caulfield12 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 4 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: They are a legit organization and care more about talent than money. In the same situation, the Sox would’ve probably cut a young guy over potentially burning $4.5 million. Or Getz would be frantically trying to trade Brasier for the most cash considerations offered, along with a 27 year old Single A reliever. Grove is the young pitcher everyone is pointing to MIGHT be expendable and likely will never be able to start with that depth chart. They also have Brusdal Graterol on the mend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) "The Mets, meanwhile, have signed a number of starters this winter but lack impact at the front of their rotation and are already planning on using a six-man staff for 2025 that could make fitting Cease into the mix fairly easy (especially if a starter like David Peterson went the other way — speculatively speaking). A recent poll of MLBTR readers suggested that a slim majority of fans believe that San Diego should trade Cease, whether that be on his own or in addition to fellow rental starter Michael King. Could a deal get done before spring training?" https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2025/01/the-opener-moniak-yates-cease.html Lance Lynn as a reliever and Kendall Graveman drawing some interest.... Edited January 31 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Old foe alert: Cubs sign RHP Brad Keller to minor league deal and invite to spring training. — Bruce Levine (@MLBBruceLevine) January 31, 2025 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 10 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Old foe alert: And friend 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 12 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: And friend Nah. Brad Keller and Justin Morneau will never get the "old friend" tag. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Rangers and Mets emerging as two possible favorites for RHP Ryan Brasier... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2025/01/alex-bregman-reportedly-has-six-year-offer-from-club-other-than-astros.html Has to be Blue jays or Tigers with other six year offer out there...Toronto with one year opt out if Guerrero Bichette Scherzer all leave makes the most sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 23 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2025/01/mariners-to-re-sign-jorge-polanco.html Think I would have preferred this to signing Rojas. But I get it’s about cutting the payroll to absolute minimum. Polanco completely forgot how to hit last season and hasn't played SS regularly since 2020. Not sure he offers more defensive utility than Rojas, and certainly not at twice the cost. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 7 hours ago, Quin said: Nah. Brad Keller and Justin Morneau will never get the "old friend" tag. More like “yet another awful player that Getz once acquired.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 There are still a ton of recognizable names available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: There are still a ton of recognizable names available. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/12/2024-25-mlb-free-agents.html By my count 29 that played for the Sox at one point or another...oh and looks like Daniel Hudson finally retired with another WS ring. Edited February 1 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 I was listening to some vintage Aerosmith. If they are correct, "you have to lose to know how to win" we can Dream On for this season. And I'm not even drinking yet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 17 minutes ago, Texsox said: I was listening to some vintage Aerosmith. If they are correct, "you have to lose to know how to win" we can Dream On for this season. And I'm not even drinking yet Bloody Mahomes disagrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 On 1/29/2025 at 4:19 PM, WhiteSox2023 said: Wouldn’t describing the Cease trade as providing a “light return” be admitting that the return wasn’t good enough or as good as it should have been? Fans overvalue the expected returns all the time. It's pretty safe to say that because of Cease's down year that GMs were not offering a lot. So the question becomes do you hold him and risk him having a season that will diminish his value further. There will also be fans who since they believe the player is worth more who advocate holding a player who has been healthy and hoping for a rebound to enhance value. In retrospect it came down to should they have held him. Arguing about the return is pretty irrelevant if Getz took the best deal offered. We don't know if he was offered a high ranked position player . As fans we are always operating with vast levels of ignorance until we find snippets of information that hint at incompetence like with the Fedde and Fletcher trades. You get partial stories with 2nd hand knowledge. We also have no empathy for GMs. There is only your track record. As such Getz has only done a minor reshuffling of bodies after the fallout and trying to hire good people to help the survivors while the King claims funds are extremely limited . Outside sources lower offers for your remaining assets knowing that your options are limited. You're lucky I'm here to save your sorry ass. Without me you'd get nothing. And you surely cannot afford to get nothing .Your situation is dire. Your resources are dwindling. The vultures are circling. This is the situation I see and why I am more empathetic towards this rebuilding effort. The current King is old. Perhaps the foundation can be laid that will result in a stronger structure when all is said and done. Going to need a really good new King. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy U Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 The Cease return boils down to how you felt about Thorpe at the time. He was a top 50ish prospect but as a righty change up specialist. I am usually not real high on command over stuff guys, so I was down on it. Before Thorpe was hurt, he dominated MiLB, and showed flashes in MLB. Both Iriarte and Zavala took steps back. The return was 1 player light the day it was made. Feels lighter than that now. I still have hope for both iriarte and Zavala. Thorpe? Who knows at this point? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 29 minutes ago, Timmy U said: The Cease return boils down to how you felt about Thorpe at the time. He was a top 50ish prospect but as a righty change up specialist. I am usually not real high on command over stuff guys, so I was down on it. Before Thorpe was hurt, he dominated MiLB, and showed flashes in MLB. Both Iriarte and Zavala took steps back. The return was 1 player light the day it was made. Feels lighter than that now. I still have hope for both iriarte and Zavala. Thorpe? Who knows at this point? Really everything that could go wrong has gone wrong with everyone involved. Cease ended up looking great the 1st half. Thorpe gets hurt (and suffers a setback). Wilson becomes unflippable at the deadline. Zavala struggles mightily. Iriarte lost his 'stuff'. There still plenty of opportunity that some of the returns works out, but I don't think any of them are going to end up the impact-level of players we may have been expecting. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 35 minutes ago, Timmy U said: The Cease return boils down to how you felt about Thorpe at the time. He was a top 50ish prospect but as a righty change up specialist. I am usually not real high on command over stuff guys, so I was down on it. Before Thorpe was hurt, he dominated MiLB, and showed flashes in MLB. Both Iriarte and Zavala took steps back. The return was 1 player light the day it was made. Feels lighter than that now. I still have hope for both iriarte and Zavala. Thorpe? Who knows at this point? I think part of the "lightness" can be accounted for by Wilson's disappointing season. He was supposed to provide some solid innings and be tradeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2025/02/yankees-interested-in-enrique-hernandez-yoan-moncada.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 https://www.truebluela.com/2025/2/1/24356345/dodgers-tickets-2025-bobbleheads Dodgers announce 21 separate bobblehead giveaways and ten other huge promotional events for season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Fans overvalue the expected returns all the time. It's pretty safe to say that because of Cease's down year that GMs were not offering a lot. So the question becomes do you hold him and risk him having a season that will diminish his value further. For that deal yes, everything said hold the guy. If Dylan Cease just had a similarly inconsistent first half, he would still have been the most valuable pitcher on the market at the deadline. Every indicator said his stuff was still there, with just a velocity loss - so teams would still want him as a strikeout guy and you could certainly see teams paying more for him even if he just repeated his weak 2023. The odds of him losing value based on performance compared to that weak deal was low. The upside of a better deal if he had a strong first half was obvious. Furthermore, it was obvious the pitching market wasn’t there in January 2024. You had Snell available on the market and no one was paying. Teams were trading for and signing undervalued guys, like the Braves did with Sale and Lopez, rather than paying full price. Teams were not paying full price for starting pitching at the time, simply waiting for the market to correct would have been smart. The 2025 pitching market has been much more normal. At the deadline, the number of players available also drops dramatically and you may well have more teams bidding after guys got hurt in their rotations or their team surprised in the first half. The only way he would have lost substantial value is injury, but you were also looking at the guy who had made the most starts in baseball since the start of 2021. If you’re betting on a guy to stay healthy, that’s a lot better of a gamble than Kopech or Clevinger. Holding was clearly the right move all last offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 2 hours ago, Balta1701 said: For that deal yes, everything said hold the guy. If Dylan Cease just had a similarly inconsistent first half, he would still have been the most valuable pitcher on the market at the deadline. Every indicator said his stuff was still there, with just a velocity loss - so teams would still want him as a strikeout guy and you could certainly see teams paying more for him even if he just repeated his weak 2023. The odds of him losing value based on performance compared to that weak deal was low. The upside of a better deal if he had a strong first half was obvious. Furthermore, it was obvious the pitching market wasn’t there in January 2024. You had Snell available on the market and no one was paying. Teams were trading for and signing undervalued guys, like the Braves did with Sale and Lopez, rather than paying full price. Teams were not paying full price for starting pitching at the time, simply waiting for the market to correct would have been smart. The 2025 pitching market has been much more normal. At the deadline, the number of players available also drops dramatically and you may well have more teams bidding after guys got hurt in their rotations or their team surprised in the first half. The only way he would have lost substantial value is injury, but you were also looking at the guy who had made the most starts in baseball since the start of 2021. If you’re betting on a guy to stay healthy, that’s a lot better of a gamble than Kopech or Clevinger. Holding was clearly the right move all last offseason. Clearly the right move if you can guarantee he stays healthy & bounces back .A near 5 ERA 1st half means you are another half season+ away from his Cy Young type year. I don't know what makes you think that would make for a better market. Downside has to be figured along with upside. Then you likely choose the middle ground . I wasn't as worried about him staying healthy but a wicked shot up the middle or a collision covering 1st can happen. There's also a chance that he just didn't buckle down pitching for a lousy team. Putting him back in the same situation doesn't guarantee he gets the same results pitching for the Sox as he did in SD. That's an alternate universe result. Also if the offers weren't there when every team had a legit shot at such good peripherals despite the ERA then where are the good offers now coming from that are supposed to pop up with another bad 1st half + and less control ? I may maximize the lack of offers as dealing with the predatory nature of the other GMs knowing JR is just biding his time wanting to rid himself of salary but that's because everyone else minimizes the effect of being in the position that he's in. Sure he chose it, most upwardly mobile executives would take a promotion like that as a challenge but that doesn't make things any easier or as black and white as you want to make it. I doubt there's many here who knows much about being being a well paid executives in charge of turning a