20 minutes ago, Tony said:

At 26, given his hitting profile and position, he should have another 5-6 years of production at his current level. Not saying this HR pace will continue, we need to see more data, but given what we know at this point, I'm not comfortable taking the position of trading being the only logical solution.

I get it, I've made the argument plenty of times that guys like Sale and Crochet probably should have been kept long term, but we knew ownership wouldn't sign them to a big deal, so because of that the only option to get any value for the player is to trade them. I guess I'm just tired of rooting for an organization like that. We should hold them to a higher standard. You potentially have a 26 year old star, a guy that picked your franchise, a guy that most scouts seemingly were wrong about, and the Sox deserve credit for making an investment in him. But turning around and trading him for another couple of lottery tickets isn't where this franchise should be right now, especially as we are in Year 4 of the worst stretch of White Sox baseball in history.

When they signed him, the best case scenerio should have been "We were right, everyone else was wrong, we just found a middle of the order power hitter in his prime that can anchor our lineup for the next 5-6 years." Not "We were right, everyone else was wrong, we just found a middle of the order power hitter in his prime that we can trade to the highest bidder in a year"

I think you and many others hold them to this standard, I just think you know the reality of the end of this game. It absolutely sucks for all of us watching Sox players bloom in other organizations and knowing we had that IN ITS PRIME.

Jomboy affiliates already pushing for Murakami to Yankees

Go back to lip reading, nerds

I will be very surprised if they trade him during this season

I think Murakami is exactly the guy we should try to extend, and he’s just flawed enough that we might actually be able to.

12 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I think you and many others hold them to this standard, I just think you know the reality of the end of this game. It absolutely sucks for all of us watching Sox players bloom in other organizations and knowing we had that IN ITS PRIME.

THIS! We don't want to be talking about dealing him...but we also know JR isn't going to sign him to a monster deal (even by White Sox financial standards)! Either he is or isn't worth it...but unfortunately the clock is ticking! A 2 year window of time only allows the organization a few chances to capitalize on their investment. Ticket sales ain't doing it...so we will have to acquire talent in exchange for Murakami. I just feel with all the moving parts (trade deadline, labor issue in the off-season)...I think to truly get "something" for him...probably have to deal him sooner than later. Had he signed a traditional contract where we controlled him for 6 seasons...different story!

5 minutes ago, Lukakke Appling said:

I think Murakami is exactly the guy we should try to extend, and he’s just flawed enough that we might actually be able to.

Was thinking of a future infield last night of Mune-Bonemer-Roch-Colson-Teel

That would be awesome

23 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I like Mune’s gangster lean back when he really gets one

He has one of the prettiest swings and we all saw it right away in spring training. When he misses it's usually because he was fooled, not because he had a bad swing path.

9 minutes ago, Lukakke Appling said:

I think Murakami is exactly the guy we should try to extend, and he’s just flawed enough that we might actually be able to.

But it's the White Sox. If they are ready to be competitive and aggressive with their offer, then fine. If they are hoping for a discount, quit fooling themselves. Trade him for a haul.

4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

But it's the White Sox. If they are ready to be competitive and aggressive with their offer, then fine. If they are hoping for a discount, quit fooling themselves. Trade him for a haul.

If they can’t re-sign him, yeah trade him. But he isn’t an ace starter or a star shortstop. The Sox have been willing to pay for top talent at positions that don’t really demand top dollar. First base is one of those.

That would still require them to ~double their franchise contract record, so I definitely understand the skepticism.

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Also fun: 25 hits for....

12 homers

0 triples

0 doubles and

13 singles.

There are 238 players with 15+ hits this season, and Mune is the only one of them with 0 doubles or triples.

1 hour ago, Tony said:

At 26, given his hitting profile and position, he should have another 5-6 years of production at his current level. Not saying this HR pace will continue, we need to see more data, but given what we know at this point, I'm not comfortable taking the position of trading being the only logical solution.

I get it, I've made the argument plenty of times that guys like Sale and Crochet probably should have been kept long term, but we knew ownership wouldn't sign them to a big deal, so because of that the only option to get any value for the player is to trade them. I guess I'm just tired of rooting for an organization like that. We should hold them to a higher standard. You potentially have a 26 year old star, a guy that picked your franchise, a guy that most scouts seemingly were wrong about, and the Sox deserve credit for making an investment in him. But turning around and trading him for another couple of lottery tickets isn't where this franchise should be right now, especially as we are in Year 4 of the worst stretch of White Sox baseball in history.

