Ownership breakdown: ishbias 35%, Reinsdorfs 50%

[Texsox]

While I agree on most of what you posted, there are a few ways to determine who is a "major employer". 

Could it be that those 81 days, 83 on a great year, bring in more revenue and contribute more to the local economy than the vape store on the corner? Three people working 364 days might be less that hundreds of people working 81 days. 

I know, for example, many businesses on South Padre Island make most of their profits in March, June, and July. 

For me if they move from the southside, go all the way to the suburbs. Don't half ass go to a different neighborhood. 

[southsider2k5]

41 minutes ago, Texsox said:

While I agree on most of what you posted, there are a few ways to determine who is a "major employer". 

Could it be that those 81 days, 83 on a great year, bring in more revenue and contribute more to the local economy than the vape store on the corner? Three people working 364 days might be less that hundreds of people working 81 days. 

I know, for example, many businesses on South Padre Island make most of their profits in March, June, and July. 

For me if they move from the southside, go all the way to the suburbs. Don't half ass go to a different neighborhood. 

This would be more like SPI not having any bars, restaurants, or hotels, so people could literally only go there to go to the beach, and then leave.  People would spend more time there if they had all of those options included in the immediate area, vs having to go back to the mainland to get them.  It would generate more jobs, and more fully day trips.

[Texsox]

28 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This would be more like SPI not having any bars, restaurants, or hotels, so people could literally only go there to go to the beach, and then leave.  People would spend more time there if they had all of those options included in the immediate area, vs having to go back to the mainland to get them.  It would generate more jobs, and more fully day trips.

I think we're looking at two different aspects. I'm pointing out that looking at hours of operation is just one part of the equation. Total revenue is also important. 

But, that does make me wonder if Illinois residents are going to contribute to a new stadium*, should it really matter if someone going to the game stops and has dinner in the suburbs, north side, or closer to the park? The money will be spent. Where it is spent with public money involved, might not be that important. 

*Not advocating for that. 

[77 Hitmen]

14 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

A downtown ballpark is infinitely more accessible by  ALL  transportation lines.  This location is dead.  Nothing happens here.  You options are come and leave.  There is no experience.  There is no excitement after a game.  It is get and your car and leave, because you can't stay here.  There is no making a day of it.  You speak of employment,  but it would be way better for "employment " to have more jobs connected to the Sox, right?  So how about a ballpark complex which could add thousands of jobs?  We are talking about a few extra train stops (or walking for someone who digs it)for anyone who lives in the area AND they don't have to put up with the negative externalities that you tell me the hate so much.  Win-Win!  More jobs, less traffic and drunks!  So much more walkability yeah!

I am impressed you managed to call all of the neutral ballpark reviewers who routinely and consistently rate this park as one of the absolute worst in baseball, racists. I don't think you have been to many other ballparks if that is your first thought.  Besides if the residents are that bothered by the fans, there is one really obvious fix.

 It is reviewed as generic, large scale, and completely lacks and personality on pretty much every list that exists. Because of it, we see near zero baseball tourism like other major markets see, and no attendance boost from the daily experience.  Sox fans go when the team is good, and that's it.  That's not me, that's it's national reputation.   If you are content with that because it keeps tickets cheap, cool.  I would like more out of this franchise and fixing the biggest mistakes of this ballpark would be a step in the right direction. 

Spot on summary.  People can puff up their chests in Sox pride all they want and say the current park is "just fine to me," but what you are saying here is the cold, hard reality of how people outside of our fanbase view the current ballpark and its surroundings.   Because of this, my guess is that the Ishbias are going to make a South Loop ballpark a reality after they assume control of the team after Jerry is gone.  They didn't drop their Twins bid to buy a more expensive franchise only to continue on with a forgettable ballpark surrounded by acres of parking lots for the next 30-40 years. 

I suppose the other alternative would be for them to do massive renovations to the current park and determine that building a thriving entertainment district around the current site (one that can draw customers the 284 non-game days of the year) will work.  Maybe....it's not impossible, but I have serious doubts about that.

