SS71 is right. I apoligize in advanced to those I am offending, but to me, its the truth. The people that dont, or didnt watch this team on a regular basis now, and in 2005 really cant speak with much valididty to the subject.

 

There are MANY that were able to see a few games here and there, and when the playoffs came on, all they saw we highlights of Rowand making diving grabs, and how he was a "Grinder"

 

I know many can't watch every game, and I understand that 100%. But with that, dont make claims like you understand everything that is going on, because that just can't be true without seeing these guys play with own eyes.

Presumably, you mean that in seeing the games you learn more. Fine, but use what you learned as the argument, not just the fact that you watched it. That just isn't relevant for anything.

 

All due respect, Tony, you do know what you're talking about, but I've known people who listened to games on the radio for most of their lives who could talk about their team equally capably.

I'm still searching for quotes, but before any moves were made, I had identified the 4 players who were the most easily replacable assets the Sox had from the 2005 squad who were still under Sox control as Rowand, Marte, El Duque, and Vizcaino.

 

Those were the 4 players any smart GM would have had the foresight to move while attempting to make the '05 White Sox better. That's exactly who KW moved. The moves may not have worked out how you wanted them to, but they were the right trading chips to use. Kenny identified the players

 

But, I also saw the bullpen meltdown coming from last November.Of course, I didn't foresee all of them being worse than league average in '06. I only expected they would be average-to-slightly-above-average, so I didn't really feel that acquiring much bullpen help was necessary.

 

Rowand was a player a year removed from a 900 OPS season, and months removed from gaining a reputation as one of the best defensive CFers in baseball. But he was also an automatic out on sliders low-and-away and was jamming himself on anything on the inner half trying to compensate. He was cheap and overvalued on the open market with a number of clubs looking to improve their CF positions.

 

From the Sox perspective, there was no reason to believe that Brian Anderson couldn't replace Rowand's prodigious 6-4-3 total while generally looking feeble at the plate, which, if you'll remember, is pretty much what you got at the plate from Rowan in '05. If you want to argue that Rowand's departure hurt the Sox because they lost defense, you'd be right, but your anger should not be directed at Williams, rather Ozzie, who continued to play a utility player/corner outfielder in his place.

 

Rowand was also used to fill the Sox most glaring hole in '05. They didn't have a #3 hitter, as those players combined to post a sub .300 OBP, and needed to add OBP and some left-handed pop to their line-up. It was either Thome or Delgado, and Delgado didn't want to come to Chicago.

 

Williams did his job about as well as can be expected. He may not have made all the right moves, but he had sound reasoning behind every single one of them. He's not the reason the Sox are watching the playoffs on TV right now. Crappy starting pitching, which Williams tried to guard against with the acquisition of Vazquez, our two best arms in the bullpen being hurt -- yet refusing to admit the obvious -- and the offense going in the crapper down the stretch are the three biggest reasons that we're not in the playoffs.

 

If you want to argue that Rowand's departure hurt the Sox because they lost defense, you'd be right, but your anger should not be directed at Williams, rather Ozzie, who continued to play a utility player/corner outfielder in his place.

 

Are you saying Oz should have continued to play BA who hit in the .220s and give

him 550 at bats?

He didn't have anybody besides the horrible Mack to play in place of Brian.

So how is that Oz's fault. I guess you think he shoulda played BA every day, cause

who else was there??

 

I understand what those who dislike me are saying. My main point is, being an

Ozzie backer like I am, and having to endure the many threads of how he

was misusing Brandon McC and Anderson all year ... I was wanting to give

some of it back to KW.

Rather than just congratulate Frank on his killer season and opening game

of the postseason I think it's fair to ask why the f*** he's not still winning

games for the White Sox?

And if you make that argument like I am, then I have to have Thome not

be on the team and if Thome is not on the team, Rowand is, and Rowand

you have to admit is right now better than Anderson???

What is so moronic about those sentiments??

 

I know why KW did some of the things he did, I also know why Oz did the things

he did. He thinks Anderson is either a stiff or not ready.

I think my rip of KW is just as justified when a team like the defending

champs does not at least earn the wildcard.

 

Thanks to tony for keeping this sybil, I mean civil.

Edited October 4, 200619 yr by greg775

Are you saying Oz should have continued to play BA who hit in the .220s and give

him 550 at bats?

They might not be in the playoffs, but they'd be 2-3 games better, maybe more.

 

Mackowiak was that bad in CF.

 

In retrospect, we were one serious Scott Podsednik injury from the playoffs. -- A lineup with Gload/Ozuna/Mackowiak in LF and Anderson in CF would have been an upgrade offensively, and (most of the time) defensively.

When you look back at last year's team with a seriously critical eye it's funny to see just how much they overachieved. I honestly have no idea how that team was able to play about 8 wins over their Pythagorean record like they did. I suppose it has to do with how weak the division and league in general was last season. I can't imagine just how far out of the playoffs the '05 Sox roster would finish in '06 likely somewhere around 10 GB or possibly worse. What a charmed bunch of bastards those guys were.

When you look back at last year's team with a seriously critical eye it's funny to see just how much they overachieved. I honestly have no idea how that team was able to play about 8 wins over their Pythagorean record like they did. I suppose it has to do with how weak the division and league in general was last season. I can't imagine just how far out of the playoffs the '05 Sox roster would finish in '06 likely somewhere around 10 GB or possibly worse. What a charmed bunch of bastards those guys were.

 

Seriously, we won a World Series with Willie Harris, Timo Perez, and Jurassic.

Seriously, we won a World Series with Willie Harris, Timo Perez, and Jurassic.

