Queen Prawn Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 I do. But what that has to do with anything I fail to understand. And at this point they (the Sox) have not chosen not to meet anything. All we know is that they stopped talking. Maybe to concentrate on the season at hand..? Naaa.. that's a crazy idea. Considering Maggs/Maggs' Agent's statement about them going back to the original plan of exploring free agency, it doesn't sound like something as simple as "we'll concentrate on the season for now and resume talks later," but who knows with this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Considering Maggs/Maggs' Agent's statement about them going back to the original plan of exploring free agency, it doesn't sound like something as simple as "we'll concentrate on the season for now and resume talks later," but who knows with this team. That's kinda what I mean... They said early on that their plan was to explore their options. They said it. They initiated it. Why all the crappin on the Sox I don't understand. They can't make him sign. IMO, the only way Maggs stays is if the Sox make it deep into the playoffs if not the Series. He wants a ring. If it's not plausable here.. then of course he's going to go try to get it somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Let maggs walk. I dont care either. How about this lineup next year: Harris 2B Uribe SS Thomas DH Berkman RF Lee LF Konerko 1B Crede 3B Reed/Borch CF Olivo C I say forget Beltran and go for Berkman. The guy is an On Base and OPS machine. He's almost as good as frank was in his prime and hopefully his agents isnt boras (havent checked) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Let maggs walk. I dont care either. How about this lineup next year: Harris 2B Uribe SS Thomas DH Berkman RF Lee LF Konerko 1B Crede 3B Reed/Borch CF Olivo C I say forget Beltran and go for Berkman. The guy is an On Base and OPS machine. He's almost as good as frank was in his prime and hopefully his agents isnt boras (havent checked) The Astros won't trade them while they are in contention, even for next year too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 I was just wondering... Do you have inside information on "our financial situation"? Since you probably don't know anything about the Sox' financial situation, I don't understand your assumptions. The only thing we do know is that the Sox have apparently CHOSEN to not meet Magglio's demands. Maybe his demands are unreasonable or maybe the Sox feel more confident spending their money elsewhere. Or maybe the whole thing is a negotiating ploy. I'm surprised there are no direct quotes from Magglio himself that the negotiations have broken down. Whatever the reason, don't tell me it's because I don't understand their "financial situation" - as if you do. Have you seen our attendance compared to other MLB teams for the last 5 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 People look at the bright side of this, with Mags ($14M), Koch ($6.5M) and Jose ($5M) coming of the books thats $26M for Kenny to spend this offseason. Plus, with the Sox's increase in attendance and the additional revenue that will come from the new sports channel that number could be as high as $40M. Assuming Jerry dosne't pocket it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Have you seen our attendance compared to other MLB teams for the last 5 years? Don't forget to adjust attendance for 1/2 price, kids days and other promotions. Maggs is worth 13-14 Mill to the Mets, Dodgers, etc. But Sox can't pay 14 Mill over 5 years without deferred moneys. Maggs is not that good, he is a weak draw - not worth 20+ % of the payroll. Baseball 101. I wish some here would understand that there is very little difference between "can't pay" and "won't pay". The spending philosophy has been firmly in place for a while now; shareholders have their own motives and considerations. They have spoken, the budget is set - whether it be 45 Mill in some years and 60-65 Mill in others. These people do NOT want to win. The ONLY way JR-headed investment group would approve a higher payroll is if they see a high likelyhood of making a huge, Cubs-style profit in the process. And given how moody and cheap Sox fans have proven themselves to be, it's just not worth the risk. They'd rather not reach for the stars and just be content with the money they make off the Sox now. Not an ideal way of running a major league franchise? Yeah, but the hard-core business people aren't too preoccupied with the team's long-term future. Only SOX FANS spending their hearts out on consistent bases can save the Sox at this point. Pack the house, spend a ton on concessions and merchandise, double television/radio ratings - in short become Cub-like. THEN, you'll see payroll slowly inching toward 80 Mill mark. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 People look at the bright side of this, with Mags ($14M), Koch ($6.5M) and Jose ($5M) coming of the books thats $26M for Kenny to spend this offseason. Plus, with the Sox's increase in attendance and the additional revenue that will come from the new sports channel that number could be as high as $40M. Assuming Jerry dosne't pocket it. MOre money for JR's pockets! :fyou Reinsdorf!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Oh yeah? Let's compare: Now - Im comparing Magglio Ordonez and Vladimir Guerrero, and take the fact that Vlad played on a pretty bad team in Montreal, yet put up these great numbers (2003): Average: Vlad: .330 Maggs: .317 Vlad wins. OBP: Vlad: .426 Maggs: .380 Vlad wins. RBIs Vlad: 79 (In about 200 less ABs than Maggs) Maggs: 99 Maggs wins (But it's a skewed win.) HRs Vlad: 25 Maggs: 29 Maggs wins, but again, skewed. Now Vlad is on a much better team with Anahiem, and right now he is hitting .345, with 15 HRs and 51 RBIs. Don't try telling me Maggs is 'comparable' to Vlad - not even close. I'd take Vlad seven days a week and twice on Sunday... Point is, Maggs not worth 14 million a year. EDIT: For the above comparison, I guess I'd have to say all of the catagories are skewed in a way, because Vlad had 200 less ABs... So then, in your opinion, how much is Ordonez worth per season? What player(s) do you compare him with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 what continues to strike me as fascinating is the fact that all of our concerns are with Magglio when JR and Maggs' agent have been millions of dollars off, all the while we have Esteban Loaiza whos been just as important, if not more important to this White Sox team this season and last becoming eligible for free agency too. It's stupid. Let Magglio walk, pick up two draft picks, sign Loaiza. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 I just can't stand watching teams throw money at players. Look at how many players got big paychecks and did nothing: Chan Ho Park, Higginson, Greg Vaugn, Mo Vaugn. f*** this overpaying s***. Another key note, Seattle said good bye to three future hall of famers Griffey, Rodriguez and Johnson and they actually got better. Money doesn't win games, real players win games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 on and on we just keep on crying. I don't care about next season when I am in the middle of a pennant race. Who the f*** cares about next year. if he signs he signs if he doesn't he doesn't. If he doesn't sign we will get others who will and we will compete. Many folks going into this year were all down on the sox that they would suck this year because we lost 5 or 6 guys from last year. Well we don't suck. Maggs could get injured again when he comes back. Many folks were dead set on not trading Maggs for griffey last year. (last years rumor) Well, Griffey is doing great and is under contract for the next 3 or 4 years at less money than Magglio is asking. That's how it goes folks. So lets not sweat this. The guy could break his leg after he gets back or he could be great. If he is great, then we should be in the playoffs. If we are in the playoffs we should be happy..But we probably won't be because we will worry whether this guy wants 14 or 15 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 I'd hate to be Kenny Williams right now. He's under a lot of pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 every GM is under pressure in there own way. We could be Kansas City right now. They spent alot more money this year and they have nothing to show for it. That GM is under pressure to trade his people. Rowand Gone, Cotts Gone, Reed or Borchard Gone, Diaz or rauch gone. All these guys will be looked at for trade bait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 I'd hate to be Kenny Williams right now. He's under a lot of pressure. KW has no pressure...all he has to do is keep kissing Reinsdorf's ass, and "towing the company line" and he'll keep his job for as long as he wants to. (See Jerry Krause!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Minnesota wins this division without $85 million. And when was the last WS winner out of the Central? Put us in the East and we'd never even dream of a playoff spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 KW has no pressure...all he has to do is keep kissing Reinsdorf's ass, and "towing the company line" and he'll keep his job for as long as he wants to. (See Jerry Krause!) His job is to get the right players to do the right job within a budget. Same as with other companies in the US. Get the most out of your workers at the least amount of pay. All companies do it. ALL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 And when was the last WS winner out of the Central? Put us in the East and we'd never even dream of a playoff spot. So what its irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniBob72 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 MOre money for JR's pockets! :fyou Reinsdorf!!! Guys that can afford to own baseball teams didn't get to that position by throwing good money after bad into the garbage. I've made my feelings known in the past about the Sox's budget. It is what it is for a reason. No use in flipping the bird on a message board about it. Personally, I am not losing much sleep over Maggs. Money not spent on him can be spent elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 s***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 So then, in your opinion, how much is Ordonez worth per season? What player(s) do you compare him with? I'd compare him to Bobby Abreu. I said this earlier. I'd give him five years for sixty million. Take it or leave it. IIRC, Bobby Abreu makes right around ten million a year, and, Brando posted the stats in one of these threads, they were pretty damn similar to Maggs numbers. 12 million a year should be enough for Mags, IMO. But I guess he feels differently though. But, like quick said - let's worry about this years pennant race and how we can improve THIS team, not about next year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Guys that can afford to own baseball teams didn't get to that position by throwing good money after bad into the garbage. I've made my feelings known in the past about the Sox's budget. It is what it is for a reason. No use in flipping the bird on a message board about it. Personally, I am not losing much sleep over Maggs. Money not spent on him can be spent elsewhere. I totally agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Some of you are so funny. JR is NOT the "boss". He is the "chairman" elected to be the voice. He doesn't make the decisions on payroll. It's a vote. He isn't even (close to being) the majority shareholder. There are several others with double the holdings than he has. The only reason he was chosen is because he was already in the public eye with owning the Bulls. And red&white.. how did you become aware that JR and Magg's agent are so far off in $$'s? How do you know that JR is even involved this early in negotiations..? And how about the fact that Maggs himself denied rumors of a deal..? Magg's a liar..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 MOre money for JR's pockets! :fyou Reinsdorf!!! :headshake :banghead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 I realize every gm has pressure. But this Magglio situation is different. We need pitching. Everybody wants Reed or Borchard. Yet those are our main replacements for, Maggs. So he's kind of in a no win situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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