  

[Lyle Moooton]

7 hours ago, 77 Hitmen said:

Spot on summary.  People can puff up their chests in Sox pride all they want and say the current park is "just fine to me," but what you are saying here is the cold, hard reality of how people outside of our fanbase view the current ballpark and its surroundings.   Because of this, my guess is that the Ishbias are going to make a South Loop ballpark a reality after they assume control of the team after Jerry is gone.  They didn't drop their Twins bid to buy a more expensive franchise only to continue on with a forgettable ballpark surrounded by acres of parking lots for the next 30-40 years. 

I suppose the other alternative would be for them to do massive renovations to the current park and determine that building a thriving entertainment district around the current site (one that can draw customers the 284 non-game days of the year) will work.  Maybe....it's not impossible, but I have serious doubts about that.

  

The last guy I talked to where I live and had gone to the Rate described it as “that place fucking sucks” 

I also think that’s the only guy I know that actually went to a Sox game because everyone else who visits Chicago just goes to Wrigley. 
 

Anecdotal, but that’s my personal experience. 

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, Lyle Moooton said:

The last guy I talked to where I live and had gone to the Rate described it as “that place fucking sucks” 

I also think that’s the only guy I know that actually went to a Sox game because everyone else who visits Chicago just goes to Wrigley. 
 

Anecdotal, but that’s my personal experience. 

The team is historically bad, coupled with one of the disappointed/frustrated MLB home crowds over the last 2-3 seasons. Largely due to that acquired apathy due to mostly pedestrian players (other than Crochet)...pathetic Campfire Milkshakes and other concession items are the real highlight, along with ease/accessibility of overpriced parking. 

[Harry Chappas]

The park is fine.  It is not a draw but it does not suck or have anything really negative about it.  It is vanilla, always has been and always will be.   

If you are White Sox fan and they are winning it is great.  If they are not winning it is not worth going. 

I can get good/great food and beer there but I can get better food and cheaper beer elsewhere. 

[southsider2k5]

54 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

The park is fine.  It is not a draw but it does not suck or have anything really negative about it.  It is vanilla, always has been and always will be.   

If you are White Sox fan and they are winning it is great.  If they are not winning it is not worth going. 

I can get good/great food and beer there but I can get better food and cheaper beer elsewhere. 

In 2025 vanilla is the definition of left behind when it comes to the currentgame day experience.  Modern ballparks have style, themes, and experiences.   This ballpark is a 1970s style cookie cutter in an entertainment desert.  This ballpark also completely lacks any history or personality of old era parks to make up for its sterility, that allows the enjoyment of places like Fenway and Wrigley. Vanilla and boring is exactly why it doesn't resonate with people. 

[Lyle Moooton]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

The team is historically bad, coupled with one of the disappointed/frustrated MLB home crowds over the last 2-3 seasons. Largely due to that acquired apathy due to mostly pedestrian players (other than Crochet)...pathetic Campfire Milkshakes and other concession items are the real highlight, along with ease/accessibility of overpriced parking. 

That has nothing to do with what I posted, especially because I believe it was 2019 when he went.

[caulfield12]

47 minutes ago, Lyle Moooton said:

That has nothing to do with what I posted, especially because I believe it was 2019 when he went.

They had promise in theory, and more fun being around Renteria, but the 2019 team of younger prospects didn't start rounding into form until the second half that year. 

Nowhere until now did you note it was 2019. 

You can't retroactively add critical information and then complain about a response. 

Nevertheless, the White Sox were 23rd in attendance that season.  Point still stands...unless it was a fireworks night or giveaway/promotional event that had 30,000+ attendance. 

Even filling the bottom bowl closing the upper deck still leaves a ghost-like empty feeling when you take in the whole entire stadium...unless you start tarping over entire sections like the Oakland Coliseum or old Cleveland Memorial Stadium. 

Edited May 1 by caulfield12

[Lyle Moooton]

21 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

They had promise in theory, and more fun being around Renteria, but the 2019 team of younger prospects didn't start rounding into form until the second half that year. 

