1 1934
  7. New York Giants (1901-1946) .353 48-88-5 1902
  8. Chicago Orphans (1901-1946 Cubs.381 53-86-1 1901

Pre Modern Era (1876-1900) - National League - Worst Season By Team

 

  1. Cleveland Spiders (1889-1899) .130 20-134-0 1899
  2. Cincinnati Reds (1876-1879) .138 9-56-0 1876
  3. Allegheny City (1887-1890) .169 23-113-2 1890
  4. Philadelphia (1883-1900 Phillies.173 17-81-1 1883
  5. Worcester Ruby Legs (1880-1882) .214 18-66-0 1882
  6. Saint Louis Browns (1892-1900 Cardinals.221 29-102-2 1897
  7. Washington Nationals (1886-1889) .233 28-92-5 1886
  8. Philadelphia Athletic (1876) .237 14-45-1 1876
  9. Kansas City Cowboys (1886) .248 30-91-5 1886
  10. Detroit Wolverines (1881-1888) .250 28-84-2 1884
  11. Milwaukee Grays (1878) .250 15-45-1 1878
  12. Troy Trojans (1879-1882) .253 19-56-2 1879
  13. Cincinnati Stars (1880) .263 21-59-3 1880
  14. Louisville Colonels (1892-1899) .307 35-96-2 1895
  15. Buffalo Bisons (1879-1885) .293 24-58-3 1880
  16. Washington Senators (1892-1899) .310 40-89-1 1893
  17. Baltimore Orioles (1892-1899) .313 46-101-5 1892
  18. Indianapolis Hoosiers (1887-1889) .294 37-89-1 1887
  19. Cleveland Blues (1879-1884) .313 35-77-1 1884
  20. Syracuse Stars (1879) .314 22-48-1 1879
  21. Saint Louis Maroons (1885-1886) .333 36-72-3 1885
  22. Brooklyn Grooms (1890-1900 Los Angeles Dodgers) .372 54-91-4 1898
  23. New York Mutuals (1876) .375 21-35-1 1876
  24. New York Giants (1883-1900 San Francisco Giants) .400 60-90-3 1899
  25. Indianapolis Blues (1878) .400 24-36-3 1878
  26. Pittsburgh (1891-1900 Pirates.407 55-80-2 1891
  27. Cincinnati Reds (1890-1900 Reds.409 56-81-1 1891
  28. Boston (1876-1900 Atlanta) .411 46-66-1 1885
  29. Chicago Colts (1876-1900 Chicago Cubs.432 57-75-5 1894
  30. Louisville Grays (1876-1877) .455 30-36-3 1876
  31. Saint Louis Brown Stockings (1876-1877) .467 28-32-0 1877
  32. Providence Grays (1878-1885) .482 53-57-0 1885
  33. Hartfords of Brooklyn (1876-1877) .534 31-27-2 1877

 

12 Defunct Leagues & Associated Team / Season Records Excluded:

  • National Association (1871-1875)
  • American Association (1882-1891)
  • Union Association (1884)
  • Players League (1890)
  • Federal League (1914-1915)
  • Negro National League (1920-1931)
  • Eastern Colored League (1923-1928)
  • American Negro League (1929)
  • East-West League (1932)
  • Negro Southern League (1932)
  • Negro National League II (1933-1948)
  • Negro American League (1937-1948)
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18 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The worst record for each team by era. The White Sox had three additional seasons worse than the 2023 team (1970, 1934 and 1931) not included below.

Future Tanking Targets

  • The Sox will need to win 54 games (.333) or less over 162 games to exceed their worst all time record during the Integrated MLB Era.
  • The Sox will need to win 42 games (.259) or less over 162 games to have the all time worst record across all A. L. teams in the Integrated MLB Era.
  • The Sox will need to win 40 games (.247) or less over 162 games to have the all time worst record across all teams in the Integrated MLB Era.

