White Sox acquire Corey Julks from HOU for RHP Luis Rodriguez, option to AAA, recall Dom Fletcher, Ortega DFA'd

[JoeC]

If Julks was DFA'd, he was presumably placed on waivers, no?

Were the Sox afraid he would get snatched up by someone else?

[JoeC]

Also, holy s%*#. The Sox DFA'd Ortega on his birthday?

That's cold.

...or is it generous?

[ChiSox59]

8 hours ago, JoeC said:

If Julks was DFA'd, he was presumably placed on waivers, no?

Were the Sox afraid he would get snatched up by someone else?

Either that, or the Sox claimed him and this is what they agreed upon in exchange.  

[southsider2k5]

9 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Either that, or the Sox claimed him and this is what they agreed upon in exchange.  

I think with a DFA you have 10 days to make a deal if someone claims, and if it doesn't work out you could pull them back or let them go for nothing.

[ChiSox59]

9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I think with a DFA you have 10 days to make a deal if someone claims, and if it doesn't work out you could pull them back or let them go for nothing.

I thought it was teams had 7 days (previously was 10 under previous CBA) to either trade a DFAd player before placing on waivers, and if no deal is found you then have to place player on waivers and if player is claimed your options are 1) work a trade; 2) allow the claiming team to have player or; 3) pull back and put back on your 40 man.  

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I thought it was teams had 7 days (previously was 10 under previous CBA) to either trade a DFAd player before placing on waivers, and if no deal is found you then have to place player on waivers and if player is claimed your options are 1) work a trade; 2) allow the claiming team to have player or; 3) pull back and put back on your 40 man.  

Yep, forgot about the change under the last CBA to 7 days.

[Chicago White Sox]

11 hours ago, WestEddy said:

These things actually happened. Ask your mom. 

How in the world would you get that I'm arguing that minor league depth is not important? That's a strawman argument. You do realize that there is a cap on how many minor leaguers a team can have now, right? 

There's a whole bunch of people who scream and cry when anybody's DFAed or traded, or whatnot, and they post the first couple of starts these players make after leaving the Sox system. But, it's been strangely silent for people criticizing the Oakland organization for DFAing Alex Speas after they claimed him from the Sox. 

You're just piling on. I reallly don't understand what you're doing with this comment. 

You word for word said this.  Matthew Thompson is still very young so no idea what point you were actually trying to make here.

Quote

 

The same people who scream that minor league depth is soooooooo important that we have to hold onto these guys until they sign up for AARP are the same ones posting laughing emojis when you mention that we're starting to amass some minor league depth. 

Regardless, people have every right to rip Chris Getz for trading 23 year old Matthew Thompson who didn’t require roster protection for a 26 year old LH relief prospect who requried a 40 man roster spot only to be released a few months later to add a AAAA outfielder (who was just released) to the mix since the two 25+ OF prospects he acquired this offseason for controllable talent aren’t yet quite ready for the show for reasons unknown.

Is trading Matthew Thompson the end of the world?  Of course not, but when evaluated as part of a larger series of moves it’s a bit concerning and people who are objective should actively call Getz out for it.  For some reason, you like to sweep all these little misses and questionable decisions under the rug as either being “immaterial” or “business as usual” and then proceed to rip the crowd that is more vocal in ripping Getz as being irrational.  The reality is we have one of the least talented major league rosters and shouldn’t proactively age up our roster on guys that offer absolutely nothing like Ortega.  No idea how you can continue justify such actions for a team on pace to win 50 games.

[WestEddy]

12 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You word for word said this.  Matthew Thompson is still very young so no idea what point you were actually trying to make here.

Regardless, people have every right to rip Chris Getz for trading 23 year old Matthew Thompson who didn’t require roster protection for a 26 year old LH relief prospect who requried a 40 man roster spot only to be released a few months later to add a AAAA outfielder (who was just released) to the mix since the two 25+ OF prospects he acquired this offseason for controllable talent aren’t yet quite ready for the show for reasons unknown.

Is trading Matthew Thompson the end of the world?  Of course not, but when evaluated as part of a larger series of moves it’s a bit concerning and people who are objective should actively call Getz out for it.  For some reason, you like to sweep all these little misses and questionable decisions under the rug as either being “immaterial” or “business as usual” and then proceed to rip the crowd that is more vocal in ripping Getz as being irrational.  The reality is we have one of the least talented major league rosters and shouldn’t proactively age up our roster on guys that offer absolutely nothing like Ortega.  No idea how you can continue justify such actions for a team on pace to win 50 games.