Nowhere until now did you note it was 2019. 

You can't retroactively add critical information and then complain about a response. 

Nevertheless, the White Sox were 23rd in attendance that season.  Point still stands...unless it was a fireworks night or giveaway/promotional event that had 30,000+ attendance. 

Even filling the bottom bowl closing the upper deck still leaves a ghost-like empty feeling when you take in the whole entire stadium...unless you start tarping over entire sections like the Oakland Coliseum or old Cleveland Memorial Stadium. 

Because I felt it was irrelevant. He was speaking about the stadium. I’m not arguing with you about this further because this place is already 3 people hijacking every thread arguing about stupid s%*#. If you disagree I respect that and let’s move on. 

[caulfield12]

Here's an analogy. 

Guaranteed Rate is like Carver Hawkeye Arena... and CHA still is more interesting looking/weird from the outside. 

The last 2-3 years the worst men's BB environment in G10 other than maybe PSU or Rutgers.  Zero students near the action in favor of boosters.  Ice cream the big selling point lol.  Antiseptic and totally boring with 5-6000 average out of 15,500 cap.  Totally dead. 

Put Caitlin Clark on the floor and even this year without her playing 15,500 SRO sellouts in nearly every single game.  Biggest home court advantage in NCAA women's BB from consecutive national title game appearances. Huge ratings success, etc. 

The White Sox simply need a superstar or legit (sustainable) winning team.  Which JR refuses to provide because it's just too expensive and the opportunity cost isn't worth the financial pain from his short term perspective. 

(Ofc all those sellouts were only possible due to the falloff from the men's team, maybe a Ben McCollum miracle Sweet 16 season, first in nearly 30 years and putting students near the court will actually reverse that. 

Conversely, the Cubs sucking next year or losing Tucker to FA might dent their latest run of dominance via a vis the Sox as well.  If only the Sox had a compelling competitive product to put on the field.) 

Edited May 1 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

10 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Here's an analogy. 

Guaranteed Rate is like Carver Hawkeye Arena... and CHA still is more interesting looking/weird from the outside. 

The last 2-3 years the worst men's BB environment in G10 other than maybe PSU or Rutgers.  Zero students near the action in favor of boosters.  Ice cream the big selling point lol.  Antiseptic and totally boring with 5-6000 average out of 15,500 cap.  Totally dead. 

Put Caitlin Clark on the floor and even this year without her playing 15,500 SRO sellouts in nearly every single game.  Biggest home court advantage in NCAA women's BB from consecutive national title game appearances. Huge ratings success, etc. 

The White Sox simply need a superstar or legit (sustainable) winning team.  Which JR refuses to provide because it's just too expensive and the opportunity cost isn't worth the financial pain from his short term perspective. 

(Ofc all those sellouts were only possible due to the falloff from the men's team, maybe a Ben McCollum miracle Sweet 16 season, first in nearly 30 years and putting students near the court will actually reverse that. 

Conversely, the Cubs sucking next year or losing Tucker to FA might dent their latest run of dominance via a vis the Sox as well.  If only the Sox had a compelling competitive product to put on the field.) 

The separation here isn't that fans show up when they win, it's that with a decent stadium and the right experience in the right area, they might still get people to show up when things are mediocre to bad.

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The separation here isn't that fans show up when they win, it's that with a decent stadium and the right experience in the right area, they might still get people to show up when things are mediocre to bad.

Iowa does hold some inherent advantages that the White Sox don't. 

Little real financial competition from NBA MLB NHL and no NFL football.  Captive audience.  Sure Iowa State has been able to create better BB environments for thirty years now, but the Kinnick (an older stadium that has historicity, Ferentz and the Children's Hospital salute all going for it) experience is overall Top 10-15 in all of college FB when Iowa is a competitive team. 

[Kyyle23]

Wat

[caulfield12]

37 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Wat

Name an uglier basketball stadium that can consistently draw sellouts of 15000+ per game…?

Carrier Dome in Syracuse, maybe?

