Lip Man 1 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 7 minutes ago, Highland said: I don't want the Sox to leave, but I don't like the idea of being blackmailed. Nothing has happened yet, but we can see how the emotions have been stirred. I think it takes some nerve to ask for a stadium a few months after a 101-loss season. Maybe fans wouldn't think we need a new stadium to "save" the White Sox if the team won something once in a while. Since '08, this team has does nothing but lose. And yet, the same people are making the same decisions. A new stadium won't solve the problems the team has had. We don't need a new stadium. We need new ownership. I have a feeling we will get a new stadium. And any fan who thinks more money will be invested to get better players will happen because of a new stadium is naive. Again very well said. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 4 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: Absolutely correct, spot on. The fan base that has been dumped on for decades is trying to get some revenge. Getting revenge by us not ending up with a world class stadium and possibly losing the team? Again, you guys care more about Jerry losing than the Sox winning. 6 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 One thing that’s certainly true is that if you actually have your own skin in the game, there’s going to be or should be far fewer cost overruns and much stricter oversight over budgets… 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 14 minutes ago, Highland said: I don't want the Sox to leave, but I don't like the idea of being blackmailed. Nothing has happened yet, but we can see how the emotions have been stirred. I think it takes some nerve to ask for a stadium a few months after a 101-loss season. Maybe fans wouldn't think we need a new stadium to "save" the White Sox if the team won something once in a while. Since '08, this team has does nothing but lose. And yet, the same people are making the same decisions. A new stadium won't solve the problems the team has had. We don't need a new stadium. We need new ownership. I have a feeling we will get a new stadium. And any fan who thinks more money will be invested to get better players will happen because of a new stadium is naive. A new stadium and a new ownership group aren’t mutually exclusive things. And while the Reinsdorf family will profit off a new stadium, it’s a new owner who will reap the long-term benefits from it. And those benefits would almost certainly result in greater payrolls and hopefully improved competitiveness. There is literally no downside to this other than Jerry “winning” and a bunch of tourists continuing to pay a hotel tax they currently pay today. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 The fanbase, collectively, is trying to get revenge. The delusion is strong with this one... I've seen some wild statements on this site, but this might just take the cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightly Folded Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 19 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: Absolutely correct, spot on. The fan base that has been dumped on for decades is trying to get some revenge. But in the end it winds up being self abuse. Pain requiring more pain to relieve the original pain with fresh pain. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, Lightly Folded said: Maybe you feel this way because your actually a cub fan? I'm not, but being a Sox fan has been good like 3 times in the last 15 years. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightly Folded Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 minute ago, Panerista said: I'm not, but being a Sox fan has been good like 3 times in the last 15 years. I guess being a Sox fan isn’t a lifetime commitment for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, baseball_gal_aly said: No business should ever get a tax break for anything ever. Tax breaks should go to the people who actually need it, not those who don't. Pay your fucking taxes you greedy pricks. Then all businesses will move. Businesses drive the economies and pay for nearly everything else. You lose them the area dies. Like it or not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Lightly Folded said: I guess being a Sox fan isn’t a lifetime commitment for everyone. It's fandom. it's not a commitment at all. Anyone "committed to the White Sox" is a fool that this point because the team isn't committed to us. At this point, you're just cheering for the laundry. Edited February 24 by Panerista 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 minute ago, Panerista said: It's fandom. it's not a commitment at all. Anyone "committed to the White Sox" is a fool that this point because the team isn't committed to us. At this point, you're just cheering for the laundry. At what point are you just cheering for wins not the team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Just now, ptatc said: At what point are you just cheering for wins not the team? I think the line happens when the owner of the team craps on the fanbase to the public. At this point I feel like I don't have a team, because the White Sox don't want anything to do with us. @Lightly Folded may fall into some delusion where there's honor in cheering for that garbage organization but Jerry crossed a line. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 from the way it was explained to me, there won't be any new taxes to IL residents to get what JR is asking for, it just extends the sunset period for the hotel tax another 30 yrs? is that what you guys are hearing? f*** it, lets do it (sounds like the bears are now in play for this property as well, so that probably kills any chance the sox get this done) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 4 minutes ago, joejoesox said: from the way it was explained to me, there won't be any new taxes to IL residents to get what JR is asking for, it just extends the sunset period for the hotel tax another 30 yrs? is that what you guys are hearing? f*** it, lets do it (sounds like the bears are now in play for this property as well, so that probably kills any chance the sox get this done) Plus a sales tax capture if the stories are right. But the tag line is no "new" taxes for sure Also a football stadium would not fit on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Plus a sales tax capture if the stories are right. But the tag line is no "new" taxes for sure i also read that the state will be able to pull from ticket sales / park-related taxes, that sounds like a win win to me for the state of IL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: Getting revenge by us not ending up with a world class stadium and possibly losing the team? Again, you guys care more about Jerry losing than the Sox winning. And if Jerry cares more about getting a deal that screws over the citizens of Illinois than he does about either a great stadium or making money, should white sox fans just give in and say that’s all we can do? 