14 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Does roch have a single tool better than Bobby?

His name.

Maybe the wrong audience, but is no one concerned that he's literally gotten worse YoY? And im not just talking about counting stats and babip luck.

Walk rate is down. ISO is down. K rate is up.

People keep posting big ten game results with ooo's and ahhh's. He's playing the big ten vs future accountants, he should mash. The concerning thing is he's mashing less.

The last thing you want to draft is a maxed out player.

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Maybe the wrong audience, but is no one concerned that he's literally gotten worse YoY? And im not just talking about counting stats and babip luck.

Walk rate is down. ISO is down. K rate is up.

People keep posting big ten game results with ooo's and ahhh's. He's playing the big ten vs future accountants, he should mash. The concerning thing is he's mashing less.

The last thing you want to draft is a maxed out player.

Someone on The Score the other day (Callis maybe?) said that Emerson is better now than when Roch was his age. Said if you went tool to tool, Emerson is faster but Roch is better defensively. I also like that he hits left-handed. Idk, I don't think I would be disappointed if they took either honestly.

34 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Maybe the wrong audience, but is no one concerned that he's literally gotten worse YoY? And im not just talking about counting stats and babip luck.

Walk rate is down. ISO is down. K rate is up.

People keep posting big ten game results with ooo's and ahhh's. He's playing the big ten vs future accountants, he should mash. The concerning thing is he's mashing less.

The last thing you want to draft is a maxed out player.

That's some Andrew Vaughn PTSD right there. His batting stance is also kinda similar to Vaughn's, which doesn't help.

3 minutes ago, chw42 said:

That's some Andrew Vaughn PTSD right there. His batting stance is also kinda similar to Vaughn's, which doesn't help.

The critical difference is that Vaughn is a 1B/DH and Roch has a 3 WAR floor basically as a competent big league SS.

Tork and Vaughn never really worked out. You have to HIT HIT HIT to be a valuable regular as a 1B/DH. Especially as a RHB.

To me this is just a no brainer. You take the guy that has a guaranteed floor as a solid regular. We don't need a HR, we need a solid base hit here.

Edited Thursday at 10:04 PM1 day by chitownsportsfan

2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

The critical difference is that Vaughn is a 1B/DH and Roch has a 3 WAR floor basically as a competent big league SS.

Tork and Vaughn never really worked out. You have to HIT HIT HIT to be a valuable regular as a 1B/DH. Especially as a RHB.

To me this is just a no brainer. You take the guy that has a guaranteed floor as a solid regular. We don't need a HR, we need a solid base hit here.

I'm not saying they're that alike other than the fact they're both college hitters who destroyed college pitching. The fact that their hitting mechanics look kind of similar just gives me some PTSD. Roch is a much better athlete relative to other SS than Vaughn is at 1B. So I doubt we see Roch hit the physical wall that ended up dooming Vaughn.

Roch is 100% the safer pick with the highest floor. You don't see a lot of 65 FV prospects coming out of college. I don't really think the Sox should overthink it. We tend to get prospect fatigue with guys who are locked in as the #1 pick early like Roch and Caleb Williams. But they got that hype because they are special.

1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Someone on The Score the other day (Callis maybe?) said that Emerson is better now than when Roch was his age. Said if you went tool to tool, Emerson is faster but Roch is better defensively. I also like that he hits left-handed. Idk, I don't think I would be disappointed if they took either honestly.

Roch is closer to the big leagues than Emerson. If Emerson was a college player, this might be a much different conversation. I’m not sure if the Sox should be drafting #1 based on the floor of the player, and age fit with the current team.

Edited Thursday at 11:19 PM1 day by Chick Mercedes

1 hour ago, chw42 said:

I'm not saying they're that alike other than the fact they're both college hitters who destroyed college pitching. The fact that their hitting mechanics look kind of similar just gives me some PTSD. Roch is a much better athlete relative to other SS than Vaughn is at 1B. So I doubt we see Roch hit the physical wall that ended up dooming Vaughn.

Roch is 100% the safer pick with the highest floor. You don't see a lot of 65 FV prospects coming out of college. I don't really think the Sox should overthink it. We tend to get prospect fatigue with guys who are locked in as the #1 pick early like Roch and Caleb Williams. But they got that hype because they are special.

I think Vaughn being moved to LF wasn't the greatest idea, also he didn't really spend much time at all in the minors (55g) with a horrible ground ball:fly ball rate

couple that with the fact that the former regime didn't have anyone in place that could actually develop hitting in the whole org

a lot of hitterish college guys get to pro (milb) ball and don't hit right away, Vaughn wasn't the first.

imo nitpicking roch's stats YoY is just that, nit picking, they're almost identical.

if they go with Emerson, I would be surprised

fan graphs has their draft list up and Roch's numbers stand out so far above all the other college hitters, they don't have anything listed for Emerson right now as far as stats

2 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Someone on The Score the other day (Callis maybe?) said that Emerson is better now than when Roch was his age. Said if you went tool to tool, Emerson is faster but Roch is better defensively. I also like that he hits left-handed. Idk, I don't think I would be disappointed if they took either honestly.

This is gonna suck fretting over. I wish there was simply no doubt who the guy to take at #1 is.

Edited Thursday at 11:34 PM1 day by WhiteSox2023

2 hours ago, chw42 said:

That's some Andrew Vaughn PTSD right there. His batting stance is also kinda similar to Vaughn's, which doesn't help.

