Some shake-up to occur?

[fathom]

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines

[iWiN4PreP]

hmm

intresting

moving tadahito back to second in the order - i have no problem with. Because he blossomed so well there last year.

 

Cotts as closer? Intresting aswell. Just if jenks goes off the map.. it just KILLS our relievers. What a terrible mess...

 

Thome not playing first I have no problem with. Thats completely understood. I really want to see him hit a homer.. I been waiting all spring for it. Right now I have some minor worries about thome with the current minor injury, and how he hasnt hit a homer yet.

[fathom]

Cotts as closer? Intresting aswell. Just if jenks goes off the map.. it just KILLS our relievers. What a terrible mess...

 

 

Quite simply, our bullpen is in shambles right now. Cotts is a risky closer, as there are still some games where his control isn't around the plate. Jenks isn't a guarantee to even be an average MLB pitcher this year if he can't get his mechanics/control in gear. We've been saying all spring that there's a lot of time to work things out, but these moves by Ozzie seem like he's getting worried.

 

Can't we just put the greatest closer in World Series history in our bullpen? Mr. Mark Buehrle, of the perfect save pct. in the WS.

[fathom]

Also, am I the only one who thinks Cintron could be a better number 2 hitter than Iguchi or Uribe this season? Just some thoughts.

[RME JICO]

I am not worried about Thome, he has 9 walks and 9 hits compared to 5 K's. The HR's will come. He is more worried about timing right now.

 

I am concerned about Jenks, he seems to have lost a bit of his control. Cotts would do fine in the Closer role, but I think Jenks will come around. Either way you have to be a little concerned at this point in ST.

 

Gooch really needs to break out of his funk. It almost seems like they are giving him one more shot to improve his hitting before bringing in Cintron, who has 2 more hits than Gooch in 26 less AB's during ST.

[Flash Tizzle]

I'll guarantee this lapse in control is due to Jenks coming to camp out of shape. Some days he'll throw 96-97, others--such as today--92-93. He may not be fully ready by the beginning of the year, and that's a shame.

 

He damn well better learn from this experience next offseason. This team can't afford to not rely on someone as valuabe as he is.

Edited March 23, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[iWiN4PreP]

agreed.

 

I wonder about cintron > tadahito aswell. That story will be a long issue through spring.

 

You know, someone who has been great for us? Joe Crede. You'd think he'd be the one talking about putting on the bench for cintron, but crede has done a pretty dam good job IMO.

 

On the thome part, thats true i suppose, his timing does need some work, I saw him today take some good, GOOD swings on the ball, but just missing. So good point. =).

[RME JICO]

I'll guarantee this lapse in control is due to Jenks coming to camp out of shape. Some days he'll throw 96-97, others--such as today--92-93. He may not be fully ready by the beginning of the year, and that's a shame.

 

He damn well better learn from this experience next offseason. This team can't afford to not rely on someone as valuabe as he is.

I agree. Hopefully he can work it out over the next week or so.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I think it's ironic that the guy everybody was worried about in this flip-flop experiment (Uribe) has turned out to be the guy thats done a solid job. I still think Gooch will be fine in the long run.

 

I'm totally with Ozzie concerning Thome. There's absolutely no reason for him to play first base.

 

As far as Jenks goes, I still think he's in the process of building his arm back up. And Tizzle makes a good point in that Bobby's shaky control of late can be attributed to his lack of conditioning.

Edited March 23, 2006 by Jordan4life_2006

[southsideirish71]

I'll guarantee this lapse in control is due to Jenks coming to camp out of shape. Some days he'll throw 96-97, others--such as today--92-93. He may not be fully ready by the beginning of the year, and that's a shame.

 

He damn well better learn from this experience next offseason. This team can't afford to not rely on someone as valuabe as he is.

 

 

This is also about lighting a fire under his ample ass. He is young, came into camp out of shape, thought the job was his. Well under Ozzie, you should realize that none of that is guarented.