When they signed him, the best case scenerio should have been "We were right, everyone else was wrong, we just found a middle of the order power hitter in his prime that can anchor our lineup for the next 5-6 years." Not "We were right, everyone else was wrong, we just found a middle of the order power hitter in his prime that we can trade to the highest bidder in a year"

I also think if I squint out 2 years - I see a team that should have the ability to compete - especially if you pair it with a new owner. But even if you don't - I think there should be a window where Muni is 28-32 and this team is playing very competitive baseball. So I don't think this team is like 4 years away where I would say, you know what, lets move on because we are still in the pure stack 3-1 moves to build up a better base for a sustainable run.

I'm not saying I have the upmost confidence in the above happening - but if I squint and even when I look at the first month - generally speaking I feel like outside of Quero taking a huge step back, this has been a pretty good 1st month from a rebuild:

Majors: Focusing only on guys I consider core to the long-term rebuild

Pitching

Martin - Really pitching well and looking solid and at least a medium term fit (could also move him and wouldn't argue it given where we are in rebuild and his years of control remaining)

Burke - Shows good stuff and fit as a mid - to - back of the rotation guy;

Grant Taylor - Elite FIP; Stuff strong - still developing but you can see a high end reliever; Also will caveat this is the type of guy that is a potential asset to move if you can get a high end outfield / position prospect (or starting prospect).

Rest of our rotation was never key to the LT success - if you got a hit with Kay or Fedde great, but they are back end guys at best.

Hitting:

Montgomery - Elite power and above average defense continues to show; Clear signs that he is trending to be a 3-4 WAR player with upside of a 5-6 WAR type player if he can be more consistent with the bat. Learn from Muni on the eye / patience, etc.

Vargas - Don't think he went up or down - but you are seeing improved power and eye. Avg low but OPS still serviceable and defense okay. Worse case you can squint and see a very useful elite utility guy and still some scenarios where he is a solid player surrounded with other good players.

Quero - Clearly took a nose dive; Probably the most disappointing 1st month of any player who was key to our rebuild. It is still 1 month and he was working through swing changes. Needs a reset. I also understand the nuances of learning your starting staff etc take a tole.

Teel - Injury impacted and stinks; But you can see progress - hopefully he is healthy by mid to late May and he gets another year under his belt further validating he has a floor of a top 7 catcher in this league.

Muni - Could not be off to a better start; Elite power / Elite eye with an ability to hit velo (which was the scouting report weakness); Swing and miss is real but with the other 2 attributes he looks to be a bopper in this lineup for a while (if you can sign him)

Meidroth - Solid player - worse case good bench guy; Low ceiling but he's a major league player and a very good bench guy on a high end team.

Antonacci - Jury is out - but lets see what he can do; Did well in minors and spring - small major league sample size but I wouldn't say anything bad relative to expectations but lots of questions.

Perreria - Off to a good start; Good buy low candidate that you can at least squint and see some potential; May not be anything but if he isn't good doesn't hurt - if he is good its gravy on top;

Acuna - Flawed player - but now is the time to give him at bats because he really isn't taking playing time away from people that critical.

Rest of the big league roster - they weren't long term players anyway.

Minors:

Pitching: Top 3 prospects all showing front of the rotation stuff

Schultz - Looks explosive and now up at the big league level - very evident he has elite stuff; whether he can pull it all together, who knows - but you see potential front line starter potential.

Hagen - Building up innings / pitch count (not perfect) - but no red flags right now outside of innings (which is a real one); Command improving and seems to be looking more like the guy they drafted; Work still remains;

McDougal - Same thing; Elite stuff; Production good; Expect he'll be up in MLB at some point this year.

Next Set - Oppor has been mixed; Would like to see another wave shine - and also curious to see what Thorpe can do when he gets back out there.

Hitting:

Montgomery - Continues to show the tools; Still has some question-marks but still showing high percentage upside; Overall outfield depth remains weak - would love to see this as a spot the club makes an impact signing over next 1-2 years.

Bonemer - Raking at a high level and continuing to show that he can be an impact player (I wouldn't call him elite - but looks like he has the makings of being a sustainable 3-4 WAR type of guy.

Slew of other Infield Prospects - They all seem to be doing a nice job;

1 hour ago, fathom said:

I will be very surprised if they trade him during this season

1 hour ago, Lukakke Appling said:

I think Murakami is exactly the guy we should try to extend, and he’s just flawed enough that we might actually be able to.

It could arguably be a new low for JR's ownership (and that's saying something) if they traded Mune midseason this year if he actually stays on pace to hit 60 HRs. Okay, not as low at the 1994 strike, but it would be very pathetic and would certainly be on the JR low-lights reel when he finally relinquishes ownership. Just another nail in the coffin for the fanbase the Sox hope to retain.

F*** the continuous quest for trading good players for more prospects. How well did the Chris Sale trade work out for us? The jury is still very much out on whether the Crochet trade will work out for us.