I will go to my grave with if Andrew Vaughn doesn't skip the minors and go to LF immediately, he ends up a completely different player.

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I will go to my grave with if Andrew Vaughn doesn't skip the minors and go to LF immediately, he ends up a completely different player.

Looking back at that move, it looks even more pathetic now. The Sox were so cheap, they took an unfinished draft pick that was an obvious 1B at best and called him up to play the outfield, where he had no hope of being good defensively.

6 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

Who is the last top 3 college position prospect who actually went out and panned out. Looking back the last 5 years I don't see any top end college position prospect who hit (ie top 3 ranked). I may be missing someone? Baz / Cags are maybe the best of the bunch.

5 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Maybe the wrong audience, but is no one concerned that he's literally gotten worse YoY? And im not just talking about counting stats and babip luck.

Walk rate is down. ISO is down. K rate is up.

People keep posting big ten game results with ooo's and ahhh's. He's playing the big ten vs future accountants, he should mash. The concerning thing is he's mashing less.

The last thing you want to draft is a maxed out player.

Cholowsky is the best college shortstop in like 20 years. These guys usually go pro out of high school. There are some recent college guys who look pretty good though. Kurtz and Wetherholt both very good and Roch is a plus defender at shortstop.

Cholowsky's numbers are basically the same as last year. K rate up a tad, walk rate down a tad. Power is similar, chase rate is better, exit velo similar etc. And teams don't really pitch to him that often. I'm actually more impressed with his junior year than sophomore year.

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Cholowsky is the best college shortstop in like 20 years. These guys usually go pro out of high school. There are some recent college guys who look pretty good though. Kurtz and Wetherholt both very good and Roch is a plus defender at shortstop.

Cholowsky's numbers are basically the same as last year. K rate up a tad, walk rate down a tad. Power is similar, chase rate is better, exit velo similar etc. And teams don't really pitch to him that often. I'm actually more impressed with his junior year than sophomore year.

Mine wasn’t arguing picking him - more just curious who was last guy who was out that profiled like him from college / last high end college player who just crushed it.

14 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Mine wasn’t arguing picking him - more just curious who was last guy who was out that profiled like him from college / last high end college player who just crushed it.

JD Drew?

11 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

JD Drew?

He was taken 5th overall in 1998. Pat Burrell was taken first overall that year.

11 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

He was taken 5th overall in 1998. Pat Burrell was taken first overall that year.

But that was largely due to signability issues.

Burrell was arguably a better basketball player.

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/every-no-1-mlb-draft-prospect-from-the-last-25-years/

Probably the closest comp for an NCAA prospect is Adley Rutschman 2019.

Or Torkelson as best ncaa hitter at ASU and 1-1 pick to Detroit.

Obviously not a SS.

Dylan Crews/OF...but not consensus #1

Edited 9 hours ago9 hr by caulfield12

13 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Cholowsky is the best college shortstop in like 20 years. These guys usually go pro out of high school. There are some recent college guys who look pretty good though. Kurtz and Wetherholt both very good and Roch is a plus defender at shortstop.

Cholowsky's numbers are basically the same as last year. K rate up a tad, walk rate down a tad. Power is similar, chase rate is better, exit velo similar etc. And teams don't really pitch to him that often. I'm actually more impressed with his junior year than sophomore year.

All I need right here lmao.

28 minutes ago, Quin said:

All I need right here lmao.

Since Troy Tulowitzki at Cal State Long Beach.

Drafted 7th in 2005.

Roch has gotten a lot of prospect fatigue over the last week or so. Roch has a higher floor than Emerson and I think fits the timeline of the Sox better.

Offensively, Sox are in an awesome position position player wise.

I don't want a high schooler at 1-1. I'm kicking 90 and don't have time for a 5-year plan.

41 minutes ago, oldsox said:

I don't want a high schooler at 1-1. I'm kicking 90 and don't have time for a 5-year plan.

Hopefully they can field a competitive team for you to watch soon.

1 hour ago, GGajewski18 said:

Roch has gotten a lot of prospect fatigue over the last week or so. Roch has a higher floor than Emerson and I think fits the timeline of the Sox better.

Offensively, Sox are in an awesome position position player wise.

I remember when the Astros and Marlins tricked themselves into thinking Aiken and Kolek would be better than Rodon.

Obviously Rodon didn't live up to his ceiling, but 22 fWAR isn't anything to sneeze at.

1 hour ago, oldsox said:

I don't want a high schooler at 1-1. I'm kicking 90 and don't have time for a 5-year plan.

More than anything, this sounds like Jerry, which is why I have said all along, if the other things are close, proximity to the majors and rush-ability tie break

7 minutes ago, Quin said:

I remember when the Astros and Marlins tricked themselves into thinking Aiken and Kolek would be better than Rodon.

Obviously Rodon didn't live up to his ceiling, but 22 fWAR isn't anything to sneeze at.

Exactly. We've gone high school quite a bit recently. Go Roch at 1.1 and then HS in rounds 2/3 and we're good with the influx of talent that we already have.

15 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

More than anything, this sounds like Jerry, which is why I have said all along, if the other things are close, proximity to the majors and rush-ability tie break

It has nothing to do with that and everything to do with timeline and floor. A HS player's floor is basically replacement level, no matter how good they are in prep. Roch's floor is basically 3 WAR SS.