First of all, I'm not making up narratives. We are literally in a string where people are complaining about trading a rookie-level bullpen arm they didn't even know existed until they saw the new string. And this happens after every single trade or DFA. So please stop making up BS and tagging me with it.

People are ripping Chris Getz in this particular string for an insignificant roster move. Stretching their arguments out to the logical end, the White Sox should never release or trade anybody unless they're getting somebody younger. Even if the younger person has less talent, because all these people are reacting to is the ages. Some guy is even ripping on me for posting a Fangraphs write-up of the guy we traded, because it ruins their narrative. 

The White Sox have to play the games on their schedule. They need players to do that. Not some A-ball phenom who will fail miserably, but capable vets, or MLB-ready prospects. I understand that your opinion is that the White Sox should be getting progressively younger with each and every move they make. That's not realistic. It's a nice goal, but to use that as an overriding tenet that never gets violated is silly. 

Every incident that happens in White Sox world isn't a Chris Getz failure. The people who insist on framing every personnel move as part of a troubling pattern aren't being "objective". You are actively whining that the White Sox aren't making more moves that will result in a worse record for the major league club this year, so please don't scold me over a 50-win team. 

You don't get to have it both ways, using a bad win-loss record to beat me over the head with, while saying that the win-loss record this season doesn't matter. 

I didn't like the Maldonado signing, and my eyes roll every time I see him in the lineup. Me bitching about it everyday in every single string isn't going to reduce his playing time. That's called being an adult, not "sweeping it under the rug". 

Ortega is a 4th OF that probably took up space while Dominic Fletcher got his head straight in AAA. Raphael Ortega isn't a "trend". To even pretend that an insignificant roster move to have a 4th OF on the major league team is a problem that bolsters your argument is insane. 

 

[JoeC]

4 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Either that, or the Sox claimed him and this is what they agreed upon in exchange.  

 

4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

I think with a DFA you have 10 days to make a deal if someone claims, and if it doesn't work out you could pull them back or let them go for nothing.

Gotcha... thanks

[Chicago White Sox]

45 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

First of all, I'm not making up narratives. We are literally in a string where people are complaining about trading a rookie-level bullpen arm they didn't even know existed until they saw the new string. And this happens after every single trade or DFA. So please stop making up BS and tagging me with it.

People are ripping Chris Getz in this particular string for an insignificant roster move. Stretching their arguments out to the logical end, the White Sox should never release or trade anybody unless they're getting somebody younger. Even if the younger person has less talent, because all these people are reacting to is the ages. Some guy is even ripping on me for posting a Fangraphs write-up of the guy we traded, because it ruins their narrative. 

The White Sox have to play the games on their schedule. They need players to do that. Not some A-ball phenom who will fail miserably, but capable vets, or MLB-ready prospects. I understand that your opinion is that the White Sox should be getting progressively younger with each and every move they make. That's not realistic. It's a nice goal, but to use that as an overriding tenet that never gets violated is silly. 

Every incident that happens in White Sox world isn't a Chris Getz failure. The people who insist on framing every personnel move as part of a troubling pattern aren't being "objective". You are actively whining that the White Sox aren't making more moves that will result in a worse record for the major league club this year, so please don't scold me over a 50-win team. 

You don't get to have it both ways, using a bad win-loss record to beat me over the head with, while saying that the win-loss record this season doesn't matter. 

I didn't like the Maldonado signing, and my eyes roll every time I see him in the lineup. Me bitching about it everyday in every single string isn't going to reduce his playing time. That's called being an adult, not "sweeping it under the rug". 

Ortega is a 4th OF that probably took up space while Dominic Fletcher got his head straight in AAA. Raphael Ortega isn't a "trend". To even pretend that an insignificant roster move to have a 4th OF on the major league team is a problem that bolsters your argument is insane. 

 

Yes, the White Sox need to play games.  Weren’t Fletcher and DeLoach acquired to help solve RF this season and also provide depth elsewhere in the OF in the case of injury?  We traded a top 10 prospect and a controllable RP with serious upside (fully aware of his health issues) to get these guys and yet they are so unready for major league jobs that we must DFA controllable arms on the 40 man roster and trade minor league talent (even if just lottery tickets) so we can “play the games”.  We also continue to play a 1B/DH type in RF, something we all criticized Hahn for and something that Getz implied we’d get away from, all because two of Getz’s legit acquisitions have been such massive flops so far.