[DBAHO]

This is also about lighting a fire under his ample ass.  He is young, came into camp out of shape, thought the job was his.  Well under Ozzie, you should realize that none of that is guarented.

I don't mind Ozzie playing mind games like this, but there's no way Cotts should become our closer, just because Bobby's out of shape a little.

 

Bobby needs work, he'll get some more of it, and as the last 2 seasons have shown with Koch and Takatsu, if the closer is struggling a month in, then you can make a change. Cotts has been so successful as a set-up guy.

 

As for Iguchi and Uribe, well Iguchi's gotta hit better no doubt. But I wouldn't want to move Uribe away from the #2 spot, when he's done nothing wrong in ST so far. If he produces there, and Iguchi is still struggling, then you can move Gooch further down the order, when you've got A.J and Crede hitting below him. Of course Cintron gives you an extra option as well.

 

And the Thome playing no first base except for an emergency is a no brainer. That's why Ross Gload is the 25th man and why Bucky Jacbosen is down in Charlotte.

[qwerty]

I don't mind Ozzie playing mind games like this, but there's no way Cotts should become our closer, just because Bobby's out of shape a little.

 

Bobby needs work, he'll get some more of it, and as the last 2 seasons have shown with Koch and Takatsu, if the closer is struggling a month in, then you can make a change. Cotts has been so successful as a set-up guy.

 

As for Iguchi and Uribe, well Iguchi's gotta hit better no doubt. But I wouldn't want to move Uribe away from the #2 spot, when he's done nothing wrong in ST so far. If he produces there, and Iguchi is still struggling, then you can move Gooch further down the order, when you've got A.J and Crede hitting below him. Of course Cintron gives you an extra option as well.

 

And the Thome playing no first base except for an emergency is a no brainer. That's why Ross Gload is the 25th man and why Bucky Jacbosen is down in Charlotte.

 

Why shouldn't cotts become our closer? He is far and away our best pitcher in the pen at this point... yes i know mccarthy and 100 mile an hour fastball is in there. I said it before and i still believe it... he will be the more succesful of the two, jenks and cotts. Didn't i read that jenks has like nine walks to two strike outs? Awful ratio whether he is in ''shape'' or not. He has been brutal from the little bit i have seen of him. 30 saves is still a stretch in my opinion and i have seen people predict as many as 45.

 

Iguchi was a solid two hole hitter for us last year. I still think soxtalk overates him because of his situation (coming over from japan) and being plopped right into the starting line-up. I think ozzie is even crazier for saying he was the team mvp... it is simply incorrect. Iguchi's defense is nothing to spectacular either... his attempt at turning a double play is always amusing to watch.

 

I thought thome was gonna be playing first a couple times a week? What everyone kept saying...

[DBAHO]

Why shouldn't cotts become our closer? He is far and away our best pitcher in the pen at this point... yes i know mccarthy and 100 mile an hour fastball is in there. I said it before and i still believe it... he will be the more succesful of the two, jenks and cotts. Didn't i read that jenks has like nine walks to two strike outs? Awful ratio whether he is in ''shape'' or not. He has been brutal from the little bit i have seen of him. 30 saves is still a stretch in my opinion and i have seen people predict as many as 45.

If it ain't broke, don't need to change anything. In my mind, until Jenks can't prove in the regular season that he's not fit for the closer's job, don't need to make a move there. People take too much into ST stats still.

 

You move Cotts from the set-up role, then all of a sudden you've got Jenks who you've demoted cos he's not pitching well in ST, a balky Dustin Hermanson, and Cliff Politte who a lot of people think won't be as good as he was in 2005.

 

Iguchi was a solid two hole hitter for us last year. I still think soxtalk overates him because of his situation (coming over from japan) and being plopped right into the starting line-up. I think ozzie is even crazier for saying he was the team mvp... it is simply incorrect. Iguchi's defense is nothing to spectacular either... his attempt at turning a double play is always amusing to watch.