 

Integrated MLB Era (1947-2023) - American League - Worst Season By Team

  1. Detroit Tigers (1947-Current) .265 43-119 2003
  2. Baltimore Orioles (1954-Current) .290 47-115 2018
  3. Oakland Athletics (1968-Current) .309 50-112 2023
  4. Houston Astros (2013-Current) .315 51-111 2013
  5. Washington Senators (1947-1960) .325 50-104 1949
  6. Toronto Blue Jays (1977-Current) .327 53-109 1979
  7. Philadelphia Athletics (1947-1954) .331 51-103-2 1954
  8. Chicago White Sox (1947-Current) .336 51-101-2 1948
  9. Saint Louis Browns (1947-1953) .338 52-102 1951
  10. Kansas City Athletics (1955-1967) .339 52-102 1956
  11. Tampa Bay Devil Rays (1998-Current Rays.342 55-106 2002
  12. Kansas City Royals (1969-Current) .346 56-106 2005 & 2023
  13. Washington Senators (1961-1971) .346 56-106 1963
  14. Seattle Mariners (1977-Current) .350 56-104 1978
  15. Texas Rangers (1972-Current) .351 54-100 1972
  16. Cleveland Guardians (1947-Current) .352 57-105 1991
  17. Minnesota Twins (1961-Current) .364 59-103 2016
  18. Boston Red Sox (1947-Current) .383 62-100 1965
  19. Seattle Pilots (1969) .395 64-98-1 1969
  20. Milwaukee Brewers (1970-1997) .401 65-97-1 1970
  21. California Angels (1961-Current Los Angeles.406 65-95 1980
  22. New York Yankees (1947-Current) .414 67-95 1990

Integrated MLB Era (1947-2023) - National League - Worst Season By Team

  1. New York Mets (1962-Current) .250 40-120-1 1962
  2. Pittsburgh Pirates (1947-Current) .273 42-112-1 1952
  3. Philadelphia Phillies (1947-Current) .305 47-107-1 1961
  4. Arizona Diamondbacks (1998-Current) .315 51-111 2004
  5. San Diego Padres (1969-Current) .321 52-110 1969
  6. Montreal Expos (1969-2004) .321 52-110 1969
  7. Florida Marlins (1993-Current Miami.333 54-108 1998
  8. Atlanta (1966-Current) .338 54-106 1988
  9. Houston Astros (1962-2012) .340 55-107 2012
  10. Washington Nationals (2005-Current) .340 55-107 2022
  11. Milwaukee Brewers (1998-Current) .346 56-106 2002
  12. Chicago Cubs (1947-Current) .364 59-103 1962 & 1966 
  13. Colorado Rockies (1993-Current) .364 59-103 2023
  14. Cincinnati Reds (1947-Current) .377 61-101 1982
  15. San Francisco Giants (1958-Current) .383 62-100 1985
  16. Los Angeles Dodgers (1958-Current) .389 63-99 1992
  17. Boston (1947-1952) .418 64-89-2 1952
  18. Saint Louis Cardinals (1947-Current) .426 69-93 1978
  19. New York Giants (1947-1957) .435 67-87 1956
  20. Milwaukee (1953-1965) .519 84-78-1 1963
  21. Brooklyn Dodgers (1947-1957) .545 84-70 1948 & 1957 - 1948 includes a tie

Segregated Era (1901-1946) - American League - Worst Season By Team

  1. Philadelphia Athletics (1901-1946 Oakland) .235 36-117-1 1916
  2. Washington Senators (1901-1946 Minnesota Twins) .252 38-113-6 1904
  3. Saint Louis Browns (1902-1946 Baltimore Orioles) .279 43-111-2 1939
  4. Boston Red Sox (1901-1946) .279 43-111-0 1932
  5. Chicago White Sox (1901-1946) .325 49-102-1 1932
  6. New York Yankees (1903-1946) .329 50-102-1 1912
  7. Cleveland Naps (1901-1946 Guardians.333 51-102-4 1914
  8. Milwaukee Brewers (1901 Baltimore Orioles.350 48-89-2 1901
  9. Baltimore Orioles (1901-1902 Folded) .362 50-88-3 1902
  10. Detroit Tigers (1901-1946) .385 52-83-2 1902

Segregated Era (1901-1946) - National League  - Worst Season By Team

  1. Boston (1901-1946 Atlanta.248 38-115-0 1935
  2. Philadelphia Phils (1901-1946 Phillies.278 42-109 1942
  3. Saint Louis Cardinals (1901-1946) .314 43-94-2 1903
  4. Brooklyn Superbas (1901-1946 Dodgers) .316 48-104-3 1905
  5. Pittsburgh Pirates (1901-1946) .331 51-103-3 1917
  6. Cincinnati Reds (1901-1946) .344 52-99-1 1934
  7. New York Giants (1901-1946) .353 48-88-5 1902
  8. Chicago Orphans (1901-1946 Cubs.381 53-86-1 1901