So yeah, you can continue to look at everything in isolation and say all these misses are “immaterial” or you can observe more holistically and be concerned that Getz may be in over his head.  I don’t hate every single thing Getz has done as GM, but there are some massive red flags right now that shouldn’t be ignored.  And that’s even more true when you acknowledge he probably wasn’t qualified for this role in the first place.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yes, the White Sox need to play games.  Weren’t Fletcher and DeLoach acquired to help solve RF this season and also provide depth elsewhere in the OF in the case of injury?  We traded a top 10 prospect and a controllable RP with serious upside (fully aware of his health issues) to get these guys and yet they are so unready for major league jobs that we must DFA controllable arms on the 40 man roster and trade minor league talent (even if just lottery tickets) so we can “play the games”.  We also continue to play a 1B/DH type in RF, something we all criticized Hahn for and something that Getz implied we’d get away from, all because two of Getz’s legit acquisitions have been such massive flops so far.

So yeah, you can continue to look at everything in isolation and say all these misses are “immaterial” or you can observe more holistically and be concerned that Getz may be in over his head.  I don’t hate every single thing Getz has done as GM, but there are some massive red flags right now that shouldn’t be ignored.  And that’s even more true when you acknowledge he probably wasn’t qualified for this role in the first place.

More than anything he started out on a path this winter that made some sense in context, and then as soon as the team started losing he threw all of it away, and did the exact opposite of everything as he went through what you described above.  It's one thing to have a plan, but as Ali said, everyone has a plan until they get hit in the mouth.  Getz got hit in the mouth and ran from everything he was doing.

[WestEddy]

15 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yes, the White Sox need to play games.  Weren’t Fletcher and DeLoach acquired to help solve RF this season and also provide depth elsewhere in the OF in the case of injury?  We traded a top 10 prospect and a controllable RP with serious upside (fully aware of his health issues) to get these guys and yet they are so unready for major league jobs that we must DFA controllable arms on the 40 man roster and trade minor league talent (even if just lottery tickets) so we can “play the games”.  We also continue to play a 1B/DH type in RF, something we all criticized Hahn for and something that Getz implied we’d get away from, all because two of Getz’s legit acquisitions have been such massive flops so far.

So yeah, you can continue to look at everything in isolation and say all these misses are “immaterial” or you can observe more holistically and be concerned that Getz may be in over his head.  I don’t hate every single thing Getz has done as GM, but there are some massive red flags right now that shouldn’t be ignored.  And that’s even more true when you acknowledge he probably wasn’t qualified for this role in the first place.

I see no problem with keeping a prospect at AAA to get reps and hone their skills out of the spotlight. Colson Montgomery is still at AAA, and I wouldn't call his presence there a massive flop. DeLoach has hit 1 HR at a park that is a launching pad. Fletcher seemed to press on a team that started the season in a horrible slump, and I don't see an issue with taking him back a level to clear his head and reestablish good habits. 

I see the acquisition of Julks as an opportunity to get a platoon partner and RH bat. The guy they let go is a rookie level bullpen arm that throws an 88-90 mph fastball. He's not a prospect. This move does not fit into your narrative. The Sox just traded 34 year old Robbie Grossman for 23 year old Anthony Hoopii-Tuionetoa. Maybe Getz made a mistake. Or maybe the narrative is silly.

You recently called me insane for suggesting that giving vets time to come back from injury or establish themselves as a trade piece does indeed help this team down the road. I'm not sure why. 

[Chicago White Sox]

30 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I see no problem with keeping a prospect at AAA to get reps and hone their skills out of the spotlight. Colson Montgomery is still at AAA, and I wouldn't call his presence there a massive flop. DeLoach has hit 1 HR at a park that is a launching pad. Fletcher seemed to press on a team that started the season in a horrible slump, and I don't see an issue with taking him back a level to clear his head and reestablish good habits. 

I see the acquisition of Julks as an opportunity to get a platoon partner and RH bat. The guy they let go is a rookie level bullpen arm that throws an 88-90 mph fastball. He's not a prospect. This move does not fit into your narrative. The Sox just traded 34 year old Robbie Grossman for 23 year old Anthony Hoopii-Tuionetoa. Maybe Getz made a mistake. Or maybe the narrative is silly.

You recently called me insane for suggesting that giving vets time to come back from injury or establish themselves as a trade piece does indeed help this team down the road. I'm not sure why. 

I called you insane for suggesting Brad Keller was a “key part of our future” and I’d tell my mother the same thing if he she made such a trollish claim.

As for Montgomery, he should be at AAA right now because he just turned 22 years old and had a 167 plate appearances above High A ball coming into this season.  DeLoach is a 25 year old coming a full season of AAA ball.  Why the f*** did we acquire this kid if he needed more seasoning?  The same applies to Fletcher.  You say he needed to be sent down to “reestablish good habits” but nothing in his performance in Charlotte warranted a call-up.  Him getting called up again reeks of desperation after pretending Ortega was a major league OF.