I get why people are saying this, but come on. Can we at least make it through the end of APRIL of his first season before we talk about flipping him?

Maybe JR could give him a backloaded long-term contract for 2028 and beyond since that might take them into the Isbhia era. Or maybe that's wishful thinking on my part.

Edited 3 hours ago3 hr by 77 Hitmen

The data on player aging is brutal. I think the data would honestly make it hard to justify giving a long contract extension to a player who you already have under contract through his age 28 season. Almost every skill is on the downslope for a typical player by that age when they aren't juicing. Of course, Mune may not have a typical age progression and/or he starts from such a high point that he's still worth the money even when he's begun declining.

That being said, a good agent for Mune would start the conversation at the 14 year, $500M deal given to Vladimir Guerrero at the same age. I'd be arguing that the NPB track record clearly carries over and therefore it would be a bargain to get a superior player in Mune at the mere $500M given to Vladdy. Of course, I don't see another 1B getting $500M anytime soon, but that's what I'd be asking for as his agent. Mune already got a nice big paycheck for 2 seasons so he's not risking ending up on the street or anything if things don't work out on the playing field going forward. So he might as well ask for...the moon.

Edited 4 hours ago4 hr by Jake

41 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Vargas - Don't think he went up or down - but you are seeing improved power and eye. Avg low but OPS still serviceable and defense okay. Worse case you can squint and see a very useful elite utility guy and still some scenarios where he is a solid player surrounded with other good players.

I think he's gone up. He's been worth 1 bWAR/.9 fWAR so far, which would be a 4.5 - 5 WAR pace if he keeps this up. His advanced hitting metrics are all really good, and his eye has improved. Given his age and mediocre defense he's probably a guy they should move, with Carlson, Bonemer and Roch on the way.

Yeah, I think you have to look at trading him. See if anybody will offer a haul. Our system still needs more high end talent.

In Vargas, Sox have a 26 year old under team control for a long time who is actually hitting. Maybe someday he has to get moved due to his limitations or due to getting closer to eventual free agency, but I wouldn't be making moves based on any of those other infielders until they actually get here. If Billy ever makes it, and I sure hope he does, it could realistically be in Vargas's free agent year. The most optimistic take on Caleb is that he could arrive as soon as next season but for now he's striking out at a 30% clip in A-ball so again I'm not eager to start moving one of the few bonafide major leaguers to make room for him yet. Roch hasn't yet been drafted, but I don't know what a realistic timeline for him will be. I assume the Sox will want to test him at least a little bit at the minor league level in 2027 (what happens after that would depend on the result of the "test"). These things tend to work themselves out. My gut feeling is we won't find ourselves lamenting how the Sox compiled too many good players.

No reason to rush to trade Vargas, as of now he's still got plenty of control and is an ascending player. He also seems to be a bit of a clubhouse leader and we do need that, it helps guys in ways we don't see, and while it might not mean much, it does make coming to work a better experience and that never hurts.

Bidet got good use after the game apparently

2 hours ago, Tony said:

At 26, given his hitting profile and position, he should have another 5-6 years of production at his current level. Not saying this HR pace will continue, we need to see more data, but given what we know at this point, I'm not comfortable taking the position of trading being the only logical solution.

I get it, I've made the argument plenty of times that guys like Sale and Crochet probably should have been kept long term, but we knew ownership wouldn't sign them to a big deal, so because of that the only option to get any value for the player is to trade them. I guess I'm just tired of rooting for an organization like that. We should hold them to a higher standard. You potentially have a 26 year old star, a guy that picked your franchise, a guy that most scouts seemingly were wrong about, and the Sox deserve credit for making an investment in him. But turning around and trading him for another couple of lottery tickets isn't where this franchise should be right now, especially as we are in Year 4 of the worst stretch of White Sox baseball in history.

When they signed him, the best case scenerio should have been "We were right, everyone else was wrong, we just found a middle of the order power hitter in his prime that can anchor our lineup for the next 5-6 years." Not "We were right, everyone else was wrong, we just found a middle of the order power hitter in his prime that we can trade to the highest bidder in a year"

I want to see him make the summer before I am convinced. There was a reason a lot of teams were not willing to get on him. Even now 1 in 3 trips ends in a K, and this is on his bender. Are you willing to bet a couple of hundred million dollars on this being who he is for the next six years, even with the red flags in his numbers? That's a tough call for me.

Anyone is tradable. Only Sox first baseman I couldn't see trading would have been prime Frank Thomas. Mune isn't Frank Thomas. Hope he becomes that impactful but right now it is still a small sample size. If we are debating or hesitating about it in two months, he has been really good which is great. Perhaps you approach about an extension though I don't see JR going there. If he continues to do well I might feel better about higher dollar and shorter term but I don't see JR doing that.