crappy team into a winner with JR doing his best to prepare the franchise for his heirs. There's no pressure on us from the cheapest of cheap seats. But I'm looking ahead not back so sharpen your pitchforks. I don't feel any more powerful arguing moot points where that past that didn't happen can now become your reality. If you think everything you said had a better than 50/50 chance of playing out , then more power to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 (edited) 3 hours ago, Balta1701 said: For that deal yes, everything said hold the guy. If Dylan Cease just had a similarly inconsistent first half, he would still have been the most valuable pitcher on the market at the deadline. Every indicator said his stuff was still there, with just a velocity loss - so teams would still want him as a strikeout guy and you could certainly see teams paying more for him even if he just repeated his weak 2023. The odds of him losing value based on performance compared to that weak deal was low. The upside of a better deal if he had a strong first half was obvious. Furthermore, it was obvious the pitching market wasn’t there in January 2024. You had Snell available on the market and no one was paying. Teams were trading for and signing undervalued guys, like the Braves did with Sale and Lopez, rather than paying full price. Teams were not paying full price for starting pitching at the time, simply waiting for the market to correct would have been smart. The 2025 pitching market has been much more normal. At the deadline, the number of players available also drops dramatically and you may well have more teams bidding after guys got hurt in their rotations or their team surprised in the first half. The only way he would have lost substantial value is injury, but you were also looking at the guy who had made the most starts in baseball since the start of 2021. If you’re betting on a guy to stay healthy, that’s a lot better of a gamble than Kopech or Clevinger. Holding was clearly the right move all last offseason. Especially when they were pedaling this “we’re gonna focus and be better defensively this year” (they weren’t) Edited February 1 by Bob Sacamano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 32 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: I don't know what makes you think that would make for a better market. I said it above, but to make this clear - if the market is weak at the time, if the #2 pitcher on the market can't get the type of deal he's looking for and has to take a 1 year deal, that's a bad market for starting pitching. A normal market is better than that. This year, all of the top 5 pitchers have their deals, and several teams have done trades for pitching. This is a normal market, maybe even a good market, for starting pitching. Literally everything last year said that it was a bad market. You had one guy who got a good deal quickly, Nola, and that was because the Phillies said they were keeping him. Everything else was teams looking for value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 31 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Clearly the right move if you can guarantee he stays healthy & bounces back .A near 5 ERA 1st half means you are another half season+ away from his Cy Young type year. I don't know what makes you think that would make for a better market. Downside has to be figured along with upside. Then you likely choose the middle ground . I wasn't as worried about him staying healthy but a wicked shot up the middle or a collision covering 1st can happen. There's also a chance that he just didn't buckle down pitching for a lousy team. Putting him back in the same situation doesn't guarantee he gets the same results pitching for the Sox as he did in SD. That's an alternate universe result. Also if the offers weren't there when every team had a legit shot at such good peripherals despite the ERA then where are the good offers now coming from that are supposed to pop up with another bad 1st half + and less control ? I may maximize the lack of offers as dealing with the predatory nature of the other GMs knowing JR is just biding his time wanting to rid himself of salary but that's because everyone else minimizes the effect of being in the position that he's in. Sure he chose it, most upwardly mobile executives would take a promotion like that as a challenge but that doesn't make things any easier or as black and white as you want to make it. I doubt there's many here who knows much about being being a well paid executives in charge of turning a crappy team into a winner with JR doing his best to prepare the franchise for his heirs. There's no pressure on us from the cheapest of cheap seats. But I'm looking ahead not back so sharpen your pitchforks. I don't feel any more powerful arguing moot points where that past that didn't happen can now become your reality. If you think everything you said had a better than 50/50 chance of playing out , then more power to you. I think if he had it to do over now..reflecting back on holding Crochet and the eventually resolution, he also would have had the additional confidence of his convictions to hold Cease as well. Ofc that wasn't the situation he was presented with...so yet another hypothetical. He knew the returns supposedly offered by the Dodgers were not sufficient or franchise trajectory altering. Otoh if the cash crunch on the White Sox is really as immense as some are speculating...it's going to require 2023 Robert's return AND crazy tight division and races involving all the big market teams at the deadline to get the types of returns many are speculating about recently for Luis Robert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I said it above, but to make this clear - if the market is weak at the time, if the #2 pitcher on the market can't get the type of deal he's looking for and has to take a 1 year deal, that's a bad market for starting pitching. A normal market is better than that. This year, all of the top 5 pitchers have their deals, and several teams have done trades for pitching. This is a normal market, maybe even a good market, for starting pitching. Literally everything last year said that it was a bad market. You had one guy who got a good deal quickly, Nola, and that was because the Phillies said they were keeping him. Everything else was teams looking for value. Interestingly...the one pitcher left over right now is the one with the most parallels to Cease career-wise in John Flaherty. It's a lot more complex than a binary yes-no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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