So yeah, I don’t really care all that much about us trading a random lottery ticket for another AAAA OF who might be a weak side bat in the majors.  It’s more of the broader strategy and various misses when viewed in aggregate that is highly concerning.  Again, it’s very early to evaluate Chris, but at the moment the dude looks in over his head and that’s truly terrifying when you acknowledge he must turn a 50 to 60 win team into a playoff contender without the luxury of a top 5 farm system to bank on.

[WestEddy]

52 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

More than anything he started out on a path this winter that made some sense in context, and then as soon as the team started losing he threw all of it away, and did the exact opposite of everything as he went through what you described above.  It's one thing to have a plan, but as Ali said, everyone has a plan until they get hit in the mouth.  Getz got hit in the mouth and ran from everything he was doing.

Sheets, Grossman and Pham are really the only examples of Getz backing off the focus on defense to get more offense in the lineup. That 3-22 start was an emergency situation that required attention. The national spotlight on just how bad they were wasn't good for the rookies. I think Lenyn Sosa and Fletcher were pressing and making some glaring, boneheaded plays because of the pressure to make something happen. 

I can also understand Getz starting out, thinking he was going to show the league how it's done, and adjusting from that after the horrible start. 

The team's in a good place right now for a guy like Bryan Ramos to slot in, and he doesn't feel he has to hoist the team up on his back. 

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Sheets, Grossman and Pham are really the only examples of Getz backing off the focus on defense to get more offense in the lineup. That 3-22 start was an emergency situation that required attention. The national spotlight on just how bad they were wasn't good for the rookies. I think Lenyn Sosa and Fletcher were pressing and making some glaring, boneheaded plays because of the pressure to make something happen. 

I can also understand Getz starting out, thinking he was going to show the league how it's done, and adjusting from that after the horrible start. 

The team's in a good place right now for a guy like Bryan Ramos to slot in, and he doesn't feel he has to hoist the team up on his back. 

If you know you aren't winning anything this year, this situation should be the exact opposite.  A 3-22 start tells you that you should be looking at your future, and NOT this year.  The rookies weren't the problem, it was his placeholder vets.  And to fix that problem, he started getting more vets to squeeze out the kids.

[Nardiwashere]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If you know you aren't winning anything this year, this situation should be the exact opposite.  A 3-22 start tells you that you should be looking at your future, and NOT this year.  The rookies weren't the problem, it was his placeholder vets.  And to fix that problem, he started getting more vets to squeeze out the kids.

What kids were squeezed out?  Fletcher was bad to start the season(a lot of people here act like they've already written him off) and now he's back.  Sosa has had a couple hundred ABs and hasn't looked good at all.  It seems like they don't love him either. 

Colas?  Doesn't feel like he's in their future plans. 

People trashed Getz when Ramos was brought up. 

Am I missing anyone?

[T R U]

6 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

What kids were squeezed out?  Fletcher was bad to start the season(a lot of people here act like they've already written him off) and now he's back.  Sosa has had a couple hundred ABs and hasn't looked good at all.  It seems like they don't love him either. 

Colas?  Doesn't feel like he's in their future plans. 

People trashed Getz when Ramos was brought up. 

Am I missing anyone?

Fletcher was bad, so was Sosa. They fit right in with everyone else on this team. As it was already said, should have just let the kids play and stop trying to patch holes with more crappy veterans at the expense of said kids.

[WestEddy]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I called you insane for suggesting Brad Keller was a “key part of our future” and I’d tell my mother the same thing if he she made such a trollish claim.

As for Montgomery, he should be at AAA right now because he just turned 22 years old and had a 167 plate appearances above High A ball coming into this season.  DeLoach is a 25 year old coming a full season of AAA ball.  Why the f*** did we acquire this kid if he needed more seasoning?  The same applies to Fletcher.  You say he needed to be sent down to “reestablish good habits” but nothing in his performance in Charlotte warranted a call-up.  Him getting called up again reeks of desperation after pretending Ortega was a major league OF.

So yeah, I don’t really care all that much about us trading a random lottery ticket for another AAAA OF who might be a weak side bat in the majors.  It’s more of the broader strategy and various misses when viewed in aggregate that is highly concerning.  Again, it’s very early to evaluate Chris, but at the moment the dude looks in over his head and that’s truly terrifying when you acknowledge he must turn a 50 to 60 win team into a playoff contender without the luxury of a top 5 farm system to bank on.