12 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

Anyone is tradable. Only Sox first baseman I couldn't see trading would have been prime Frank Thomas. Mune isn't Frank Thomas. Hope he becomes that impactful but right now it is still a small sample size. If we are debating or hesitating about it in two months, he has been really good which is great. Perhaps you approach about an extension though I don't see JR going there. If he continues to do well I might feel better about higher dollar and shorter term but I don't see JR doing that.

Isn't he? I mean, if Mune is hitting 50 dongs a year, that's some rarified air.

17 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I want to see him make the summer before I am convinced. There was a reason a lot of teams were not willing to get on him. Even now 1 in 3 trips ends in a K, and this is on his bender. Are you willing to bet a couple of hundred million dollars on this being who he is for the next six years, even with the red flags in his numbers? That's a tough call for me.

10 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

Anyone is tradable. Only Sox first baseman I couldn't see trading would have been prime Frank Thomas. Mune isn't Frank Thomas. Hope he becomes that impactful but right now it is still a small sample size. If we are debating or hesitating about it in two months, he has been really good which is great. Perhaps you approach about an extension though I don't see JR going there. If he continues to do well I might feel better about higher dollar and shorter term but I don't see JR doing that.

I'm not endorsing they sign him to an extension tomorrow. Think the sample size is too small, I'd like to work with some more historical evidence before making a long term investment.

I'm not debating about the "when" but instead the overall intent with the player, and overall direction of the team. He's 26. We're going on Year 4 of abysmal seasons. At what point does this team enter the "competitive window" so to speak? Lockout aside, when the Sox embarked on this full tear down in the 2023 offseason, I would have hoped by 2028, they were coming out the other side of it and ready to start trying to win. If Murakami is still doing this in July, signing him to a 4 year extension gets him to age 30/31, covering 2027-2028-2029-2030. Having a big LH power bat in the middle of the lineup is something every contending team would love to have. My hope is the Sox are one of those teams, not looking to trade it to a team actually trying to win. Lets be one of those teams for a change.

1 hour ago, almagest said:

I think he's gone up. He's been worth 1 bWAR/.9 fWAR so far, which would be a 4.5 - 5 WAR pace if he keeps this up. His advanced hitting metrics are all really good, and his eye has improved. Given his age and mediocre defense he's probably a guy they should move, with Carlson, Bonemer and Roch on the way.

fWAR has him much closer to a 6 projected number.

Big difference.

He's not $500 million, but $200-300 would be on the table with his marketing potential.

Sox are #30 by far in revenues.

Better figure out how to start taking advantage in the short term.

Whether it's 2008 Quentin or RoY Kittle or Baines, there's just something special about his plate appearances as a fan. You tune in specifically for them.

That's the definition of entertainment that maybe Colson and Teel don't have...it's simply unique and compelling.

Genuinely likeable...you root for the guy to make it after 29 teams basically rejected him. True underdog story for a Sox player to break through and garner this much attention from the national and Japanese/intl.media.

Not afraid of the big moments...seems to live for them, in fact.

Ohtani is modern day Babe Ruth, but Mune sure is something to behold.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by caulfield12

53 minutes ago, Jake said:

In Vargas, Sox have a 26 year old under team control for a long time who is actually hitting. Maybe someday he has to get moved due to his limitations or due to getting closer to eventual free agency, but I wouldn't be making moves based on any of those other infielders until they actually get here. If Billy ever makes it, and I sure hope he does, it could realistically be in Vargas's free agent year. The most optimistic take on Caleb is that he could arrive as soon as next season but for now he's striking out at a 30% clip in A-ball so again I'm not eager to start moving one of the few bonafide major leaguers to make room for him yet. Roch hasn't yet been drafted, but I don't know what a realistic timeline for him will be. I assume the Sox will want to test him at least a little bit at the minor league level in 2027 (what happens after that would depend on the result of the "test"). These things tend to work themselves out. My gut feeling is we won't find ourselves lamenting how the Sox compiled too many good players.

I don't think you need to trade Vargas any time soon, but as these other players move up through the minors he may end up the odd man out. I don't think he has the sustained 5+ WAR potential the rest of these guys have.

I think you have to trade him if there is a huge offer near the deadline only because I don't believe they would extend him for what his current projection is going to require.

You need to weigh the options here, because if you don't trade him in season you run the risk of missing the window to do it in the offseason if there is a lengthy work stoppage at the end of the season. They already know weather or not they will do what it takes to sign him to an extension, and I think if the answer is no were not willing to do it then you have to cash out on him.

I would just be pretty stunned if they signed anyone to a $200+ million dollar deal at any point over the next 2 years. And if you're not going to do that, then you might as well do what's best for the future of the franchise.