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScootsMcGoots Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 3 minutes ago, joejoesox said: i also read that the state will be able to pull from ticket sales / park-related taxes, that sounds like a win win to me for the state of IL This is the part I don't understand why people are so upset. I guess I can understand the anger over leaving Bridgeport...for those who live in the Bridgeport or surrounding areas (cough Laurence Holmes)...but I thought Jerry was saying this should not cost the residents any money, and it will all be paid for through that hotel tax and other means that don't come out of the pockets of the citizens of Illinois. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: Getting revenge by us not ending up with a world class stadium and possibly losing the team? Again, you guys care more about Jerry losing than the Sox winning. getting some serious stockholm syndrome vibes with this take 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightly Folded Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 20 minutes ago, Panerista said: I think the line happens when the owner of the team craps on the fanbase to the public. At this point I feel like I don't have a team, because the White Sox don't want anything to do with us. @Lightly Folded may fall into some delusion where there's honor in cheering for that garbage organization but Jerry crossed a line. I’ve been a Sox fan since I was 5 years old which was 65 years ago. My father who was born in 1910 was a Sox Sox fan since he was knee high to a grasshopper. My grandfather was there when the Sox played on Wentworth avenue before old comiskey was built. That’s generational commitment. You don’t quit a lifetime commitment because of a Jerry Reinsdorf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 8 minutes ago, joejoesox said: i also read that the state will be able to pull from ticket sales / park-related taxes, that sounds like a win win to me for the state of IL If this is a win win, if the city and state are going to come out of this well; then where is the detailed set of tax and economic analyses that support this? Show that to Sox fans and to taxpayers. Let the plan market itself if it’s such a win. What is Reinsdorf’s opening argument? “Give me all the money or your team walks”. First public interview, opening lines of the Crains article are a threat. If it’s a win-win, then you shouldn’t be threatening your fans and taxpayers. Again. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScootsMcGoots Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: If this is a win win, if the city and state are going to come out of this well; then where is the detailed set of tax and economic analyses that support this? Show that to Sox fans and to taxpayers. Let the plan market itself if it’s such a win. What is Reinsdorf’s opening argument? “Give me all the money or your team walks”. First public interview, opening lines of the Crains article are a threat. If it’s a win-win, then you shouldn’t be threatening your fans and taxpayers. Again. While Jerry's strength is certainly not getting the public on his side...I honestly don't think it matters what the fans think. It doesn't matter what taxpayers think. All he has to do is convince the politicians (who are wealthy just like he is). Jerry's got connections and influence. And a lot of money. In the end, it doesn't matter what we think. He'll get what he wants. One way or another. EDIT: it SHOULD be ultimately up to the people, though. I don't understand why this plan isn't put on some kind of ballot to be voted on by the citizens. Edited February 24 by ScootsMcGoots 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 34 minutes ago, Panerista said: I think the line happens when the owner of the team craps on the fanbase to the public. At this point I feel like I don't have a team, because the White Sox don't want anything to do with us. @Lightly Folded may fall into some delusion where there's honor in cheering for that garbage organization but Jerry crossed a line. To each his own. The delusion is in the eye of the beholder. But telling someone else how to feel about it isn't a good way to go about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 9 minutes ago, ScootsMcGoots said: While Jerry's strength is certainly not getting the public on his side...I honestly don't think it matters what the fans think. It doesn't matter what taxpayers think. All he has to do is convince the politicians (who are wealthy just like he is). Jerry's got connections and influence. And a lot of money. In the end, it doesn't matter what we think. He'll get what he wants. One way or another. EDIT: it SHOULD be ultimately up to the people, though. I don't understand why this plan isn't put on some kind of ballot to be voted on by the citizens. I think Jerry absolutely has to convince the taxpayers since those are voters. Whether it’s a primary or a general election contest, if this deal is super unpopular then it will appear in campaign ads this year. The primary is March 19. Im usually ok with a representative democracy as mostly I see direct democracy creating messes. Representation should involve people making trade offs and telling the voters why they got a good deal. So far everything tells Me this is a really bad deal on paper, and I’ve seen zero that shows me different in any coherent way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 8 minutes ago, ptatc said: To each his own. The delusion is in the eye of the beholder. But telling someone else how to feel about it isn't a good way to go about it. Telling someone they're a cubs fan because they're mad at Jerry Reinsdorf is worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Lightly Folded said: I’ve been a Sox fan since I was 5 years old which was 65 years ago. My father who was born in 1910 was a Sox Sox fan since he was knee high to a grasshopper. My grandfather was there when the Sox played on Wentworth avenue before old comiskey was built. That’s generational commitment. You don’t quit a lifetime commitment because of a Jerry Reinsdorf. Jerry Reinsdorf has been the owner of the White Sox my entire life and it turns out he doesn't actually value winning or the fans. Edited February 24 by Panerista 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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