 

Well at least Iguchi didn't turn into Kaz Matsui v2.0 for us. He needs to cut down on the K's of course, but I still want to see how Uribe can handle himself in the #2 hole, he did pretty well there in the 1st half of 2004. Whether Iguchi will be back with us in 2007, I don't know. Needs a good season so that we will pick up his option.

 

I thought thome was gonna be playing first a couple times a week? What everyone kept saying...

If they kept Borch instead of Gload, that would probably happen. At least it's better to be safe than sorry I suppose.

[qwerty]

If it ain't broke, don't need to change anything. In my mind, until Jenks can't prove in the regular season that he's not fit for the closer's job, don't need to make a move there. People take too much into ST stats still.

 

You move Cotts from the set-up role, then all of a sudden you've got Jenks who you've demoted cos he's not pitching well in ST, a balky Dustin Hermanson, and Cliff Politte who a lot of people think won't be as good as he was in 2005.

 

I am not saying start the season with cotts as the closer... but i think it is pretty inevitable. Jenks almost always looks shaky to me... especially against right handers. He needs to reverse the batting average against when it comes to right handers and left handers... right handers lit him up... and you face right handers at least 80% of the time.

[Wedge]

On his best days, when he's hitting 100 MPH, Jenks is the best pitcher we have, bar none. In the playoffs last year, he was killer because tired hitters couldn't catch up to his fast ball. Look at the at-bat against Bagwell when Bagwell just couldn't catch up to the ball. However, he needs his best stuff to be supremely effective and as a result, I suspect he will have trouble with his consistency, which is critical as an everyday closer (if we're as good as expected, we'd probably need him 4 days out of every 7). Cotts is probably the better option right now.

 

That said, with a playoff game on the line, I'd be happy sending either out if they're both rested.

[whitesoxfan101]

Gooch back to the 2 hole doesn't surprise me, but damn the reason why sure does. Thome as a 1B only in emergency situations doesnt' surprise me either, that's still enough of him playing 1B to get Paulie a rest once in a while. As for Cotts.....I don't mind only having 1 reliable lefty in the pen, but I DO mind it if we are using him as our closer. Get your s*** together ASAP Bobby.

[qwerty]

On his best days, when he's hitting 100 MPH, Jenks is the best pitcher we have, bar none. In the playoffs last year, he was killer because tired hitters couldn't catch up to his fast ball. Look at the at-bat against Bagwell when Bagwell just couldn't catch up to the ball. However, he needs his best stuff to be supremely effective and as a result, I suspect he will have trouble with his consistency, which is critical as an everyday closer (if we're as good as expected, we'd probably need him 4 days out of every 7). Cotts is probably the better option right now.

 

That said, with a playoff game on the line, I'd be happy sending either out if they're both rested.

 

When he is hitting 100 he does it for a couple batters, sometimes even an entire inning. The next inning he will pop it at 98 one or twice and the be in the 96-97 mile an hour range. While you would think that is still plenty fast... he doesn't look like the same pitcher when out there for multiple innings. Bagwell against jenks was no fair fair... bagwell was having trouble to catch up to every thing above 94-95 after he came off the dl. Everyone knew if jenks threw strikes he was gonna make bagwell look silly. Over a full season i see jenks wearing down... whenever he pitches on back to back days... his velocity and stuff doesn't look the same... contrary to what the results may have presented last season.

 

I don't know why he is considered to have the best stuff/be out best pitcher because he can hit triple digits.

[whitesoxfan101]

When he is hitting 100 he does it for a couple batters, sometimes even an entire inning.  The next inning he will pop it at 98 one or twice and the be in the 96-97 mile an hour range. While you would think that is still plenty fast... he doesn't look like the same pitcher when out there for multiple innings. Bagwell against jenks was no fair fair... bagwell was having trouble to catch up to every thing above 94-95 after he came off the dl. Everyone knew if jenks threw strikes he was gonna make bagwell look silly. Over a full season i see jenks wearing down... whenever he pitches on back to back days... his velocity and stuff doesn't look the same... contrary to what the results may have presented last season.