None of it makes any sense. Timo Perez had 64 AB in the leadoff spot where he posted a .518 OPS + 0 SB. During another point in the season Timo picked up 2 GP at 1B and 9 AB in the 3 hole. Such things should never happen. If anyone ever wonders at all why Timo was such a whipping boy of the fans, just go ahead and take a gander at these little tidbits. Championship teams don't put a player as horrible as Timo Perez in situations like that which makes 2005 all the more confusing.

None of it makes any sense. Timo Perez had 64 AB in the leadoff spot where he posted a .518 OPS + 0 SB. During another point in the season Timo picked up 2 GP at 1B and 9 AB in the 3 hole. Such things should never happen. If anyone ever wonders at all why Timo was such a whipping boy of the fans, just go ahead and take a gander at these little tidbits. Championship teams don't put a player as horrible as Timo Perez in situations like that which makes 2005 all the more confusing.

 

You can't calculate intangibles...

Don't know if your being sarcastic, but I think the 05 team makes the playoffs. I'm referring to the way the 05 team played, not referring to the 05 roster.

 

Specifically I think we all know that the 06 team would win well over 100 games if our pitching staff pitched like it did last year, if not 110 plus games.

You can't calculate intangibles...

Such as having a horseshoe placed firmly up a team's collective ass.

 

Don't know if your being sarcastic, but I think the 05 team makes the playoffs. I'm referring to the way the 05 team played, not referring to the 05 roster.

 

Specifically I think we all know that the 06 team would win well over 100 games if our pitching staff pitched like it did last year, if not 110 plus games.

The '05 roster, not the '05 team. If the Sox had Contreras, Buehrle, Garland, Garica and El Duque in the starting rotation pitching like they did this year except with the '05 offense still in place, meaning Jurrasic, Timo, Blum and company would still be around. There ain't a chance in hell the '05 roster wins 90 games in 2006.

Such as having a horseshoe placed firmly up a team's collective ass.

The '05 roster, not the '05 team. If the Sox had Contreras, Buehrle, Garland, Garica and El Duque in the starting rotation pitching like they did this year except with the '05 offense still in place, meaning Jurrasic, Timo, Blum and company would still be around. There ain't a chance in hell the '05 roster wins 90 games in 2006.

No doubt about it. We'd have been lucky to win 80.

A lineup with Gload/Ozuna/Mackowiak in LF and Anderson in CF would have been an upgrade offensively, and (most of the time) defensively.

Those four guys would make a lousy AAA outfield.

Those four guys would make a lousy AAA outfield.

I dunno about that. In 2005, Gload's numbers in AAA: .364 .416 .657 1073. Anderson's #'s: .295 .360 .469 829.

Does anyone know if QuesTec is now a permanent fixture at the Cell or was that a one year thing?

Does anyone know if QuesTec is now a permanent fixture at the Cell or was that a one year thing?

 

 

It rotates. And thank god its gone.

Instead of watching the playoffs, I'm just watching my Sox dvd's from last season. I'm not sure if it makes me feel better or worse right now.....

Instead of watching the playoffs, I'm just watching my Sox dvd's from last season. I'm not sure if it makes me feel better or worse right now.....

 

Watch "Wait Til next Year" on HBO. I swear, it made me feel better and I'm not trying to be a Cubs hater.

Watch "Wait Til next Year" on HBO. I swear, it made me feel better and I'm not trying to be a Cubs hater.

 

I watched it. I laughed my ass off. I'm definitely a Cubs hater. It made me feel better, too.

Whatever happened to that guy, Jim, who used to post on here.

Did some of the calmer, more reasonable posters leave town?

That made me LOL

QUOTE(' date= @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 03:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If Brian Anderson can't put up a .666 OPS next season to match Willy Taveras's .666 OPS in 2005, I will eat my own pubic hairs. I'm more concerned with Anderson playing solid defense in center field and from most accounts he does.

dine in!!!

QUOTE(' date= @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since when is AVG the only good measure of a player's offense? OPS is a much better stat to measure a player's offensive capabilities. And I'd bet my left nut that Anderson puts up a higher OPS than Taveras's .666 OPS from last season.

Edited October 9, 200619 yr by santo=dorf

I own .....

 

2 White Sox blankets

2 White Sox clocks

5 White Sox Jerseys

2 White Sox Jersey Shirts

5-10 White Sox Hats

1 pair of White Sox pants

Hundreds of White Sox baseball cards

20+ White Sox game programs

4 or so White Sox T-Shirts

Several White Sox baseballs

Many autographed White Sox 8x10 photos

Mini WS trophy

3 White Sox DVDs

2 White Sox flags

2 White Sox bumper stickers

2 White Sox liscense plate frames

1 White Sox book (Sox and the City)

 

Those are all the things that came to mind off the top of my head. I think I'm obsessed.

Instead of watching the playoffs, I'm just watching my Sox dvd's from last season. I'm not sure if it makes me feel better or worse right now.....

It makes a lot of sense to watch that DVD now to deal with the pain of a failed Sox season. I just hope that Sox fans aren't still talking next year about how we won it all in '85. Nostalgia is great, but I don't like using past success as an excuse for present failure.

 

Unfortunately, I'm sure I'll still hear some apologists on this board talk about how the Sox are still "tired" and "hurt" next year, if we're not winning.

Whatever happened to that guy, Jim, who used to post on here.

Did some of the calmer, more reasonable posters leave town?

 

 

fixed

It rotates. And thank god its gone.

 

thanks, I've been trying to find that out for awhile. Hopefully it's on its way to Detroit and Minny...