 

https://roadtocfb.com/2020/10/13/bottom-10-halfway-there/

Tray could seize on GRate being better than some of these awful college fb stadiums at least…author is pretty darned funny in his vivid descriptions.

Edited May 1 by caulfield12

[tray]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

In 2025 vanilla is the definition of left behind when it comes to the currentgame day experience.  Modern ballparks have style, themes, and experiences.   This ballpark is a 1970s style cookie cutter in an entertainment desert.  This ballpark also completely lacks any history or personality of old era parks to make up for its sterility, that allows the enjoyment of places like Fenway and Wrigley. Vanilla and boring is exactly why it doesn't resonate with people. 

As older Chicago fans recall, the Cubs drastically increased their fan base decades ago, ironically, because of free OTA  broadcast/antenna TV and Harry Carey moving his drunken rambling broadcasts to the Northside, NOT because they always had winning/championship team.

As for  proponents of  the Wrigley experience (i.e., going to eclectic bars after games)  they should go there for however many games they attend each year. Have fun. It is a nice experience, especially for North siders.

As for old era baseball park architecture, Ricketts destroyed part of that by demolishing and rebuilding taller bleachers  with a  giant scoreboard atop them in LF, and scoreboards and advertising signs in RF to block the views to and from classic Chicago graystone buildings.  I recall sitting down the 3rd base line many years ago and seeing  Dave Kingman hit a 500 foot blast over Waveland  and  likewise watching Ch. 9  as Brickhouse did his "Hey-Hey" as Banks hit his 500th.

A new ballpark on 35th street can capture much of the features that made the original Wrigley and the original Comiskey special, including bleachers facing North where balls can be hit outta here instead of banging off a scoreboard. Original Comiskey originally had that  (way back when) as well. They can also come up with residential and commercial development  including bars for the patrons that like to congregate  after games. McCuddy's 2.0 , Turtles, etc.   Maybe relocate Armor Park although that is another issue.

 

[Kyyle23]

9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Name an uglier basketball stadium that can consistently draw sellouts of 15000+ per game…?

Carrier Dome in Syracuse, maybe?

You are the pancakes and waffles meme.  Like every damn time 

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

You are the pancakes and waffles meme.  Like every damn time 

Maybe the White Sox simply need to take things to the next level then and mimic the Savannah Bananas…that’s the only other way to draw crowds in that stadium other than sustainably-winning teams.

GRate subjectively becomes even worse when you put THE VERY WORST possible teams on the field.

[DFAthewave69420]

7 hours ago, Harry Chappas said:

The park is fine.  It is not a draw but it does not suck or have anything really negative about it.  It is vanilla, always has been and always will be.   

If you are White Sox fan and they are winning it is great.  If they are not winning it is not worth going. 

I can get good/great food and beer there but I can get better food and cheaper beer elsewhere. 

One hour to sit in traffic from the suburbs plus another hour to leave the stadium and get home after a 2 hour pitch clock game just isn’t worth the price & experience anymore with this team.

[pcq]

On 4/30/2025 at 9:06 AM, southsider2k5 said:

A downtown ballpark is infinitely more accessible by  ALL  transportation lines.  This location is dead.  Nothing happens here.  You options are come and leave.  There is no experience.  There is no excitement after a game.  It is get and your car and leave, because you can't stay here.  There is no making a day of it.  You speak of employment,  but it would be way better for "employment " to have more jobs connected to the Sox, right?  So how about a ballpark complex which could add thousands of jobs?  We are talking about a few extra train stops (or walking for someone who digs it)for anyone who lives in the area AND they don't have to put up with the negative externalities that you tell me the hate so much.  Win-Win!  More jobs, less traffic and drunks!  So much more walkability yeah!

I am impressed you managed to call all of the neutral ballpark reviewers who routinely and consistently rate this park as one of the absolute worst in baseball, racists. I don't think you have been to many other ballparks if that is your first thought.  Besides if the residents are that bothered by the fans, there is one really obvious fix.