 

I don't know why he is considered to have the best stuff/be out best pitcher because he can hit triple digits.

 

Well said sir, although I think if Jenks works on his other pitchers and polishes them he can be a long term success as a closer. Even when he's tired he throws 95 and combine that with a nasty hammer and a change, and your onto something.

[Wanne]

Also, am I the only one who thinks Cintron could be a better number 2 hitter than Iguchi or Uribe this season?  Just some thoughts.

 

No...I do to. I like Uribe at the bottom of the order where he was. This could play out well with somebody on Gooch's ass for playing time.

[DBAHO]

No...I do to.  I like Uribe at the bottom of the order where he was.  This could play out well with somebody on Gooch's ass for playing time.

You probably saw Cintron back when he had his good season back in 2003 was it?

 

He could actually be a good #2 hitter if he was given the chance. He doesn't strike out a lot, and moving to the Cell can only help.

[beck72]

Re: Jenks

If he was hurt, that would be more of a concern. He couldn't throw his curve ball for strikes. That should come around

 

Re: Iguchi

He should top his .278 avg from 2005. He'll be fine, whether he hits in the #2 hole or lower. With Cintron around, Iguchi will get a lot of rest.

[Felix]

Wasn't there a quote just the other day saying Iguchi would stay in the 6 spot, or am I imagining things?

[SnB]

I am not saying start the season with cotts as the closer... but i think it is pretty inevitable. Jenks almost always looks shaky to me... especially against right handers. He needs to reverse the batting average against when it comes to right handers and left handers... right handers lit him up... and you face right handers at least 80% of the time.

cotts is about the closest thing we have to a solid reliever right now. What I saw in jenks yesterday was pure garbage. I wouldn't be suprised at all to see cotts be the closer either to start the season or a few weeks into it.

[SSH2005]

Wasn't there a quote just the other day saying Iguchi would stay in the 6 spot, or am I imagining things?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That was a Scott Merkin article. Obviously, things have changed since then.

 

I had a feeling Thome wouldn't be playing much 1B, if any at all. He is our best hitter and it's probably not worth the risk of playing him there. I wouldn't want to lose his ability to draw a ton of walks in front of Konerko and Dye for any amount of time.

 

Jenks has looked awful so far this spring. I'm not concerned about his velocity -- I wouldn't want him throwing all out in meaningless ST games. But his control is downright garbage right now. He can't seem to even find the strike zone (8.0 IP, 8 BB, 2 K)

 

Regardless of this latest news, we still need another reliever who can throw strikes. Matt Thornton is not that guy. I'm not too concerned with Boone Logan. If he fails, Javier Lopez looks like he could be a decent enough LOOGY fallback plan at Charlotte. Having one unproven guy like Logan is one thing, but having both Logan AND Thornton in the bullpen is not really a recipe for success.

Edited March 23, 2006 by SSH2005

[SSH2005]

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...t=.jsp&c_id=cws

Sophomore Jenks? Closer struggling

Second-year fireman struggling to find rhythm

 

By Scott Merkin / MLB.com

 

TUCSON, Ariz. -- If Bobby Jenks' performance Wednesday against the Rockies repeats itself again in two weeks, once the regular season is under way against Cleveland at U.S. Cellular Field, then manager Ozzie Guillen might have a little cause for concern.

 

But as of Wednesday evening, Guillen's finger stayed a safe distance away from the panic button.

 

Jenks entered the Cactus League contest against the Rockies in the eighth inning, protecting a 3-1 lead for Mark Buehrle, and appeared to work his way out of trouble when Matt Holliday lined out to shortstop Juan Uribe with runners on second and third and one out. But Jamey Carroll followed with a single to center, scoring two and tying the game at 3, and Yorvit Torrealba laced the game-winning double down the right-field line after Jenks walked Ian Stewart.