Pre Modern Era (1876-1900) - National League - Worst Season By Team

 

  1. Cleveland Spiders (1889-1899) .130 20-134-0 1899
  2. Cincinnati Reds (1876-1879) .138 9-56-0 1876
  3. Allegheny City (1887-1890) .169 23-113-2 1890
  4. Philadelphia (1883-1900 Phillies.173 17-81-1 1883
  5. Worcester Ruby Legs (1880-1882) .214 18-66-0 1882
  6. Saint Louis Browns (1892-1900 Cardinals.221 29-102-2 1897
  7. Washington Nationals (1886-1889) .233 28-92-5 1886
  8. Philadelphia Athletic (1876) .237 14-45-1 1876
  9. Kansas City Cowboys (1886) .248 30-91-5 1886
  10. Detroit Wolverines (1881-1888) .250 28-84-2 1884
  11. Milwaukee Grays (1878) .250 15-45-1 1878
  12. Troy Trojans (1879-1882) .253 19-56-2 1879
  13. Cincinnati Stars (1880) .263 21-59-3 1880
  14. Louisville Colonels (1892-1899) .307 35-96-2 1895
  15. Buffalo Bisons (1879-1885) .293 24-58-3 1880
  16. Washington Senators (1892-1899) .310 40-89-1 1893
  17. Baltimore Orioles (1892-1899) .313 46-101-5 1892
  18. Indianapolis Hoosiers (1887-1889) .294 37-89-1 1887
  19. Cleveland Blues (1879-1884) .313 35-77-1 1884
  20. Syracuse Stars (1879) .314 22-48-1 1879
  21. Saint Louis Maroons (1885-1886) .333 36-72-3 1885
  22. Brooklyn Grooms (1890-1900 Los Angeles Dodgers) .372 54-91-4 1898
  23. New York Mutuals (1876) .375 21-35-1 1876
  24. New York Giants (1883-1900 San Francisco Giants) .400 60-90-3 1899
  25. Indianapolis Blues (1878) .400 24-36-3 1878
  26. Pittsburgh (1891-1900 Pirates.407 55-80-2 1891
  27. Cincinnati Reds (1890-1900 Reds.409 56-81-1 1891
  28. Boston (1876-1900 Atlanta) .411 46-66-1 1885
  29. Chicago Colts (1876-1900 Chicago Cubs.432 57-75-5 1894
  30. Louisville Grays (1876-1877) .455 30-36-3 1876
  31. Saint Louis Brown Stockings (1876-1877) .467 28-32-0 1877
  32. Providence Grays (1878-1885) .482 53-57-0 1885
  33. Hartfords of Brooklyn (1876-1877) .534 31-27-2 1877

 

12 Defunct Leagues & Associated Team / Season Records Excluded:

  • National Association (1871-1875)
  • American Association (1882-1891)
  • Union Association (1884)
  • Players League (1890)
  • Federal League (1914-1915)
  • Negro National League (1920-1931)
  • Eastern Colored League (1923-1928)
  • American Negro League (1929)
  • East-West League (1932)
  • Negro Southern League (1932)
  • Negro National League II (1933-1948)
  • Negro American League (1937-1948)

Are you related to Jay Cuda?

He's going to be very busy these next 2-3 years.

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Royals are spending some money...but is it good money? These seem like mid tier moves to me. I know the Sox suck, but this division even with the Royals and Tigers getting FA signings still feels winnable by anyone...Twins are taking a step back and the Guardians are just meh. Seems like a really odd time to be rebuilding when the next 2-3 years of the division will be won by the team that gets injured the least. 

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1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I'd like to know what SSHM does for a living and how he can expend all this time and energy on daily multiple posts like the one above.

I retired at 50 just before COVID. My career was in Finance. I like diving into statistics and baseball history, so at times I’ll go down rabbit holes at times for my personal knowledge or entertainment. Played Rotisserie starting in 1985 for the same reasons.

I also do some volunteer work and bail from Chicago for about a month each Winter, but travel and other plans changed significantly with the COVID and other external BS over the past four years. The best laid plans…..

 

 

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