 It is reviewed as generic, large scale, and completely lacks and personality on pretty much every list that exists. Because of it, we see near zero baseball tourism like other major markets see, and no attendance boost from the daily experience.  Sox fans go when the team is good, and that's it.  That's not me, that's it's national reputation.   If you are content with that because it keeps tickets cheap, cool.  I would like more out of this franchise and fixing the biggest mistakes of this ballpark would be a step in the right direction. 

The park is much better than it's lessee. It is not retro so what. Also Roger built a field at 78 we could play there with lawn chairs. 

[southsider2k5]

42 minutes ago, pcq said:

The park is much better than it's lessee. It is not retro so what. Also Roger built a field at 78 we could play there with lawn chairs. 

Boring and generic IS better than literally the worst team ever, so I guess that's a win?

[southsider2k5]

3 hours ago, tray said:

As older Chicago fans recall, the Cubs drastically increased their fan base decades ago, ironically, because of free OTA  broadcast/antenna TV and Harry Carey moving his drunken rambling broadcasts to the Northside, NOT because they always had winning/championship team.

As for  proponents of  the Wrigley experience (i.e., going to eclectic bars after games)  they should go there for however many games they attend each year. Have fun. It is a nice experience, especially for North siders.

As for old era baseball park architecture, Ricketts destroyed part of that by demolishing and rebuilding taller bleachers  with a  giant scoreboard atop them in LF, and scoreboards and advertising signs in RF to block the views to and from classic Chicago graystone buildings.  I recall sitting down the 3rd base line many years ago and seeing  Dave Kingman hit a 500 foot blast over Waveland  and  likewise watching Ch. 9  as Brickhouse did his "Hey-Hey" as Banks hit his 500th.

A new ballpark on 35th street can capture much of the features that made the original Wrigley and the original Comiskey special, including bleachers facing North where balls can be hit outta here instead of banging off a scoreboard. Original Comiskey originally had that  (way back when) as well. They can also come up with residential and commercial development  including bars for the patrons that like to congregate  after games. McCuddy's 2.0 , Turtles, etc.   Maybe relocate Armor Park although that is another issue.

 

Maybe at your age you have forgotten, but this was the story we were fed when they built the last park 35 years ago.  Instead they destroyed the charm of the immediate area and turned into into a sea of mostly empty parking lots.

[Buehrle>Wood]

On 4/30/2025 at 10:06 AM, southsider2k5 said:

A downtown ballpark is infinitely more accessible by  ALL  transportation lines. 

Like downtown being the loop? Sure. But any new park isn't being built downtown. And no one goes "downtown" after 5 anyways. Otherwise, no it's not. They have a very accessible park for transportation that likely can't be replicated without new infrastructure. I'm cool with a new park but that one is a losing argument.

[77 Hitmen]

9 hours ago, Harry Chappas said:

The park is fine.  It is not a draw but it does not suck or have anything really negative about it.  It is vanilla, always has been and always will be.   

If you are White Sox fan and they are winning it is great.  If they are not winning it is not worth going. 

I can get good/great food and beer there but I can get better food and cheaper beer elsewhere. 

 

8 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

In 2025 vanilla is the definition of left behind when it comes to the current game day experience.  Modern ballparks have style, themes, and experiences.   This ballpark is a 1970s style cookie cutter in an entertainment desert.  This ballpark also completely lacks any history or personality of old era parks to make up for its sterility, that allows the enjoyment of places like Fenway and Wrigley. Vanilla and boring is exactly why it doesn't resonate with people. 

Exactly.   The best that can be said about the current park is that die hard Sox fans think it's fine and doesn't suck.

There's a reason why it's consistently ranked near the bottom of stadium rankings.   The design became outdated about a year after it opened.  They did an admirable job in the early 2000s to improve the character of the park, but it's never going to be seen as anything but generic and forgettable to people outside the core fan based.  

And the economics of drawing people to the ballpark have indeed changed in recent years.  Ballparks in entertainment deserts just aren't going to draw big crowds for most teams.  That's why you see so many MLB parks adding entertainment districts if they aren't already located near other things to do.