If Grifol wasn't such a bibbledy-babble idiot, we'd probably have a better idea of what they wanted from Fletcher, or why he was back up. I have no idea what they wanted Fletcher to do in AAA, and it seems like he's more of the 4th OF right now. So what? Grifol seems to get everyone on the roster playing time, so I'm not really worried about him getting his reps. 

Brad Keller is on the roster. He's starting games. If they can return him to the 3-4 WAR pitcher he used to be, and trade him for a prospect, that would be a key part of the future of this team. So, let's see, let Jon Cannon get lit up 6 more times, or showcase a guy who will bring back an outfielder?

Your analysis of the "broader strategy" seems to disregard any information that disproves your narrative. Again, I take a "wait and see" attitude towards what Getz is doing. To be complaining about every single move seems panicky and desperate to me. 

[Bob Sacamano]

12 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

What kids were squeezed out?  Fletcher was bad to start the season(a lot of people here act like they've already written him off) and now he's back.  Sosa has had a couple hundred ABs and hasn't looked good at all.  It seems like they don't love him either. 

Colas?  Doesn't feel like he's in their future plans. 

People trashed Getz when Ramos was brought up. 

Am I missing anyone?

They should absolutely be playing at least these two at the MLB level every day to decide if they have any place on this roster or they're 40-man roster fat to trim in the off-season.

Edited May 16 by Bob Sacamano

[WestEddy]

19 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If you know you aren't winning anything this year, this situation should be the exact opposite.  A 3-22 start tells you that you should be looking at your future, and NOT this year.  The rookies weren't the problem, it was his placeholder vets.  And to fix that problem, he started getting more vets to squeeze out the kids.

The only kids who got squeezed out were Nastrini, Cannon and Fletcher. Nastrini and Cannon looked like they needed more work, and Fletcher was pressing. Fletcher got more of a time out, and I'd imagine they'll work him back into the mix as Sheets continues to cool off. 

They have to play the games, so they have to look at this year to the extent that they're managing the roster, and putting the rookies into a better situation where they can be worked into the lineup without feeling like they have to carry the team. The extreme losing was a distraction that had to be toned down. The big slumps look over, so now they could just be a bad team instead of historically bad. 

[Nardiwashere]

5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

The only kids who got squeezed out were Nastrini, Cannon and Fletcher. Nastrini and Cannon looked like they needed more work, and Fletcher was pressing. Fletcher got more of a time out, and I'd imagine they'll work him back into the mix as Sheets continues to cool off. 

They have to play the games, so they have to look at this year to the extent that they're managing the roster, and putting the rookies into a better situation where they can be worked into the lineup without feeling like they have to carry the team. The extreme losing was a distraction that had to be toned down. The big slumps look over, so now they could just be a bad team instead of historically bad. 

And we are going to see Nastrini and Cannon again this year.  

[Nardiwashere]

11 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

They should absolutely be playing at least these two at the MLB level every day to decide if they have any place on this roster or they're 40-man roster fat to trim in the off-season.

They need to make some type of decision on them.  They are just taking up spots. 

[WestEddy]

18 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

What kids were squeezed out?  Fletcher was bad to start the season(a lot of people here act like they've already written him off) and now he's back.  Sosa has had a couple hundred ABs and hasn't looked good at all.  It seems like they don't love him either. 

Colas?  Doesn't feel like he's in their future plans. 

People trashed Getz when Ramos was brought up. 

Am I missing anyone?

Nastrini and Cannon. But after their first starts, they came back to Earth. 

I'm guessing all of DeLoach, Ramos, Colas, Fletcher, Nastrini, Cannon, Thorpe will be on the team through August and September. 

Seriously, if Flexen, Fedde, Kopech, Pham, Sheets, Keller, Brebbia, Wilson, Leone, Hill, Clevinger, DeJong and .... Vaughn(?) bring back anybody of note, their showcasing will have been a huge success. 

And everybody ought to prepare themselves for Jared Walsh and Jake Woodford, because he have no 1B close, really, and if they clean house at the TDL, they're going to need starters, yet. 

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

They need to make some type of decision on them.  They are just taking up spots. 

Exactly. It seems like they already have made their decision on Colas but if you're not playing them this year, when will you? I think they're both gone in the off-season (if not before then).

Edited May 16 by Bob Sacamano

[ChiSox59]

2 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Exactly. It seems like they already have made their decision on Colas but if you're not playing them this year, when will you? I think they're both gone in the off-season (if not before then).

Id really loathe to see them move on from Oscar without another extended look.