 

Wednesday's official box score showed one inning of work for the White Sox closer, with four hits and four runs allowed. The official totals for Jenks' last four outings are four innings pitched and seven runs allowed on eight hits and six walks. Jenks has fanned just one over that period.

 

So, how did Jenks interpret the rough showing?

 

"It was work," said the 25-year-old Jenks, looking as calm and cool as if he had just struck out the side on nine pitches. "I'm starting to find my control. I'm not as wild, I guess you can say.

 

"As soon as we get into midseason form, the fastball will be there. But now is the time to really start locating it."

 

Much has been made recently of Jenks' fastball, which topped out at 101 mph last year in Kansas City. One report out of The Rocky Mountain News last weekend said that Jenks' heater had dropped by 10 mph and that he wasn't throwing as free and easy, according to scouts.

 

Jenks refuted the huge disparity in his fastball, adding the caveat that maybe he was judged on a day when he was working on his changeup or throwing a cutter or two that didn't cut. That story also delivered a new dose of reality to Jenks, who no longer will be the surprise sensation popping up on the Major League scene to close out the American League Central, the Division Series and the four-game World Series sweep of the Astros.

 

Now, he is Bobby Jenks, the still somewhat inexperienced closer for the defending champion. He is Bobby Jenks, a big man with power, if he continues to succeed, but Bobby Jenks, a heavier-set pitcher, if he falters, by Guillen's description.

 

It's a point that Guillen and pitching coach Don Cooper tried to stress to Jenks over the weekend, in what Jenks called his "big-league talk." The duo explained that everything Jenks does will be under more intense scrutiny -- even a slight weight gain entering Spring Training.

 

Guillen reiterated a second message to Jenks both before and after Wednesday's contest. This speech had more to do with his approach on the mound and turning a blind eye to the radar gun.

 

"Obviously, of course, the velocity is there," said Guillen of Jenks. "But I talked to him early in this spring and before the last outing that I don't want 97 or 98 mph. I want strikes.

 

"If you are behind hitters, I don't care how good you are or how hard you throw. You are going to get hurt. I expect him to throw more strikes and attack the strike zone a little more."

 

After walking Stewart during Wednesday's fateful eighth inning, Guillen strolled to the mound to make sure Jenks was physically sound. Jenks, who has had previous arm problems in his career, feels great presently.

 

The only minor issue for Jenks is getting ready for the upcoming campaign as a reliever, when every prior season, leading to his arrival with the White Sox in 2005, featured the burly right-hander as a starter. Jenks said Wednesday that he will get more innings and more pitches to work with the rest of spring in order to build up his arm a little quicker.

 

That change could mean coming in earlier during a particular game or having Jenks throw both the eighth and ninth innings. Jenks also is buoyed by a natural calmness that allows him to let go of a bad outing such as Wednesday's in a moment's time.

 

"I know I'm going to have a chance the next day," Jenks said. "You always want to have a good one, and it's a little bit frustrating. But Spring Training is for work."

 

What option does Guillen have if Jenks' spring struggles play out during the regular season, especially with doubt still surrounding the condition of Dustin Hermanson's back? Left-hander Neal Cotts looks to be Guillen's choice, with Cotts even throwing the final inning Wednesday. Cotts, 26, held left-handed hitters to a .206 average in 2005, but also held righties to a miniscule .155 average.

 

Then again, Guillen is not panicking. An outing like Wednesday's against the Indians or the Twins might cause Guillen to change that relaxed outlook. A couple of appearances like Wednesday from Jenks might cause Guillen to change his closer.

 

"Yeah, that's always there," said Jenks of understanding that the closer's job is not guaranteed to him simply because of his 2005 dominance. "But I want the job, so I'm going to do everything I can to get it."

 

"I'm not the type of manager who says you are my closer," added Guillen, who has featured four closers in two seasons as manager. "You are going to be my closer by my gut feeling. I'm not worried about it right now. I'm not panicking. I don't care what people do here, as long as they are healthy. I just expect [Jenks] to throw more strikes."