WhiteSox2023 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 6 minutes ago, tray said: WTF is this thread about ? A bad team with a bad owner who promoted a guy to GM that is in over his head and making bad moves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 9 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: A bad team with a bad owner who promoted a guy to GM that is in over his head and making bad moves. It reads like more of the same .. miserable little people who complain about everything and think the world owes them something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 8 minutes ago, tray said: It reads like more of the same .. miserable little people who complain about everything and think the world owes them something. "Think about your favorite baseball team. Think about the many times a sports team you root for made a baffling decision. Think about the roster rebuild that never seems to end. Now imagine something new. Imagine buying a membership in your favorite team. Imagine voting on who runs the team or on how to finance stadium upgrades. Maybe you should even run for election to the board of directors. You would go to the ballpark knowing that every dollar you spent would go back into the team. Imagine how much better every hot dog and every beer will taste! “Get another round, we need a new shortstop!” you tell your friends, while you ponder that day’s scoreboard stumper." https://sabr.org/journal/article/democracy-at-the-ballpark-looking-towards-a-fan-owned-future/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 9 minutes ago, tray said: It reads like more of the same .. miserable little people who complain about everything and think the world owes them something. What does the Sox sucking balls have to do with the world owing anyone anything? The world didn’t gift Sox fans with a record setting season of futility. Jerry earned that achievement all by himself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 18 minutes ago, tray said: It reads like more of the same .. miserable little people who complain about everything and think the world owes them something. If someone offered you a job, that paid 25m or more per year, to stand in Market Square and let the entire city of Pittsburgh yell at you, would you take that job ? That job is owning the Pirates. Why would they sell ? https://t.co/PI8se807lH — Mark Cuban (@mcuban) August 29, 2024 I'll only take issue with the part about standing in public and letting people yell at you. Nutting doesn't do that. He doesn't even listen to people online. He just rakes in the proceeds and doesn't give us any indication that he cares all too much about how the team on the field performs. Oh sure, we'll hear on occasion about how he isn't making any money and how much of a chore it is to own a baseball team. To that line of thinking, I have a simple suggestion: Sell the team. The Royals are a small-market team. They were sold for $1 billion in 2019. The Orioles were sold for $1.725 billion earlier this year. The Nutting family bought the Pirates for $92 million in 1996. I'd say the return on investment is enough to justify cutting bait on the team right now, right? That is, of course, unless they are making a ton of money by owning the team. Think about it. My hunch is Cuban's suggestion that the family is making around $25 million a year is low. https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/snyders-soapbox-on-good-owners-bad-owners-and-why-mlb-fans-should-always-root-for-teams-to-spend-more-money/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) Major League Baseball's ownership class is a blighted place these days. To be sure, team owners in broad terms have operated cynically and lied about their finances in order to curry sympathy with fans and provide cover for their unwillingness to spend. Lately, though, the game has been afflicted by the likes of John Fisher in Oakland, Bob Nutting in Pittsburgh, the Dolans in Cleveland, Jerry Reinsdorf on the South Side of Chicago, and increasingly in recent years John Henry in Boston. These are owners who best embody the "portfolio holding" school of thought, in which the team basically functions as a source of passive income while also functioning as a market-beating long-term investment. Winning baseball games is at best a secondary objective or even a pleasing coincidence. It's remarkable how special this city is as a fan base (Philly). It's why I keep telling everybody, it may be a privately-held business that we own, but it's not a private organization. It's a very public organization. It's a stewardship. We have an obligation. We are accountable to the fans and to the city. If you don't approach it that way, you shouldn't be an owner, in my opinion." Whether most his guild prefers to acknowledge it, Major League Baseball teams require stewardship such as John Middleton's because they are at heart civic treasures, not index funds or ETFs or shares of crypto intended solely to enrich the possessor. To be sure, the possessor will indeed be enriched greatly for his or her efforts, but succeeding on the field is what matters most. https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/phillies-owner-john-middleton-understands-his-obligation-to-fans-and-he-has-a-message-to-owners-who-disagree/ Tray, any fan who is below the ownership level is by definition “the little guy.” Edited February 9 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 So, Matt, you're telling billionaires how to spend their money? No, I'm absolutely not. They aren't required to follow my wishes. They can do whatever they want with their teams, within the CBA rules. I'm also allowed to shame them for being cheap and dishonest. They can deal with those insults. They should be forced to deal with them a lot more often, in fact. Please join me. They are billionaires and you are a loser sportswriter, so they obviously know more about business than you. OK, so first off, most of these owners were born into wealth, so gimme a break on those. As I've said multiple times about the A's owner, being born to parents who founded The Gap isn't a skill. You all know the analogy about being born on third base and acting like you hit a triple. Well, he was born about a step off of home plate and struts around like he hit a bomb. …. If you hate the owners, you must be a socialist. Yes, I've heard this before and it's an embarrassing take. The best players should make the most money (meritocracy) and I simply want the owners to take care of their customer base, which is a basic tenet of any business model. Bad ownership hurts the enjoyment of the fans and that's just not acceptable to me. It's weird how many small-market fans get angry at me for getting angry at ownership for not better taking care of them as fans. I'm on your side. I want the owners of your favorite teams to stop lying to you and instead try to give you a lot more fun memories. For now, my biggest hope is that I'll stop seeing fans worried about their favorite team signing a generationally great player and then I'll settle for seeing less caping for owners in general. And I really wish we could drive the Nuttings of the league out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 1 hour ago, tray said: It reads like more of the same .. miserable little people who complain about everything and think the world owes them something. This from the guy making morality judgments of those who feel they don't owe Jerry Reinsdorf a dime. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) 12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: This from the guy making morality judgments of those who feel they don't owe Jerry Reinsdorf a dime. And the same owner who wants taxpayers to pay for his new stadium. The irony is delicious. Apparently, the world only owes Jerry something… Edited February 9 by WhiteSox2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 14 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: And the same owner who wants taxpayers to pay for his new stadium. The irony is delicious. Apparently, the world only owes Jerry something… Job creators... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 2 hours ago, Snopek said: I just wanna give a shout out to the “HOT!” tag that shows up on some threads for helping identify which ones currently have bickering, and thus which ones to avoid. Those are the most entertaining! Occasionally. Sometimes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: If he was ready for the level at 19, then his performance is important. The only way his age being an excuse matters is if he wasn't ready and played there anyway I don’t think development is linear. And also, my goodness this thread sucks. 5 1 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 All I’ve read of this thread is page 6. Anything I’ve missed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 15 minutes ago, JoeC said: All I’ve read of this thread is page 6. Anything I’ve missed? Sammy Zavala is a bust because of "people", batting avg and Courtney Hawkins. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 55 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: Sammy Zavala is a bust because of "people", batting avg and Courtney Hawkins. Courtney Hawkins references - I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 1 hour ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: Sammy Zavala is a bust because of "people", batting avg and Courtney Hawkins. Well yeah, a batting average far below the Uecker line would pretty much always indicate a bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: Well yeah, a batting average far below the Uecker line would pretty much always indicate a bust. Nah, everything is fine. Sox player development will fix him, just like they always do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 Too soon to throw out “bust” in regards to Zavala. Didn’t have anywhere close to a good season but looks like he’s made adjustments. Lets see how it translates this year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 32 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Too soon to throw out “bust” in regards to Zavala. Didn’t have anywhere close to a good season but looks like he’s made adjustments. Lets see how it translates this year. How many current big leaguers do you think ever had a full season at a minor league level where they hit under .180? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 41 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Too soon to throw out “bust” in regards to Zavala. Didn’t have anywhere close to a good season but looks like he’s made adjustments. Lets see how it translates this year. I mean he's not dead yet, but those are some pretty major red flags between performance and attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 16 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: How many current big leaguers do you think ever had a full season at a minor league level where they hit under .180? His BABIP was .234 last season. That is the 7th lowest in all of minor league baseball for hitters with 400+ plate appearances. Obviously I have no context around what drove that, but it’s well below his career marks up until that point. More likely than not, that figure will normalize quite a bit next year. Doesn’t change the fact it’s a red flag, but I’d rather have a prospect with a low BABIP than one with a super high K rate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: How many current big leaguers do you think ever had a full season at a minor league level where they hit under .180? I don’t have a lot of faith in him but he shouldn’t be completely written off yet. I hope he proves me wrong. Edited February 9 by Bob Sacamano 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) 3 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: Sammy Zavala is a bust because of "people", batting avg and Courtney Hawkins. This is madness. The guy hit .187 with a .641 OPS. Let’s pretend Zavala was still on some other team. If we were talking about guys to acquire for Robert, not one person would be thrilled with getting back Zavala for him. People would be wondering why we would take back such a bust prospect for Robert. The only reason people are “hopeful” about Zavala is because we are stuck with him now and if he doesn’t pan out, the Cease trade looks even worse than it already does. Edited February 9 by WhiteSox2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 2 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: This is madness. The guy hit .187 with a .641 OPS. Let’s pretend Zavala was still on some other team. If we were talking about guys to acquire for Robert, not one person would be thrilled with getting back Zavala for him. People would be wondering why we would take back such a bust prospect for Robert. The only reason people are “hopeful” about Zavala is because we are stuck with him now and if he doesn’t pan out, the Cease trade looks even worse than it already does. Harold makes fun of others, but his track record as a prospect guru is pretty lame. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) 3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: His BABIP was .234 last season. That is the 7th lowest in all of minor league baseball for hitters with 400+ plate appearances. Obviously I have no context around what drove that, but it’s well below his career marks up until that point. More likely than not, that figure will normalize quite a bit next year. Doesn’t change the fact it’s a red flag, but I’d rather have a prospect with a low BABIP than one with a super high K rate. While I get all that, keep in mind, this is A ball, and there are questions about his attitude. It will be a miracle if he’s ever useful. Edited February 9 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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